What A Joke

[hoosierpipeguy]

I hear talk about high end pipes which I don't dispute. I'm sure a lot of that new money in China wants to display their wealth by posing with high end pipes and their gold bags of Esoterica blends. I still don't think that's where much of the Va Flake blends are going to. When you are referencing these high end posers, you're talking about people that are more concerned about the appearance than actually enjoying the blend. Kind of like all the morons who would pay $20 for an Opus X cigar and didn't know which end to light. These aren't the people who are smoking 6 bowls per day and buying up hundreds and thousands of tins of F&T Cut Virginia Plug.

 

[mso489]

I shouldn't complain. My tastes are so varied and accommodating, I can enjoy any blend that falls off the truck. Rare or common.

 

[jdb67]

My opinion matters about as much as it does for politics, but here we go:
Screw these 'alert me when it is in' options unless it is a normal and short-term lull in what is usually available inventory. For these tobacco's that are never in stock, or only in stock for 2 minutes...all it does is piss people off for retailers to sell this way where you ask for these alerts knowing damn well most people won't have a chance. I respect the one above that does not alert everyone. I think there is still a better way. What the retailers should do is analyze the buying history of their patrons and if you hit a certain level, when you go to checkout, you get a link that says...'you are a valued customer that spends a lot of money here and we appreciate it. Click on this link to go to a page that lets you buy a few tins of rare tobacco if you so desire.' If the retailer is not selling fast enough, they just lower the threshold for who gets the offer at checkout. Quite frankly, I would rather click on the Esoterica link and get an evil laugh than have the choice to 'Alert me when it is in stock'. I don't even bother anymore as I just prefer to buy tobacco's that are fairly easy to get all the time. I've had Penzance and I did like it. I like Plum Pudding too. I have a few pounds of Plum Pudding put away. At some point, my memory of Penzance being "better" just gets in the way. Am I supposed to spend huge bucks buying up Penzance on forums or every time I smoke Plum Pudding, go through some feelings of regret that I don't have Penzance. HELL NO. Screw Penzance and I fully embrace Plum Pudding and appreciate that I have it whenever I want. I will let others argue if Penzance has fairy dust in it...which it may....because it makes people crazy, watching their email for that elusive alert to show up.

 

[Bowie]

Two possible solutions for selling limited amount of high-demand tobacco:

1. Lottery/Powerball style. Sign up by certain date/time. Each entrant gets number. Retailer uses random # generator to determine buyers and a certain number of people on a wait list. Buyers have 24 hours to purchase before tin moved to next person on wait list. Tin limits in effect.

2. Announce that Tobacco X will be online available for sale at certain date/time. Perhaps lot is divided into 2-3 blocks of time that are appropriate for different time zones and times of day. Tin limits in effect.

 

[jerseysam]

I hear talk about high end pipes which I don't dispute. I'm sure a lot of that new money in China wants to display their wealth by posing with high end pipes and their gold bags of Esoterica blends. I still don't think that's where much of the Va Flake blends are going to.

To your point, overall pipe tobacco is a fairly limited supply good that retails at a relatively low price. Where ever demand comes from, it won't take that many bodies/that much $ at retail value (sans tin-limits) to wipe out at a release if enough folks want it. Can domestic demand wipe out releases on its own...for sure I'd believe that. The only point about non-domestic buying...if something like Sagebrush's take is true...is that the very few biggest name blends (ala' Penzance') are not going to be sufficient to satisfy demand in a hot market. Folks in the re-sell chain are going to want to keep making big mark-up $'s and customers need product......domestic buyers would follow/talk to trends downstream to the re-sale cycle ("hey, the Esoterica is bought up but man this Sam Gawith is the top-tier...etc".). Educated buyers in other markets get pretty hip to the back-story/selling angle of whatever hobby....heck a decade ago I had table of Beijing businessmen talk to me about the virtues of Heaven Hill for an hour. Again, completely academic/irrelevant navel-gazing to the main point that limted supply/low retail price....you're going to have sell-out market on desired items.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

To your point, overall pipe tobacco is a fairly limited supply good that retails at a relatively low price. Where ever demand comes from, it won't take that many bodies/that much $ at retail value (sans tin-limits) to wipe out at a release if enough folks want it. Can domestic demand wipe out releases on its own...for sure I'd believe that. The only point about non-domestic buying...if something like Sagebrush's take is true...is that the very few biggest name blends (ala' Penzance') are not going to be sufficient to satisfy demand in a hot market. Folks in the re-sell chain are going to want to keep making big mark-up $'s and customers need product......domestic buyers would follow/talk to trends downstream to the re-sale cycle ("hey, the Esoterica is bought up but man this Sam Gawith is the top-tier...etc".). Educated buyers in other markets get pretty hip to the back-story/selling angle of whatever hobby....heck a decade ago I had table of Beijing businessmen talk to me about the virtues of Heaven Hill for an hour. Again, completely academic/irrelevant navel-gazing to the main point that limted supply/low retail price....you're going to have sell-out market on desired items.

Agreed. The nouveau riche in China are looking for ways to spend their newly acquired wealth. And show it off. I do not question this is a significant factor in the limited availability and crazy secondary market pricing for blends such as Penzance and Stonehaven. I do think Domestic demand is the primary reason for most of the shortages though. Even when one of the Manufacturer's release a special edition with 5,000 tins, it can sell out in a day or two. I'd wager these Retailers aren't getting anywhere close to 5,000 tins or even 500 tins of each F&T, SG, Wessex blends when they ship.

 

[lawdawg]

I've smoked several of the unobtanium blends and have a few in my cellar. There are so many good readily-available blends out there that I don't even mess with the super-hard-to-find stuff anymore.

 

[Worknman]

I understand its in good faith, but this idea that prices shouldn't be raised to reflect demand is misguided imo. You may make think its unfair to people that want the blend but don't want to (or can't) pay a high price. Its also not fair when 10,000 people are trying to get their hands on the last few dozen tins in stock and it goes to the people with the fastest internet connections and who can type in a credit card number the fastest.

The average pipe smoker isn't rich, they're hard working people like everyone else; some may enjoy a blend so much they're willing to pay extra with their hard earned dollars. Why should that same blend go to someone who may not even care for it that much, they're just buying it because its cheap and they were at the right place at the exact right time.

Alot of people will tell you the unobtainables aren't even necessarily THAT much better than anything else out there. If you're broke, there's still plenty of other great blends you can afford and still enjoy. Let the collectors pay collector prices if they so choose

 

[ofafeather]

I understand its in good faith, but this idea that prices shouldn't be raised to reflect demand is misguided imo. You may make think its unfair to people that want the blend but don't want to (or can't) pay a high price. Its also not fair when 10,000 people are trying to get their hands on the last few dozen tins in stock and it goes to the people with the fastest internet connections and who can type in a credit card number the fastest.

The average pipe smoker isn't rich, they're hard working people like everyone else; some may enjoy a blend so much they're willing to pay extra with their hard earned dollars. Why should that same blend go to someone who may not even care for it that much, they're just buying it because its cheap and they were at the right place at the exact right time.

Alot of people will tell you the unobtainables aren't even necessarily THAT much better than anything else out there. If you're broke, there's still plenty of other great blends you can afford and still enjoy. Let the collectors pay collector prices if they so choose

I think that’s the way that B&Ms can make a big difference. Here in NY I have to pay 75% tobacco tax plus 8% sales tax but if I can find a B&M still in business I may be able to find some tins that are hard to find online. The nearest one is over an hour from me and they may stop carrying tins because of the excise tax.

 

[tkcolo]

I've been successful with email alerts, with the exception of Penzance or Stonehaven. I'm not crazy about Penzance, and I'm not even trying my one tin of Stonehaven until I find a way to affordably get more. I got back into pipe smoking early enough to buy a bunch of Mcclelland's, but I hadn't tried many when they crapped out. So, I'm just saving the rest for a pick me up in darker times. Keep trying with the email alerts. Just be ready to react as soon as you receive the emails.

 

[garageboy]

Wealthy Chinese dudes love their pipes. One of the Nat Sherman guys told me that's their main clientele for high end castellos etc. Chinese luxury is also about brand names and rarity. As a poor Chinese American, I'm not even sure if they necessarily like the guy end good they're consuming, but they pay for it

 

[mordy18]

This wessex stuff must be some good sht. Someone was kind enough to PM me to tell me it was available earlier in the day at two other online retailers. I saw the PMs an hour or so after they were sent .... Gone! LOL.

As for pricing, the retailers are or course entitled to do what they think makes business sense, and the point Hoosier made - about the standard pricing for high demand blends generating larger orders - makes sense. But it is unusual. Pricing usually is related to demand. It probably would also make sense for retailers to auction the high demand stuff.

 

[cigrmaster]

I am glad the Chinese are buying up all the expensive ugly ass pipes on the market. The sheer numbers of stupid looking pipes has never been higher. I don't think I have ever seen so many artisan turn out so many ugly misshapen pipes that go for over a grand. If they are stupid enough to buy them then good for the makers. It might keep them in business for another year or two.

I have been watching artisan made pipes for going on 20 years and I have never seen such shit. Shitty grain, lousy blasts, shapes that are so poorly done you cannot even tell what the shape is.

What I also find amusing is pipes with a 1.2 inch bowl height and a .9 inch bowl depth. Gee that is what I want, an 7 minute smoke. And they charge 1500 plus for them. Sorry if anyone gets insulted but most of you make shit. You know who you are and are laughing your asses off as you sell that crap to the Chinese. And funniest thing of all most of these clowns couldn't carve a great looking billiard if their life depended ion it. The old Danes like Former, Jess, the retired Bang boys, Balleby, and a few other still know how to carve a pipe, and there a re a few more. Their work is selling over their and prices reflect the demand when they are listed on the US market. The majority of the rest better not quit their day jobs. Even a like Joura is selling alleged Infinities for top dollar. and the grain sucks.

I cannot remember seeing a Castello Fiammata in ages that deserved the Fiammata stamp. I have seen many lame Occhio sdi Pernice,. The Chinese will buy anything it seems. Good for them.
You guys are not the reason there are shortages of the flakes and other desirable are always out of stock, When I built my cellar in 2012-2013 there was no social media no reddit, no face book no insta gram., You have thousands of idiots buying tobacco they have never smoked just because they heard it was the thing to get. The people who buy the GH rose and geranium flavored stuff have not even tired most of it,. I would love too see their faces when they have pounds of shit they hate.

I didn't cellar a blend until I was sure it was winner. Not an average smoke I could live with but blends I loved. I will never understand how any one settles for an average smoke to save ..30 cents a bowl. The best pipe tobacco in the US is dirt cheap compared to cigars and cigarettes.
Smoke your favorites buy quality stuff and don't smoke something you are just meh about. Life is to short for boring tobacco especially if you are only smoking a few times a week.

When I warned everyone in 2012 and 2013 that you better build your cellar now because the shit was coming , I was called crazy, an alarmist, and asshole that I had no idea what I was talking about. Things are much different now than back them. I am glad I looked forward especially for blends I had a feeling would not be easy or even still being made. I had no limits back then and knew that wouldn't last. People would complain when a blend went out of stick in a few days. Now they go out of stick in a few minutes. Welcome to 2020.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Why should that same blend go to someone who may not even care for it that much, they're just buying it because its cheap and they were at the right place at the exact right time.

Because first come, first serve is how marketing works. Online Penzance bags have gone up $30 in the past five years. The same people are buying them, and resales are even higher as a result. If the online retail price goes up, the same people are going to repeat the process and again, the secondary market price will go up. I gave away a few pounds of it on here last year from B&M bags purchased for $28. Not at the right place or time, just spent a lot of time calling B&Ms to find it.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I seem to recall somebody getting really beat up on here a couple years ago for suggesting manufacturers should raise their prices to make supply equal demand.

Esoterica people :: Pipe Tobacco Discussion

Maybe there is a chance someone from that company is reading this. You could consider an increase of your prices to $30 for 2oz and $80 for 8oz. It would accomplish two things, gives us mere mortals a chance to try your blends and secondly reduce the incentive (profit) from reselling your...

pipesmagazine.com

 

[lawdawg]

I didn't cellar a blend until I was sure it was winner. Not an average smoke I could live with but blends I loved. I will never understand how any one settles for an average smoke to save ..30 cents a bowl. The best pipe tobacco in the US is dirt cheap compared to cigars and cigarettes.
Smoke your favorites buy quality stuff and don't smoke something you are just meh about. Life is to short for boring tobacco especially if you are only smoking a few times a week.

My thoughts / philosophy exactly, both for pipe tobacco and other consumables (beer, scotch, bourbon, cigars). However, I will add that there is a time and place for the cheap stuff. For example, if I'm on my third (or fourth and so on) glass of bourbon, then I'm probably at the point where to my taste, the distinction between the fancy single barrel and the run-of-the-mill decent dram is lost on me. Same goes with pipes etc.

 

[ofafeather]

My thoughts / philosophy exactly, both for pipe tobacco and other consumables (beer, scotch, bourbon, cigars). However, I will add that there is a time and place for the cheap stuff. For example, if I'm on my third (or fourth and so on) glass of bourbon, then I'm probably at the point where to my taste, the distinction between the fancy single barrel and the run-of-the-mill decent dram is lost on me. Same goes with pipes etc.

And there’s a limit to the premium I’m willing to pay, especially based on consumption. There are so many great products in that middle realm between drugstore and exclusive in every product market.

My wife and I were at a home show once. It was small and featured more upscale and artisan vendors. There was this one furniture maker whose work were admiring. He made everything from scratch: cut the lumber, forged the steel, hunted and cured the leather and his stuff was amazing. Out of curiosity we asked how much a campaign style chair that he had there which had all three elements. We knew it would be way out of any price range we would consider. He started to answer “six....” and immediately we were like, “uh huh. 6 grand. I knew it was way out of our league”. He continued his answer, “...teen thousand.” ? $16,000?!?! For 1 chair. Guess this falls into the “if you have to ask the price” category.

 

[lawdawg]

And there’s a limit to the premium I’m willing to pay, especially based on consumption. There are so many great products in that middle realm between drugstore and exclusive in every product market.

My wife and I were at a home show once. It was small and featured more upscale and artisan vendors. There was this one furniture maker whose work were admiring. He made everything from scratch: cut the lumber, forged the steel, hunted and cured the leather and his stuff was amazing. Out of curiosity we asked how much a campaign style chair that he had there which had all three elements. We knew it would be way out of any price range we would consider. He started to answer “six....” and immediately we were like, “uh huh. 6 grand. I knew it was way out of our league”. He continued his answer, “...teen thousand.” ? $16,000?!?! For 1 chair. Guess this falls into the “if you have to ask the price” category.

Agreed. In pretty much everything I buy, I look for the point where price meets quality, above which you encounter drastically diminishing returns.

 

[BROBS]

I may sound salty, but it's not because I can't have the tobacco I want, it is because it rubs me very wrongly to see things bought with no understanding about what the hell they are, as long as someone else considers them high end.

that's how most things are done in that country.. in case you haven't noticed.

 

[BROBS]

A decade ago I did a lot of business in China and never saw anyone smoking a 'western' style briar pipe. I can't find any articles on the internet talking about Chinese (modern/western) pipe smoking......but there's been a huge growth in the last decade in the general 'luxury' spend' audience there and I don't think there's any doubt that *pipes* flow to that market in large number (tobacco buying, ala' what Sablebrush wrote above, is all anecdotal for me). Just five minutes ago I was browsing Blue Room Briars and caught this in an artisan header:

"It's not hard to spot a Rosengren pipe. Jonas has a unique aesthetic that is very much his own. Some of his signature shapes are the globe and his unique take on the blowfish. The fit and finish on his pipes is simply immaculate, as good as anything we've seen on the market or better. Jonas mostly uses high quality ebonite and Mediterranean briar, but the adornments can range from horn to many varieties of exotic and precious woods. Jonas makes truly heirloom pipes.

Most of Jonas' production has been going to the Chinese market, which has gleefuly gobbled up just about everything he can produce. We were lucky to get our hands on a few."

...I've heard that a lot from artisan makers/retailers non-stop for the two years I've been back in the pipe world. The dude above pipe's go for $1K+ for reference.

Note...none of this is stating it's keeping me from getting/buying what I want. I've got no issue there, and strictly personally....I'd tell new pipers to not even bother chasing rare blends. Pipe tobacco is such a subtle 'taste'...influenced easily by so many other factors....that frankly 'biggest name' blends rarely squeak ahead (if at all) of 'common' blends in taste/experience. Really it's down to personal favorite vs. availability....and I've found variations in blend/batch can be even more a stumble than straight availability. My points around the Chinese market is simply that either there's a sizable non-domestic demand for higher end pipes/pipe tobacco or this hobby is unique in having folks keeps keep expensive hauls under the radar (no social/secondary market to scale compared to other vices). I've seen dozens of $500-$1K+ pipes fly off sites weekly for two years now....that's some real-deal $ demand for a hobby that typically you don't encounter off of a few specific message boards or a local club.

excellent points.

maybe they have to keep the luxury and pipe tobacco/pipes etc hidden from the internet lest they be hassled by their government in some way?