Well, we can safely say that woke just sank to a whole new depth!
Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.
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Damn those 50 yr old white ex military submarine commanders with their experience in emergency situation. Nah having a 22yr old that needs a crying room and his pronouns correctly stated is much better. Sorry for saying “his” i hope i didn’t offend anyone.
Something you’ll never hear that CEO say.
What a lot of nonsense. The sub was being piloted by the CEO Stockton Rush, not some 22yo 'sissy' as you imagine in your dreams.
Those wanting to wage their 'war on woke' based on the CEO's previous comments should wind their neck in a bit at this early stage. We don't know what has happened yet, and their are almost endless facets and possibilities at play.
Details of the subs design and construction taken from Wikipedia.
Titan (4000 meters)Edit
Design and constructionEdit
OceanGate began developing a composite carbon fiber and titanium-hulled submersible in collaboration with the University of Washington's (UW) Applied Physics Lab (APL) in 2013,[15] tentatively named Cyclops 2; the first titanium structural components were ordered in December 2016 from Titanium Fabrication Corp. (TiFab),[17] and OceanGate signed a contract with Spencer Composites in January 2017 for the carbon-composite cylinder. Spencer previously had built the composite pressure hull for the single-person DeepFlight Challenger for Steve Fossett to a design by Graham HawkesIts clear that the process isn't all in the hands of the 'woke brigade' and even if it was there may well have been a regulatory failing here. It appears that this sub was diving with no official certification of its construction by a regulatory body. Why is this happening?
If this company is leaving control of such expeditions in the hands of 22yo 'bed wetters', then perhaps there is another regulatory failing which has nothing to do with woke.
You think everyone talked shit like this when we had our tax dollars paying for the race to the moon?
Did Columbus have a gofundme page?
For heaven’s sake, people want to go where no (read very few) men have gone before.
It’s our nature, the same nature that made these guys wealthy enough to pay for the ride.
Did Columbus have a gofundme page?
For heaven’s sake, people want to go where no (read very few) men have gone before.
It’s our nature, the same nature that made these guys wealthy enough to pay for the ride.
Which regulatory body is it that licenses and inspects submarines intended to be operated in international waters by privately owned companies?
That virtue signaling worldview has more in common with religion than physical science.
Problem is, Mother Nature does not debate philosophy or human feelings/emotion.
She's a right bitch in that regard.
Look up "Kara Hultgreen" to see an aviation analog of this submersible debacle.
Or why Boeing continues to miss deliveries of 737 MAX and 787 jets.
The physical world does not give the slightest shit about human affairs, ideals, passions, sources of pride, sources of guilt, ideas about justice, or anything else.
Never has, and never will.
Crunch the numbers RIGHT, or die.
The end.
In order to buy insurance, a sea vessel is usually certified by one of three agencies:
DNV, out of Norway
Lloyds of London
Lloyd's Register Marine and Shipping
LR is a leading international provider of classification, compliance and consultancy services to the marine industry.
www.lr.org
The American Bureau of Shipping
American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) Eagle.org
Committed to setting standards for safety and excellence as one of the world’s leading ship classification organizations, the American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) establishes the best solutions for the industries we serve, and is at the forefront of marine and offshore innovation.
I’ve read where Titan passengers sign a huge stack of waivers that emphasize you might die during the exploration. It’s not a carnival ride.
The overhead and other costs of the operator must be staggering. I doubt they carry insurance, or could. Would you insure them?
In an about 12 or 13 hours the oxygen will run out and if they haven’t been dead since Monday they will be.
Human nature being what it is, some other company will build another submersible and passengers will keep paying small fortunes to ride.
If that were my business and they were willing pay the premium ... sure. It would be foolish not to. My brother spent many years as a member of a Lloyd's syndicate. They issued all sorts of coverage for risky ventures. That was exactly how they made their moneys. You don't think those tankers traveling through pirate controlled coastal African waters are uninsured? Of course they are. Lloyd's doesn't just insure things like Betty Grable's legs.
Now whether the submersible's owner would purchase insurance, that's another question. The passengers on the vessel could have purchased their own coverage if they wished.
Piloted and built by are different.
He eliminated a radio to have a better user experience.
I’ll stick with this dude was an ego driven narcissist.
The more I hear about it the more red flags get thrown up and we all take risks but some are just foolish. It reminds me of the investments that are too good to be true and people who know better invest thinking they won't get burnt.
Which basically makes this whole "woke" thing, for or against, irrelevant.
I have no problem with diversity, which has noting to do with "woke", now a largely meaningless term applied to everything at the drop of a hat. But, I rarely make my decisions based on diversity, except when I spot a restaurant featuring a cuisine that I haven't tried before. Tibetan yak butter, anyone?
I base my choices on competence and capability first and foremost and I don't care what kind of package in which it shows up, as long as it shows up. I don't hire someone because they fit a particular demographic.
The problem with virtue signalling is that so many are engaged in it, pro or con, this or that, and so it's largely meaningless as well, just an annoying sign of teeny tiny minds expressing what they're told to express.
What any of this has to do with the submersible is totally lost on me.
At this point in the time/space continuum, nobody, with the possible exception of the passengers if they're still alive, has a clue regarding what has transpired.
If anyone is interested, here's a news story with video of a Chicago area man who went down to the Titanic on the same sub two years ago.
abc7chicago.com
Suburban man took trip to Titanic wreckage on OceanGate's Titan submersible with CEO Stockton Rush
David Waud of Lake Forest was able to join an OceanGate expedition to see the Titanic wreckage in the Titan submersible two years ago with now-missing CEO Stockton Rush.
abc7chicago.com
All I see when I read “carbon composite” is the head on my latest driver. Maybe not relevant but not confidence inspiring to me.
So much 20/20 hindsight BUT a lot of it really doesn’t seem misplaced.
I hope they make it, respect all involved in the location/possible rescue effort.
I’m not remotely acquainted with anything Navy, Coast Guard or seafaring but of the countless tales I’ve read whether fact or fiction, the ocean isn’t something you want to take for granted and those that do in almost any way large or small don’t make out all that well.
I looked up Titan’s communication system:
—
The Titan would have had an acoustic link with its surface vessel, set up through a transponder (a device for receiving a sonar signal) on its end, and a transceiver (a device that can both transmit and receive communications) on the surface vessel.
This link allows for underwater acoustic positioning, as well as for short text messages to be sent back and forth to the surface vessel – but the amount of data that can be shared is limited and usually includes basic telemetry and status information.
—-
What the vessel did not have was an emergency locator beacon.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Such locator beacons are relatively cheap, but given the depths of over two miles would any of them stand the pressure if outside the pressure hull?
And if inside, could it be heard?
—
The Titan would have had an acoustic link with its surface vessel, set up through a transponder (a device for receiving a sonar signal) on its end, and a transceiver (a device that can both transmit and receive communications) on the surface vessel.
This link allows for underwater acoustic positioning, as well as for short text messages to be sent back and forth to the surface vessel – but the amount of data that can be shared is limited and usually includes basic telemetry and status information.
—-
What the vessel did not have was an emergency locator beacon.
Emergency locator beacon - Wikipedia
Such locator beacons are relatively cheap, but given the depths of over two miles would any of them stand the pressure if outside the pressure hull?
And if inside, could it be heard?
With oceans, rivers, lakes, etc., you are dealing with immense power that isn't always apparent. You have to honor it and work with it, because if you get at cross purposes with it, you can't survive.
The ocean has no opinion about people. It isn't oppositional. It is simply oblivious.
Last time I was on the banks of the Mississippi and watched that current move on along in perfectly pleasant weather, I watched millions of gallons of water sweeping past at about 15 miles an hour.
When it floods in the spring, it goes where ever it goes. People just pick up the pieces. The ocean is way bigger than the Mississippi River.
The ocean has no opinion about people. It isn't oppositional. It is simply oblivious.
Last time I was on the banks of the Mississippi and watched that current move on along in perfectly pleasant weather, I watched millions of gallons of water sweeping past at about 15 miles an hour.
When it floods in the spring, it goes where ever it goes. People just pick up the pieces. The ocean is way bigger than the Mississippi River.
Lloyd’s is famous for insuring just about all risks.
But here, the deep water submersible market is so tiny, and the risks obviously so high, what would they rate it at?
The owner had a million dollars in paying customers.
But against that, he had to charter the Polar Star former icebreaker that is a two thousand ton ship. That wasn’t cheap.
CCGS Sir Humphrey Gilbert - Wikipedia
I’ve noticed the rate for explorations has more doubled in two years from $110,000 to $250,000.
And that 20,000 pound carbon fiber and titanium submersible has to be paid for, too.
Remind me not to ever get in the submarine business.
Actually the structural factor of safety for (manned) aircraft is 1.5 or 150%. A 50% margin above the very highest loads expected.
Some parts of an aircraft are required to be sized to factors above that.
Ren
Missing Titanic Sub: Here’s Why Underwater Search And Rescue Missions Are So Tough
‘No Radar, No GPS’: Here’s Why Underwater Search And Rescue Missions Are So Tough
Experts warn vast oceanic expanses, incredible depths and difficulties communicating through water combine to make the rescue mission of the Titan sub a challenging endeavor.
www.forbes.com
I’ve read the Titan was designed with a 2.25 safety margin.
It’s made over 50 dives, until this one.
Again I’m no engineer, but an over double safety margin pressure hull isn’t likely to collapse under half the design pressure.
What’s more likely, is the porthole or hatch seals failed.
Besides, if the hull imploded the Navy would have likely picked up the sound.
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