What if? The Removal of the Pixie Pipe Dust

[sablebrush52]

It's one thing if I had a huge bank account and buying a Becker was just another "thing" to me, but for me to buy a Becker or Eltang, it required saving for several months. So, initially, I felt "lied to." I'm not much for caring what others think of me either. I just do what makes me happy. So, I may be more pissed than the guy who can afford to just drop a thousand on this or that.

The wealthy folks that I know would absolutely be pissed if what they bought wasn't EXACTLY what they had been led to expect they would get and what they had paid for. People with money to burn don't tend to burn it. That's how they end up with money to burn. And they would take action to get back what is theirs.
The assumption that it makes no difference who makes the pipe, the father or the son, is a convenient dishonesty. Any craftsman brings a unique set of decisions to the creative process. A really fine craftsman brings a finer set of decisions, from choosing his wood all the way through to the finished result, than does a mediocre craftsman. And that's what I'm paying for when I choose to engage a particular craftsman for a commission, or when I hire a specific artist to work on one of my projects.

 

[buckaroo]

But most of those buying must have heard of his passing like we did which added to my general confusion about the situation and the thought that maybe I missed something (Backlog of already made pipes/ son suddenly equal to him, etc.) as they seem to be selling (Maybe they're not, I could be wrong.) All the more reason to buy more Le Nuvole's and Don Carlos's (I don't think anyone buys these but me!), etc. if in the market for pipes from the boot country. Yes, I would feel bamboozled a bit. Interesting.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I wasn't jabbing at all wealthy folks. I was thinking about the guys who walk into a store and asks for the most expensive thing on the shelf, "give me the most expensive cigar in the humidor." People who like to drip, trickle down, so to speak. Not the guy who worked his way up, but the guy who sends his socks off to the poor after wearing them once. There is is this "guy" out there. The value of the diamond is only seen in the amount of the check. Oh, and don't get me wrong. I love this guy. These guys are the greatest. But, he is out there. The guy who bought a Becker and an oz of blue berry pie tobacco, smoked it once, bit his tongue, and stuck the pipe in a drawer- type of guy.
+1 buckaroo, Where is the deluge coming from? But, I am speaking from hypothetical space here, conjecture land. I wouldn't run out and slap your tobacconist until I had heard more from someone in the biz. We need a sleuth on the case. A pipe Sherlock. Geraldo Rivera, getting us the scoop. Pipes magazine on the case. Put the Kevin on the case. Something better than some distributor telling us the pipes were found behind the couch. Ha ha. Follow the money!!

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

If any part of my Ashtons were outsourced to cheap labour I would sell them and never mention the company again (ok maybe not quite that harsh but you get the idea).

It's considered dishonest when an engineer outsources work, I don't see why this should be any different.
There's enough companies out there on the second generation I don't see why anyone would hide that kind of information anyway. If it's not a factory pipe I want the name of the guy making the thing on the pipe.

 

[newbroom]

We're talking about the difference between artisan and factory production. A factory can represent an artisan's work, duplicating style and design parameters, and achieve a very reasonable facsimile worth a premium, but, an artisan's own handiwork, right from his own bench, is something I think we can all appreciate for its originality.

An artisan usually won't even sell his work unless it meets a very high standard, his own.

Buyer beware.

 

[Chasing Embers]

That's why all my artisian pieces are Weavers. I know him personally, and he keeps me involved in the carving process. Even though I like for him to keep the end result as a surprise, he takes my input to add to it. (Anyone thinking about getting a Weaver, he does do exacting requests, the surprise pipe is just an annual game I started with him a few years ago.)

 

[wcannoy]

Speaking for myself, I make my own pipes, and when I am gone, so will be my pipe production. I welcome visitors to my workshop (as long as it is a planned visit), and they can watch, and have watched, me make pipes.
I can't speak for the provenance of all other pipes, but here's something to consider, especially in the case of the Becker pipes that keep popping up on Smokingpipes.com.
Smokingpipes.com has a "schedule" for when they release new pipes on the website. When they receive a batch of pipes from me, they don't get posted to the site for weeks, or even a couple of months. They don't go up on the site right away. I suppose it could be the case that they bought a large batch of Becker pipes before his death, and are only releasing them a few at a time... It would be interesting to find out if this was in fact what happened for sure, but I'm just saying let's not jump to conclusions based on perceptions.
I don't know if the other retailers operate the same way, other than the fact that Jeremiah Sandahl sent me a text message when some of his work was picked up by Quality Briar. We both waited in excited anticipation for his pipes to hit the website... Three or four months later, the pipes he sent were finally posted. Had something happened to him in the mean time, God forbid and knock on wood and all, it surely would have raised speculation that those pipes might have been cobbled together by a crew of tiny Sandahl offspring. :lol:
I don't know... I'm just saying.

 

[crusader]

Walt, if you don't mind answering a irrelevant question I have often wondered. Do the shops like Smoking Pipes pay you at time of sale or once they take possession at their storefront? Have always been curious about that.

 

[wcannoy]

Walt, if you don't mind answering a irrelevant question I have often wondered. Do the shops like Smoking Pipes pay you at time of sale or once they take possession at their storefront? Have always been curious about that.

It's not a consignment situation, if that's what you mean. It's just like any vendor/retailer relationship. I get paid when they receive the goods from me.

 

[monty55]

Great question!
I sold all my pipes that were from anything close to resembling a production pipe for this very reason.
The only pipes I own now are made by artisans that only produce a handfull of pipes annually anyway, so I know every pipe was indeed crafted by the artisan who's name the pipe bares. Like Old Nellie pipes, Walt Cannoy pipes, J&J, and a Rolando Negoita. Other than those my MM Cobs are the only pipes I have that were not hand crafted and made in a production line.

 

[moriarty]

It would trouble me if high grade Eltang pipes were made in a factory and only hand-finished by Tom. That would not be what the buyer has been led to believe, and it would be wrong for Tom not to disclose this. I know Tom has had several lower grade and lower priced lines and I think everyone assumes there are economies in the process of making these - that's ok.
I am not as concerned if there has been a gradual transition from Paolo to Federico in making Becker pipes. If many of the ones we are seeing now and in recent years were made by Federico then I don't see any deterioration in quality. In fact I kind of hope that these pipes were made by Federico because that would suggest this great and distinctive hand-made brand will continue to go from strength to strength. Over time we will judge whether the Fritz, Paolo or Federico era Becker pipes are the most desirable - but if Federico's pipes aren't up to the Becker standard then I'd suggest the ones we see now aren't his.

 

[framitz]

I would like to point out that Amati family invented violin and made them for over 100 years. Stradivari was student guadarius was student and third generation

Was the best luthier. The families taught invented and mastered. Much like modern pipe artisans. Shel

 

[joshuaburgess]

Hi Guys,
Just a couple of quick points:
All the Becker pipes that we've sold at Smokingpipes.com were made by Paolo. When and if we get Becker pipes from Paolo's son, we'll make that point as clearly as we can. Secondly, we have been able to feature Becker pipes on several updates recently because we had a number of Becker pipes in inventory that were not yet on the website, and because Paolo's U.S. distributor also had pipes in inventory that we were still able to purchase. Whenever there's a three-tiered distribution network, as there was with Becker pipes, the supply tends to taper off rather than come to an immediate halt. In fact, we've made an effort to get the Becker pipes that we have to the website as soon as possible so that if we do, indeed, get pipes from Paolo's son we can communicate that transition clearly.
Best,
Josh

 

[beastkhk]

Good, just as I suspected; a full on conspiracy! JK
I won't speak for Cosmic, but may need to just reemphasize the "what if" part of the thread.

 

[daimyo]

Eltang does have three pipe lines. His sailor pipes which are cheap and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find were factory handled since they are pretty much Identical. The Copenhagen line, which are cheaper but state "a handmade affordable pipe made by Tom himself." But I could see them really being hand finished since they seem very consistent in shape. Finally you have the actual Eltang line which are of course billed as his handmade line where people are certainly expecting a pipe made by the man himself. One thing I can't help but think though is the number of people who have spent time in Mr. Eltang's shop watching him work or receiving pointers/advice. I guess it would surprise me to find he was not making pipes.
Nording always seemed like a factory pipe to me but I have never been a fan of his aesthetic so I admit I never researched them beyond that.
I like the way Caminetto works where you know (or at least hope you do) that the pipes are coming out of a traditional shop but unless your pipe is stamped AT, I would assume more than one set of hands were involved, rather than Tomaso himself having complete authorship.
As to Becker, this is a family line of pipes where I expect them to train the next generation. I don't think there was an issue then it passed hands to Paulo, so I don't see why I would mind if it once again the new generation takes the reigns. It is Becker Pipes not Paulo Pipes. But I can see the desire to own a pipe crafted by Paulo himself and this arrangement could make that difficult. I honestly doubt Paulo would have allowed his son the use of the Becker stamp before he was capable and ready. But it seems that some of that has been cleared up in the post above. Interesting topic none the less and on the Becker side was something I has wondered myself.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

may need to just reemphasize the "what if" part of the thread.

The tile of the thread is "what if?" If people are getting bent, then I cannot control that.
As to the retailer, he still hasn't staked his reputation on whether Paulo himself had a hand on every pipe, but I suspect he would have no idea. How would he feel if he found out the premise of the thread? ...which is what this whole thing was about. Would smokingpipes.com refund money back to the customers if they did find out Paulo was the maker of the pipes that have been produced with his father's name on them? Would you guys demand it? Once again, what if.
If it is a stylish pipe that smokes well, is that all that is to be expected? And this is the crux of the thread. What if John Cougar Melenacamp used another singer's voice on his album? What if he had someone else write the music but put his name on it? If it's a good song, would it matter?
Becker is the center of conversation here, as well as Eltang and Nording, because those are some of my favorite pipes. Honestly, I know that Nording hasn't touched a pipe in years, I asked him. But, I still like the pipes and they are bargain basement cheap, even his high end pipes are within easy peasy reach of the working man. But, he does stamp them all "hand made." But, who is going to argue if they are under $100? That's like getting bent because your Bic lighter was really made in... I don't know, somewhere cheaper than China. Eltang, I would be upset if they were factory made. I would probably have to sell them or crush the damn things if I felt that I was duped out of my hard earned cash for that thing.
Becker, well I have sort of put him on a pedestal. It was my first high end pipe, and I saved for four months (not buying any tobacco) to get my first. They were all around $1200, and I am not a rich man by any means. I am a craftsman making about 24,000 a year, which is pretty good in the crafter world. I will never own a Ferrari or a Porsche, but if I save, I can own the Ferrari of the pipe world. I've read about everything I can about him. He is a rock star of sorts in the pipe world, to me. And, when I smoke it, it is listening to a master play. If I found out that this whole time I was listening to his understudy, well... How would you feel? I don't give a rat's ass whether the understudy is good or better, I want my experience to be real. It was worth it to me to save and scrape by to get them, I would expect that he would have given me honesty and integrity. If people or Paulo himself were profiting off of merely the name, well, that would piss me off to no end. Wouldn't it you?

but like I said "what if?"
I've had time to reflect. Ultimately, a pipe is just a thing. I think this whole exercise has given me perspective. Pixie dust is gone. Even if it is just a story, it ultimately is just a thing to put tobacco in. I'm not sure idolizing a pipemaker is ever really worth more than $300 to me now. And, my favorite pipes are still the ones I made for myself. I am fairly sure that I did make them, ha ha. But, when I start paying premium dollars for my own pipes, I may just have to get an understudy to make my own pipes for me, ha ha.

 

[daimyo]

But Paulo was once the understudy to Fritz. How many years must one's progeny train before they deserve the family name? I would imagine only the individual who holds the reigns can say. If it's still a handmade pipe by one of the Becker family, I don't think they have misrepresented themselves. Even the description of the Becker company on pipe sites does not claim only Paulo made Becker pipes, most of them start with talking about Fritz. If it was factory made, then I agree that is different but passed through the family seems pretty standard in the classic pipe world.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

But Paulo was once the understudy to Fritz. How many years must one's progeny train before they deserve the family name?

I don't buy any of the progeny shit. I have pipes that cost $20 to 2,000, all of them smoke great. A monkey with a few hours training can make a damned pipe that smokes, ...well, a very well trained monkey, ha ha. It's two holes in a block of wood. If a moron can't make one after a few days, then I don't want anything that moron makes. It's not like it involves micro welding and prong setting a $2000 diamond. It doesn't even take the skill needed to maintain a kiln and the chemistry of glazes. Not to completely diminish the skills needed for wood, but it's not rocket science. A sense of discipline, craftsmanship, an eye for detail, a little knowledge of briar. I trained my daughter to resize rings when she was ten, and I was doing it at that age as well. Making things may just seem amazing and un-achievable to most people, but if you go into something with an "I can do this" attitude, you can do much more amazing things that you may realize. A couple of hours of good instructions, and some people can go off and paint lifelike portraits in oil paint. A couple of hours of instructions and some people can go off and make their own marble carvings. Does anyone really need years of apprenticeship to make a pipe, which has no moving parts, and just one join?
I know, I know, there is a lot to take in when making a pipe, but years? Don;t get me wrong, I totally respect pipe makers. I wouldn't even have started this thread if I didn't idolize and collect the pipes that i do. But, I get so sick and tired of it being billed as some sort of magical rocket science. Sort of like how I get pissed when I hear crap on the History channel about how humans could never have built the pyramids, Allies must have, because we aren't that smart. I'm a "can do" person. Give me a few thousand slaves and some land, and I'll build you some pyramids by hand, no modern tools. We are human beings, we can do absolutely anything that can be imagined. ...well, except the morons who can't ream a pipe with a pocketknife without buggering it out of round. They probably couldn't ha ha!! But. they can probably do other things that I cannot. We all have gifts.
But, when I buy a Paulo Becker, I want a Paulo Becker. If I want a Walt Connoy, I don't want Eltang making his pipes, or even Paulo Becker making his pipes. I would want a Walt Connoy. End of story. ...for me. You can feel how you want. I just don't see the mystique of making things, but I do want what I expect that I am getting. ::

 

[daimyo]

The pipe never said Paulo Becker though, it just said Becker. You added the Paulo in your mind for better or worse. I get what you mean though, he was the driving force behind the company as we now know it. If it's nothing special though, surely his well trained son should be capable. It seems silly to me to expect a 2 generation company to shutter when it hits the third generation.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I love these debates. I love the back and forth about things that we are passionate about.

Yes, you are right, ...to a degree. His website says that he makes the pipes, and that is his logo, not his dad's or a family logo. But, yeh, sort of.
And, it's not what I would call a company, business yes, company no. Company implies that he just oversees the production, or has hired someone to oversee. But, maybe someone with a dictionary will correct me. That is just how my mind divides the two. Where is the line drawn between the two? I'm sure that it is fuzzy, but when a person has his products made for him, it starts to fall out of the artisan category and into factory category, ...and prices. Typically, when the supply is increased, the cost decreases.
Maybe his son will get his father's prices right off the bat? Maybe he will get even more money. But, while I've been smoking my pipes, I have had no idea what his son's name is, nor what he even looks like. That would still be my issue.
Maybe Joe Schmoe did the actual recordings of VanHalen's guitar work, but while I listened to it, I imagined it was Eddie. If I found out it was really Joe Schmoe, I would feel cheated, as would most of his fans.
Great posts and points. This is what I love about the hobby. There's so many different perspectives.