Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[warren]

It doesn't take a lot of armchair quarterbacking to put together the pieces....

Very true if any of us actually had the pieces to do so. None of us do so, we fill in the blanks if we, many do, need to fill that void and require a logical conclusion that will satisfy our desire for an answer.

As we only know what the press shares we can only make suppositions as none of us have any facts only, for want of a better term, "hearsay." So, the mind, disliking mysteries, fills in the blanks based on information/rumor/hearsay/opinions available. Nary a one of us possesses any facts, only what the media has provided, hardly the kind of information to make conclusions with. But, the mind/brain detests "blank" spaces and so we make it up as we go, filling in those "damnable" blanks as logically as he can.

There is a reason eye=witnesses are considered unreliable with supporting evidence. An "eye witness", who really only saw the vehicles separating after impact will tell the interviewer exactly how the collision happened, his mind filled in the unseen information. The witness will fully believe he saw what he, in fact, didn't.

There isn't a person alive who, at this time, can tell, reliably, what caused the implosion at this point in time. Design error? A collision with Titanic wreckage which would be operator error possible or another failure of some on-board equipment? On the outer edge of possibility, actions by passenger or crew, intentionally causing the implosion. My mind boggles at the possibilities not one of which can be excluded at this time. An in-depth investigation will provide possibly any number of possible causes or, with luck, the exact cause. Lots of time for supported conclusions.

 

[woodsroad]

I read that the hull was made from corn cob, even though they were warned that briar would be more durable.

 

[FurCoat]

Wow that is so true isn't it?

There's a harsh reality for ya

 

[warren]

Even the US Navy won't state definitely that sounds picked up were, in fact, the implosion at this time. Their devices did in fact pick up such sounds an hour or so into the vessel's dive. Logic says it was. Experience says ... possibly.

James Cameron has now weighed in with his opinions. He has considerable related experiences and so far, seems to have the most realistic take on vessel, designer, etc. to date.

 

[woodsroad]

Very true if any of us actually had the pieces to do so. None of us do so, we fill in the blanks if we, many do, need to fill that void and require a logical conclusion that will satisfy our desire for an answer.

As we only know what the press shares we can only make suppositions as none of us have any facts only, for want of a better term, "hearsay." So, the mind, disliking mysteries, fills in the blanks based on information/rumor/hearsay/opinions available. Nary a one of us possesses any facts, only what the media has provided, hardly the kind of information to make conclusions with. But, the mind/brain detests "blank" spaces and so we make it up as we go, filling in those "damnable" blanks as logically as he can.

There is a reason eye=witnesses are considered unreliable with supporting evidence. An "eye witness", who really only saw the vehicles separating after impact will tell the interviewer exactly how the collision happened, his mind filled in the unseen information. The witness will fully believe he saw what he, in fact, didn't.

There isn't a person alive who, at this time, can tell, reliably, what caused the implosion at this point in time. Design error? A collision with Titanic wreckage which would be operator error possible or another failure of some on-board equipment? On the outer edge of possibility, actions by passenger or crew, intentionally causing the implosion. My mind boggles at the possibilities not one of which can be excluded at this time. An in-depth investigation will provide possibly any number of possible causes or, with luck, the exact cause. Lots of time for supported conclusions.

Eventually, a timeline will emerge. The WSJ often does an exceptional job of compiling those sort of things.

 

[UB 40]

Shit happens!

 

[Jaylotw]

Even the US Navy won't state definitely that sounds picked up were, in fact, the implosion at this time. Their devices did in fact pick up such sounds an hour or so into the vessel's dive. Logic says it was. Experience says ... possibly.

James Cameron has now weighed in with his opinions. He has considerable related experiences and so far, seems to have the most realistic take on vessel, designer, etc. to date.

They've said that since they've deployed sonobouys, they've heard no indication of an implosion, so it must've happened before they were listening. They've also said that the debris is in an area with no Titanic debris and consistent with the last known position of the sub, and consistent with an implosion in the water column.

That's not hearsay, that's right out of the mouths of the Coast Guard and the experts looking at the debris. You can watch the entire briefing on YouTube.

James Cameron's thoughts are valuable. He's being nice, but essentially saying what we've all been thinking...the carbon fiber hull was a death trap.

 

[sablebrush52]

Come back in a few months and maybe there will be well documented solution to what happened.

 

[Briar Lee]

Even the US Navy won't state definitely that sounds picked up were, in fact, the implosion at this time. Their devices did in fact pick up such sounds an hour or so into the vessel's dive. Logic says it was. Experience says ... possibly.

James Cameron has now weighed in with his opinions. He has considerable related experiences and so far, seems to have the most realistic take on vessel, designer, etc. to date.

In 1963 when the Thresher was lost I was barely five, but remember the horror on the faces of the adults at the Humansville Christian Church at the sure knowledge a grandson of one of our elders had been crushed while on station.

Even in 1963 the Navy detected the implosion.

It took a year longer to investigate the cause.

I used to know all their names, of the Christian boys who died in service.

Today I only remember Coxswain Urban Herschel Marlow, who died on station at the helm of the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor.

non ministrari sed ministrare

 

[warren]

James Cameron's thoughts are valuable. He's being nice, but essentially saying what we've all been thinking...the carbon fiber hull was a death trap.

I didn't see any definitive statement to that effect. He has enough knowledge to voice his observation very carefully, no statement as to what he even thinks might have occurred. Nothing, nada, zilch. Really only observing the irony of it all as he sees it. Not one mention of carbon fiber or any other specific with regards to the submersible. He thought it too experimental for passengers but, he never stated any proble cause for the implosion. There's all sorts of suppositions all over but, again, no body knows. Just a lot of postulations and such. It'll take time to get answers, if ever certainty is found.

But, opinions being free and simply that, everyone should feel free to ... postulate.

 

[AJL67]

Reading this thread, I am comforted that we have experts here that, if consulted, will ensure that nothing-will-ever-go-wrong-in-the-world-ever-again. Gentlemen, your post-hoc expertise is breathless in scope and your hindsight remarkably perfect! Please take a bow!

You are more than welcome and I for one am happy that i will enable you to sleep sounder at night!

 

[AJL67]

No 50 yr old white guys with Naval Submarine experience were lost in this tragic accident.

 

[Jaylotw]

I didn't see any definitive statement to that effect. He has enough knowledge to voice his observation very carefully, no statement as to what he even thinks might have occurred. Nothing, nada, zilch. Really only observing the irony of it all as he sees it. Not one mention of carbon fiber or any other specific with regards to the submersible. He thought it too experimental for passengers but, he never stated any proble cause for the implosion. There's all sorts of suppositions all over but, again, no body knows. Just a lot of postulations and such. It'll take time to get answers, if ever certainty is found.

But, opinions being free and simply that, everyone should feel free to ... postulate.

At ~6:30 he says

"It was predicated on a fundamentally flawed design principle-a carbon fiber hull."

He also said, in regards to composite hulls that

"Someone is going to get killed."

 

[anotherbob]

some accidents are just idiotic some aren't and some are idiotic from one end and not the other. This one while sad like most avoidable deaths in my opinion came from putting faith in ones fantasies over reality and risk assessment. And there are so often in these events the thought of how bad some people are at reading other people. The head of the company had a strong stench of over confidence and a host of screws loose. I guess the lesson is the more there is to lose the more reason there is to be careful who and what you trust in. Hopefully some good comes out of this.

 

[anotherbob]

No 50 yr old white guys with Naval Submarine experience were lost in this tragic accident.

of course not. They'd have stayed the hell away from it. You see virtue signaling and I see a con man waving away concern with a palatable explanation. I am hiring inexperienced people not because anyone who knows what they're doing wants nothing to do with this, but for some "noble" reason. That's what I see in this scenario. And it amazes me that four people could have it shoved in their face and not see it.

 

[warren]

"It was predicated on a fundamentally flawed design principle-a carbon fiber hull."

I stand corrected. Mea culpa! I don't do "YouTube" as a rule. Perhaps I should loosen that rule a bit.

 

[Briar Lee]

No 50 yr old white guys with Naval Submarine experience were lost in this tragic accident.

Nobody should ever make any racial comments. Grievance culture today forbids it. Too many people are easily offended and unwilling to understand the humor.

Yet it’s obvious what he was implying.

The average naval engineer is middle aged, and he works designing naval vessels where cost is hardly considered.

The fatal mistake was a composite hull not the lighting from Camper World or the X box controls.

Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters

Manned deepsea exploration calls for a highly engineered composites solution that saves weight and preserves life — at 6,500-psi service pressure.

www.compositesworld.com

The hull was in fact made by middle aged guys.

It worked very well, until it didn’t.

 

[Zero]

Nobody should ever make any racial comments. Grievance culture today forbids it. Too many people are easily offended and unwilling to understand the humor.

Yet it’s obvious what he was implying.

The average naval engineer is middle aged, and he works designing naval vessels where cost is hardly considered.

The fatal mistake was a composite hull not the lighting from Camper World or the X box controls.

Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters

Manned deepsea exploration calls for a highly engineered composites solution that saves weight and preserves life — at 6,500-psi service pressure.

www.compositesworld.com

The hull was in fact made by middle aged guys.

It worked very well, until it didn’t.

I always check my batteries and bring a backup set before embarking on any missions. A backup controller as well. -50yr old white guy

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

They've said that since they've deployed sonobouys, they've heard no indication of an implosion, so it must've happened before they were listening. They've also said that the debris is in an area with no Titanic debris and consistent with the last known position of the sub, and consistent with an implosion in the water column.

That's not hearsay, that's right out of the mouths of the Coast Guard and the experts looking at the debris. You can watch the entire briefing on YouTube.

James Cameron's thoughts are valuable. He's being nice, but essentially saying what we've all been thinking...the carbon fiber hull was a death trap.

The more I read from Cameron it’s “I told you so, I knew they were dead Sunday, the search was a mess and waste of time ….” - comes off pretty arrogant and all-knowing with a lot of what he says although he has real experience. But, his opinions are his opinions.

 

[Jaylotw]

I stand corrected. Mea culpa! I don't do "YouTube" as a rule. Perhaps I should loosen that rule a bit.

I try not to much, either, but stuff like this that fascinates me I like to hear it straight out of the horses mouth. I suggest you check out the coast guard statement, too, if you're interested. It's up in full.