Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[blackpowderpiper]

To follow up on Ashdigger's comments, there are many things of concern here. Having an undergraduate degree in structural engineering, the thought of designing anything right up to its failure point is frightening.

One would not calculate the potential maximum loads for a bridge and design that bridge to only hold those calculated loads. Typically, significant factors of safety are engineered into the final product.

For example, if I were designing a submersible craft that had an anticipated dive depth of 4000 meters, I would want it designed to handle pressures for maybe 1.5x to 2x that depth. Also, the craft is only as strong as the weakest part or component. I have no expertise at all in deep water diving, but a carbon fiber hull with the end cap epoxied in place seem a bit concerning.

At least from what I've read, the craft had not been properly tested at those depths with the maximum anticipated passenger load. Also, the fact that control of the vessel was via a wireless game controller without some type of secondary, hardwired redundant control system built in is also alarming.

Were there systems in place that would accurately measure and mitigate the levels of O2, CO2 and CO? If so, had these been properly tested and evaluated? They claimed to have life support systems for 96 hours. What was this based on? Was it ever put to the test?

Not learning from the lessons that have been written in blood by those who have gone before us is also of concern. Perhaps the CEO realized the push back he would have received from those who have expertise in the subject matter and decided to avoid their counsel.

At any rate, a tragic circumstance and chain of events. God bless all those involved.

 

[captpat]

captpat, the voice of experience. In Navy boot camp, submarine service was offered as a voluntary option. They pointed out that part of the training was being ejected from a water lock at the bottom of a very tall tower full of water and swimming to the top without a scuba tank. In other words, hold your breath for a long time or drown.

@mso489, this is partially correct, the tower is 110 feet tall and you enter it through a pressure chamber in the bottom. You don't swim (and you aren't ejected) to the surface it's more of a rocket ship ride due to the buoyancy of the Steinke hood (follow-on to the Momsen Lung) which is filled with air and takes a few seconds. Most importantly you don't hold your breath but rather a continuous exhale all the way to the surface. If you don't do that your lungs will explode like an overpressurized balloon. This should be familiar to scuba divers. Navy divers were positioned along the tower to stop someone if they stop exhaling on the way up. It was a fun ride ... after it was over.

 

[captpat]

Other aspects of submarine duty are that you don't get out into open air for long periods of time and the spaces are fairly restrictive, which would get a little claustrophobic over time even if you aren't prone to that ordinarily.

I think taller people are handicapped because of all the low hanging gear.

I don't think there were any guarantees, but I do believe the submarine service upgrades the food service so the crews eat really well. In my experience, Navy food in general is better than average, better than you get at a standard diner or cafeteria. I never had any complaints, and we had some really (really) long deployments. Though, of course, the coffee is terrible.

I always liked it on the mess decks when the bridge came over the speaker and said, "Stand by for heavy rolls." Meaning rough seas, but sounding like they meant the bread course.

We took on supplies by underway replenishment, moving fuel, supplies, and sometimes people across on a line (rope) and pulley. Because a power winch presents a danger to peoples' limbs, the power is supplied by the crew heave-ho'ing in a row on the ships weather decks. The supply ship is an oiler which is much bigger than the ships it supplies.

Well, the air is pretty well filtered and monitored though on some occasions Oxygen would get a bit low which posed a problem for smokers who couldn't get their cigarettes to light. I've never witnessed anyone exhibiting the effects of claustrophobia, folks are kept busy enough that there's little time to think about stuff like that. Height wasn't a big problem unless one were taller than about 6' 4", then the bunks were too short.

Chow wasn't that good in the 80's and early 90's. Then the Navy started sending our cooks to civilian culinary schools and they started buying food from contractors, vice the Army. The results were greatly improved chow.

As for the topic at hand, the probability of a successful recovery was small to start with and is now rapidly approaching zero. Too bad for all involved.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

Just by accident I happened to come across a link to this article just a moment ago...I have no idea as to the accuracy of it but perhaps there's still hope for those on this sub:

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area

A Canadian Aircraft, part of the enormous search mission looking for the missing Titanic tourists, heard 'banging' at 30-minute intervals in the area the submarine disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That’s the best article I’ve read yet.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Now that we have all learned a little more about the submersible, I'm pretty sure this is just a Darwinian case of winning stupid prizes for playing stupid games. The real winners of this game are all the people who had enough common sense and self preservation not to be bolted into a cut rate sub designed by college students to look at a mass grave site 13,000' feet below the surface of the ocean.

In unrelated news, I'll be starting up my own adventure tourism company. I'll be outfitting hikes across the Kilauea crater. They will cost $500,000 and the waiver fine print says that your money will be left to me in event of Premortim cremation... Adventure tourism has never been hotter!

 

[karam]

One would not calculate the potential maximum loads for a bridge and design that bridge to only hold those calculated loads. Typically, significant factors of safety are engineered into the final product.

All you say makes sense.

A family friend is a mechanical engineer, aerospace engineer actually. He told me once that the tolerances vary widely according to the setting. Bridges, buildings, balconies etc can withstand several times their maximum capacity, while airplanes for example operate within 20% margin.
I know nothing of designing any of the above, just know to feel safe when I am on/in one. That said, I'd not go into a submersible for any amount of money, let alone pay for it! Then again I am mildly afraid of anything other than swimming near the shore

 

[mawnansmiff]

For example, if I were designing a submersible craft that had an anticipated dive depth of 4000 meters, I would want it designed to handle pressures for maybe 1.5x to 2x that depth. Also, the craft is only as strong as the weakest part or component. I have no expertise at all in deep water diving, but a carbon fiber hull with the end cap epoxied in place seem a bit concerning.

Precisely. My Tudor Pelagos dive watch is guaranteed waterproof up to 500 meters, yet every watch that leaves the factory has been tested to 800 meters.

Regards,

Jay.

 

[Briar Lee]

Most major media sources are reporting “banging sounds” from the depths, seemingly from The Rolling Stones as the first source.

—-
“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.
—

Official government sources actually in charge of the rescue are not commenting.

If these sounds were confirmed there would be some effort to fly a deep water submersible to the area.

Otherwise it’s gonna look bad tomorrow when the oxygen in the submersible is used up, you know?

 

[ashdigger]

Precisely. My Tudor Pelagos dive watch is guaranteed waterproof up to 500 meters, yet every watch that leaves the factory has been tested to 800 meters.

Regards,

Jay.

Your watch was tested more rigorously than the sub was.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My favorite take on engineering…

 

[sablebrush52]

There is something very "out of time" about this story, like it belongs in the 19th century, or as the plot for a 1930's adventure movie. Even the characters, wealthy and intrepid explorers, good lord, even the name Hamish, fits this time warp of a story.
I guess this is the stuff of sagas, but being the early 21st century I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a lot of people reading about this are rooting for the ocean.
As ephemeral and useless as this lot seems to be, I hope that they are successfully rescued. And don't forget to send them the bill.

 

[Briar Lee]

Finally The Wall Street Journal provides us with our fearless commander moving heaven and earth, racing against the hours. Rear Admiral John W. Mauger is the man of the hour, commanding all rescue efforts.

—-

Rear Admiral John W. Mauger
First District Commander (D1)
U.S. Coast Guard
Rear Admiral Mauger assumed the duties of Commander, First Coast Guard District in May 2022. He oversees all Coast Guard missions across eight states in the Northeast including over 2,000 miles of coastline from the U.S.-Canadian border to northern New Jersey and 1300 miles offshore.

——
The U.S. Coast Guard said Canadian aircraft had detected underwater noises in the search for a missing submersible headed for the Titanic shipwreck, as the clock ticked down in the race to find the crew.

Those conducting the search have sent two remote-operated vehicles and a surface vessel toward the area the sounds came from, the Coast Guard said Wednesday morning.

“Those ROV searches have yielded negative results but continue,” the U.S. Coast Guard said in a tweet.
The Explorers Club, an organization dedicated to scientific exploration, said Tuesday in an email to members that sonar had detected “potential ‘tapping sounds’ at the location,” which it said could indicate a signal from the crew or simply be random noise.

—-

Let’s hope this turns out better than the attempted rescue of Floyd Collins, a name familiar to every son of the hills of my father’s generation:

 

[AJL67]

Saw an interview with the CEO of the “tour” company saying he didn’t want to (so didn't) hire a “50yr old white guy” to lead because it isn’t inspiring. Qualifications be damned!

 

[jpmcwjr]

Good grief. It'd be ironic if the sub. was actually floating in the ocean and the people in it can't get out nor notify anyone. Ugh. And it's very hard to spot even a large ship when the area is thousands of miles..

 

[AJL67]

Good grief. It'd be ironic if the sub. was actually floating in the ocean and the people in it can't get out nor notify anyone. Ugh. And it's very hard to spot even a large ship when the area is thousands of miles..

You’d think 5 minutes after loosing contact it would turn into an emergency situation, but business is business and no point scaring away potential future passengers.

Meanwhile the British billionaire’s kid posted keep his family in your prayers, then 30 minutes later replying to some only fans slag that sh could sit on his face, you can tell he broken up with worry over his father. People are ridiculous, of course if i was set to inherit billions i might have different priorities as well, but i seriously doubt it. Edit: oh it was his step dad so ….

 

[blackpowderpiper]

Good grief. It'd be ironic if the sub. was actually floating in the ocean and the people in it can't get out nor notify anyone. Ugh. And it's very hard to spot even a large ship when the area is thousands of miles..

This amazes me. Has the technology not been designed to where those on the inside could remove the hatch bolts in an emergency situation? Would it really be that complicated to engineer a connection system which would allow the opening of the hatch from the interior?

 

[mso489]

There was a glimmer of hope in reports late Tuesday/early Wednesday that metal pounding sounds were detected by sub hunting aircraft (no details about how this was done). Still, they have to locate them, bring them to the surface if they aren't there yet, and get the hatch unbolted soon enough to allow them to breathe.

The chances are about as slim as can be, but with some crazy luck, they could still be alive and rescued -- not likely, but not impossible. If it is done, the rescue crews deserve medals. The odds are not good.

 

[woodsroad]

There was a glimmer of hope in reports late Tuesday/early Wednesday that metal pounding sounds were detected by sub hunting aircraft (no details about how this was done). Still, they have to locate them, bring them to the surface if they aren't there yet, and get the hatch unbolted soon enough to allow them to breathe.

The chances are about as slim as can be, but with some crazy luck, they could still be alive and rescued -- not likely, but not impossible. If it is done, the rescue crews deserve medals. The odds are not good.

They drop sonobuoys from aircraft.
Depth charges follow after that.

 

[georged]

Even though getting to the top of Mt. Everest is just a hike and not a "spider-y" climb (the tricky spots are pre-roped... what makes it tough is the altitude), a good amount of training, conditioning, and committment is still necessary to check the box.

Doing something like this Titanic visit is much closer to being a carnival ride. Climb in and go. The primary "achievement" is proving to the world you had a quarter mil to burn.

Seems like different personality types would be attracted to them, with the submersible scenario requiring a lot more trust. A situational attribute that would certainly be noticed by a$piring provider$ of the $ervice.

There's going to be a lot of digging into adventure tourism as a categorical thing in the next few years by both certifying agencies and future customers, I think.

 

[Navy Chief]

Even though getting to the top of Mt. Everest is just a hike and not a "spider-y" climb (the tricky spots are pre-roped... what makes it tough is the altitude), a good amount of training, conditioning, and committment is still necessary to check the box.

Doing something like this Titanic visit is much closer to being a carnival ride. Climb in and go. The primary "achievement" is proving to the world you had a quarter mil to burn.

Seems like different personality types would be attracted to them, with the submersible scenario requiring a lot more trust. A situational attribute that would certainly be noticed by a$piring provider$ of the $ervice.

There's going to be a lot of digging into adventure tourism as a categorical thing in the next few years by both certifying agencies and future customers, I think.

I was thinking along similar lines a little while ago in regards to certifying agencies. I was wondering how this venture is insured and how forthcoming with details about this submersible the owners and operators were with the company providing insurance to the venture. They can't be crazy enough to be doing with with no insurance backing.