Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[mortonbriar]

Claustrophobia prevents me from ever being in this particular predicament, before we even touch the financial likelihood...

It will be a sigh of relief if anyone is recovered from this, but it seems too much to expect.

 

[brian64]

To follow up on Ashdigger's comments, there are many things of concern here. Having an undergraduate degree in structural engineering, the thought of designing anything right up to its failure point is frightening.

One would not calculate the potential maximum loads for a bridge and design that bridge to only hold those calculated loads. Typically, significant factors of safety are engineered into the final product.

For example, if I were designing a submersible craft that had an anticipated dive depth of 4000 meters, I would want it designed to handle pressures for maybe 1.5x to 2x that depth. Also, the craft is only as strong as the weakest part or component. I have no expertise at all in deep water diving, but a carbon fiber hull with the end cap epoxied in place seem a bit concerning.

At least from what I've read, the craft had not been properly tested at those depths with the maximum anticipated passenger load. Also, the fact that control of the vessel was via a wireless game controller without some type of secondary, hardwired redundant control system built in is also alarming.

Were there systems in place that would accurately measure and mitigate the levels of O2, CO2 and CO? If so, had these been properly tested and evaluated? They claimed to have life support systems for 96 hours. What was this based on? Was it ever put to the test?

Not learning from the lessons that have been written in blood by those who have gone before us is also of concern. Perhaps the CEO realized the push back he would have received from those who have expertise in the subject matter and decided to avoid their counsel.

At any rate, a tragic circumstance and chain of events. God bless all those involved.

Saw an interview with the CEO of the “tour” company saying he didn’t want to (so didn't) hire a “50yr old white guy” to lead because it isn’t inspiring. Qualifications be damned!

The CEO is supposedly one of those on board...so he is getting first hand experience of what is likely the result of his policies.

 

[sham]

There's going to be a lot of digging into adventure tourism as a categorical thing in the next few years by both certifying agencies and future customers, I think.

The term 'certifying agency' makes me sick. These people paid their money and signed away their life as a risk. I hope for their recovery, but accept whatever fate brings...

 

[woodsroad]

I'm guessing that those recent college grads are quickly redacting their resumes.

 

[mso489]

I think endless hours of Titanic wreckage videos are available online and otherwise, so that all of your curiosity could be easily satisfied without much of any risk.

The porthole views from the submersible are not great, and it all has to be lit by the submersible's headlights because there is zero light at that depth. So your range of view is limited in both width and range.

Plus you are basically lying on the deck (floor) of the submersible, with no bathroom aboard, fasting even the night before the dive, with the air getting more foul by the hour, and I guess peeing in a jug.

I guess all this would have been the adventure of a lifetime if it were over in five or six hours, and the mother ship brought you back aboard and headed home. The experience would immediately begin to mellow into one of those glorious memories that glows brighter over time.

Wow, the depth charges and the sonar buoys are nifty, but again risky ... so long as they don't hit the submersible itself. Hopefully, someone is hitting the side of the submersible with a wrench. I wonder if that synthetic material resonates as well as metal.

 

[anotherbob]

After reading more the "sub" sounds pretty questionable. Read accounts of people who took the tour before this and all I can add is be careful who you trust and just because they act like they know what they're doing doesn't mean squat.
Oh and what @mso489 said about the videos online. Pretty much the accounts I read seemed to say it wasn't that different then the videos online.

 

[woodsroad]

I think endless hours of Titanic wreckage videos are available online and otherwise, so that all of your curiosity could be easily satisfied without much of any risk.

The porthole views from the submersible are not great, and it all has to be lit by the submersible's headlights because there is zero light at that depth. So your range of view is limited in both width and range.

Plus you are basically lying on the deck (floor) of the submersible, with no bathroom aboard, fasting even the night before the dive, with the air getting more foul by the hour, and I guess peeing in a jug.

I guess all this would have been the adventure of a lifetime if it were over in five or six hours, and the mother ship brought you back aboard and headed home. The experience would immediately begin to mellow into one of those glorious memories that glows brighter over time.

Wow, the depth charges and the sonar buoys are nifty, but again risky ... so long as they don't hit the submersible itself. Hopefully, someone is hitting the side of the submersible with a wrench. I wonder if that synthetic material resonates as well as metal.

Who says they have a wrench? Or ANY tools for that matter?

 

[Briar Lee]

This amazes me. Has the technology not been designed to where those on the inside could remove the hatch bolts in an emergency situation? Would it really be that complicated to engineer a connection system which would allow the opening of the hatch from the interior?

I’m not an engineer, but the entrance hatch would logically be the most critical and failure prone of the vessel.

This craft goes down to where there are insane pressures.

When you ponder the problems, the safest way to seal the hatch would be to have it dogged down tight from the outside, where the support crew could check it was fully secured.

At two miles deep, any emergency requiring an exit is already unsurvivable.

 

[mso489]

The expense of this rescue effort is often discussed. Whether the rescue is achieved or not, this ends up being a training exercise in itself, assessing what is available and what isn't and how it can be or could be used.

I think the Coast Guard and the U.S. and Canadian navies will get a lot of information and training out of it, not cheaply, but with high intensity.

If they can pull out a rescue, it will also be a tremendous boon to recruiting, which is way down right now for the U.S. military.

All this is not to neglect the goal -- save those five people.

What, no tools? It is possible that they have no tools, no wrench to bang against the hull. That's hard to believe, since the vessel sounds somewhat homemade, but it is an awful possibility. If not, what were they thinking? Were they thinking?

 

[warren]

I wonder if the CEO, aboard the submersible" is rethinking his criteria for picking drivers as he takes what are possibly his last breath. He wanted young joy stick operators to "inspire" kids to take an interest in oceanography. Well, that seems to be the gist his thoughts as posted by the media. I wonder how inspiritional the "joy stick" operator has been over the last couple of days?

 

[Briar Lee]

There’s a lot of criticism of the Titan design, but consider this.

The craft has made over 50 deep dives, several to the Titanic. The engineering worked.

There’s been an accident, to a perfectly good, many times proven, submersible.

The only shortcut may be a lack of an acoustic beacon.

The most likely failure would be something that killed all five before they could communicate.

If so that craft is still close to Titanic and they’ll find it sooner or later.

 

[anotherbob]

I wonder if the CEO, aboard the submersible" is rethinking his criteria for picking drivers as he takes what are possibly his last breath. He wanted young joy stick operators to "inspire" kids to take an interest in oceanography. Well, that seems to be the gist his thoughts as posted by the media. I wonder how inspiritional the "joy stick" operator has been over the last couple of days?

the whole thing seems to me like the old rub of rich people forgetting that reality still applies to them too.

 

[bullet08]

I would hate to be the first guy to fart in that sub.

 

[warren]

the whole thing seems to me like the old rub of rich people forgetting that reality still applies to them too.

Or dreamers! Serious hobbyists. Risk takers. People with a sense of adventure. There's a whole spectrum of people who would pay money, not much money at that in today's world, for risky adventures.

 

[AJL67]

Here’s the interview by the, I’m assuming Ex CEO

 

[Briar Lee]

the whole thing seems to me like the old rub of rich people forgetting that reality still applies to them too.

Without delving into religion, per se, the original Titanic sinking was just worked to death by Christian preachers from the pulpit as I was growing up.

Consider fifty years ago (and maybe some churches still) a Christian Church preacher had to deliver three original sermons a week, each approved by the head elder, and not one could stray an inch from the teachings found in red letters of the first four gospels, or he’s fired on the spot. Those elders didn’t allow one word out of his mouth that didn’t square with what the Master preached.

You can’t make up a better morality lesson than the brand new, supposedly unsinkable Titanic barreling through the night, disregarding ice warnings, and meeting her slow doom.

The rich and poor alike faced the same icy and wet grave.

And all while the Captain of the Carpathia placed his ship in mortal danger steaming at full speed to the rescue, the hot water taps shut off to add more steam.

And in sight, the Captain of the California refused to come to their aid.

And always there was a special, and we’d sing When That Great Ship Went Down.

Roy Acuff with June Webb

 

[sham]

I dont think a single one of them would have really thought they were putting themselves into harms way. We live in an age where people regularly board airplanes without giving it a second thought, just so they can go spend time with the in-laws at thanksgiving. The safety of our modern airplanes is built off the failures of those that crashed.

 

[Jaylotw]

I’m not an engineer, but the entrance hatch would logically be the most critical and failure prone of the vessel.

This craft goes down to where there are insane pressures.

When you ponder the problems, the safest way to seal the hatch would be to have it dogged down tight from the outside, where the support crew could check it was fully secured.

At two miles deep, any emergency requiring an exit is already unsurvivable.

You're exactly right here. Pretty much every ultra deep diving sub has a bolted on hatch, for the exact reasons you've laid out here. Bolts don't fail really, won't back out, and can be tightened to a measurable torque providing assurance that that sucker is absolutely water and air tight...otherwise, catastrophic implosion.

 

[olkofri]

I would hate to be the first guy to fart in that sub.

Heh, did you see that the sub's seeing window is in the toilet room?

 

[warren]

I never even buy an airline ticket without checking the financial health of the airline and it's safety record. There are airlines, some rather large, I won't book a seat on. I have friends who are pilots who will always share information with regard to how their employer handles maintenance. But, I also weigh convenience with risk and am always hopeful the command pilot doesn't harbor suicidal desires.

I board an airplane with the full understanding that air traffic control is now staffed, in spots, by not always the most qualified applicant. The same applies to law enforcement and most other professions. Flying is a risk, not a particularly high level of risk but, certainly, for me anyway, worth some "due diligence."

Obviously I'm a risk taker, I smoke. But, I always walk around and under the carnival rides, counting nuts and bolts on the ground under the ride before deciding whether or not to purchase a ticket.