Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[AJL67]

So the Navy registered the sound of the implosion sunday right around time the sub communication was lost yet they waited till today to mention it, nothing like something shiny to distract they masses of idiots from the shit storm that is brewing in DC

 

[Briar Lee]

One of my other passions besides pipes is old shotguns, especially black powder era shotguns.

From about 1890 to 1914 American industry imported millions of welded steel and iron composite barrel tubes from Belgium and they hardly ever fail, even today, using modern loads they weren’t designed for.

Black powder produces chamber pressure of about 6,000 psi. Any old composite barrel will shoot those forever, if it’s in good condition.

Modern smokeless loads average 10,000 psi. Shoot those long enough in a Damascus gun and it will blow up. It may take 50,000 shots or 500, but it will fail.

Yet every shoot you see guys feeding modern shells to old twist barrel guns.

I just don’t get close to them.

A laminated composite submersible hull someday will delaminate.

The monitor systems failed, too.

 

[Jaylotw]

The more I read from Cameron it’s “I told you so, I knew they were dead Sunday, the search was a mess and waste of time ….” - comes off pretty arrogant and all-knowing with a lot of what he says although he has real experience. But, his opinions are his opinions.

Hes a known arrogant weenie and I totally agree with you on that, but he DOES know his stuff in regards to submersibles and the Titanic wreck...he's one of 21 people, and the only person to go solo to the Challenger Deep and designed his own sub to do so, so I'm inclined to give his opinions heavy weight...and his opinions combined with what we know about lawsuits, open letters pleading with Oceangate to not deploy the Titan sub, and the owners own words regarding his experimental design and flippant attitude towards safety, and the Coast Guard's press briefing today and it's pretty clear how this happened.

 

[Briar Lee]

So the Navy registered the sound of the implosion sunday right around time the sub communication was lost yet they waited till today to mention it, nothing like something shiny to distract they masses of idiots from the shit storm that is brewing in DC

No, they told the exploration company and the Coast Guard on Sunday.
—-

CNN) — The US Navy detected an acoustic signature consistent with an implosion on Sunday in the general area where the Titanic-bound submersible was diving when it lost communication with its mother ship, a senior Navy official told CNN Thursday.

The Navy then immediately relayed that information to the on-scene commanders leading the search effort, and it was used to narrow down the area of the search, the official said.

But the sound of the implosion was determined to be “not definitive,” the official said, and the multinational efforts to find the submersible continued as a search and rescue effort. “Any chance of saving a life is worth continuing the mission,” the official said. The Wall Street Journal was first to report about the acoustic signature picked up by the Navy.

—

But until the craft was found there were only certain confidence levels it was an implosion.

The record will show, that at the last possible time there could have been oxygen the implosion was verified.

No offense to the rest of the world, but America is the best nation that’s ever existed under the sun.

Who knows how many souls knew, it likely was an implosion and yet didn’t blab?

Consider this.

If there was a 90% confidence level an implosion had been detected and the rescue abandoned, if next year an intact hull full of corpses had been discovered, what then?

America gets it right.

Bravo!

 

[Jaylotw]

So the Navy registered the sound of the implosion sunday right around time the sub communication was lost yet they waited till today to mention it, nothing like something shiny to distract they masses of idiots from the shit storm that is brewing in DC

It's a top secret system, and they also couldn't verify what the sound was. The Navy informed the Coast Guard of the sound when the search began. There weren't any ROVs or submersibles on site to investigate the sound, anyway, until today, so the search could only be conducted on the surface.

 

[renfield]

I’ve done structural analysis on composite pressure vessels (airplane fuselages).

It’s certainly possible to design and build a composite hull for a submarine but there are a lot of technical reasons not to unless you are willing and able to do it right.

The manufacture and initial inspections required would be very, very difficult, just for starters. Never mind the difficulty of properly designing and executing the mechanical joining of the composite and Ti parts.

Assuming you’d gotten the thing built successfully you would also have to develop a program of periodic non-destructive inspections over the life of the sub to verify continued integrity.

Lacking that you’d need a test program and analysis to establish a safe life after which the sub is retired.

Possible but very difficult and hard to see what advantages composites offer over metals in this case.

Catastrophic failures almost always have their origin at some secondary failures not originally anticipated.

 

[Jaylotw]

I’ve done structural analysis on composite pressure vessels (airplane fuselages).

It’s certainly possible to design and build a composite hull for a submarine but there are a lot of technical reasons not to unless you are willing and able to do it right.

The manufacture and initial inspections required would be very, very difficult, just for starters. Never mind the difficulty of properly designing and executing the mechanical joining of the composite and Ti parts.

Assuming you’d gotten the thing built successfully you would also have to develop a program of periodic non-destructive inspections over the life of the sub to verify continued integrity.

Lacking that you’d need a test program and analysis to establish a safe life after which the sub is retired.

Possible but very difficult and hard to see what advantages composites offer over metals in this case.

Catastrophic failures almost always have their origin at some secondary failures not originally anticipated.

Oceangate fired one of their engineers after he insisted on nondestructive inspections. They sued each other and settled.

Do you think that this carbon fiber hull would've crumbled or shattered?

 

[fireground_piper]

Oceangate fired one of their engineers after he insisted on nondestructive inspections. They sued each other and settled.

Do you think that this carbon fiber hull would've crumbled or shattered?

Makes me think of the carbon fiber air bottles in the fire service. They require hydrostatic testing every 5 years and mandatory retirement after 15 years regardless of test results.

 

[ashdigger]

Oceangate fired one of their engineers after he insisted on nondestructive inspections. They sued each other and settled.

Do you think that this carbon fiber hull would've crumbled or shattered?

Here’s your answer.

 

[Briar Lee]

The "hull monitoring system" was a way for Oceangate to avoid having the hull scanned...because the first time they had it scanned, it showed signs of cyclic fatigue and had to be rebuilt.

As far as seeing if the weights were dropped, I'd wager that it would be nearly impossible to tell.

Now that the craft has been located it’s likely they bring up every piece, maybe even some remains of the occupants.

At 13,000 feet down there is no current, hardly any marine life, and it’s essentially a true void.

The weights had to be fastened with some kind of deployment system. If still fastened when implosion occurred the fasteners might be ripped off.

The wreckage lies over a quarter mile, 1600 feet from Titanic’s bow. If the weights aren’t in the middle of the debris field maybe they can tell they were dropped.

And just like when an airplane crashes, they’ll figure out exactly where the failure was in the hull, and the likely cause.

It’s been said the hull was rebuilt.

How? By wrapping more carbon fiber around titanium? Did that delaminate? They ought to be able to tell.


It should give us armchair marine engineers something to discuss.

 

[gubbyduffer]

No 50 yr old white guys with Naval Submarine experience were lost in this tragic accident.

Paul Henri Nargeolet. The French Navy deep sea diver and the man dubbed 'Mr Titanic'.
Paul-Henri Nargeolet - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet

Read his career. You don't get much more experienced than that. You are correct though. He wasn't 50yo. He was 77.

 

[Jaylotw]

Now that the craft has been located it’s likely they bring up every piece, maybe even some remains of the occupants.

At 13,000 feet down there is no current, hardly any marine life, and it’s essentially a true void.

The weights had to be fastened with some kind of deployment system. If still fastened when implosion occurred the fasteners might be ripped off.

The wreckage lies over a quarter mile, 1600 feet from Titanic’s bow. If the weights aren’t in the middle of the debris field maybe they can tell they were dropped.

And just like when an airplane crashes, they’ll figure out exactly where the failure was in the hull, and the likely cause.

It’s been said the hull was rebuilt.

How? By wrapping more carbon fiber around titanium? Did that delaminate? They ought to be able to tell.


It should give us armchair marine engineers something to discuss.

I hate to be morbid and gross but...

There's nothing left of those guys.

An implosion at that depth is so violent and forceful that it causes the air inside the sub to ignite and reach an incredible temperature. It would literally liquefy a human. Atomize them.

You can watch the Rear Admiral squirm when they asked him about recovering bodies.

 

[mikethompson]

No offense to the rest of the world, but America is the best nation that’s ever existed under the sun.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

View attachment 229095

LOL, credit to Canada for providing the tech that located the debris.

 

[fireground_piper]

LOL, credit to Canada for providing the tech that located the debris.

Ehhh wasn’t it them who heard the banging noise……that wasn’t the crew because they were already imploded but caused everyone to seen even more equipment into the area?

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

Ehhh wasn’t it them who heard the banging noise……that wasn’t the crew because they were already imploded but caused everyone to seen even more equipment into the area?

Referring to the Rover deployed from a Canadian ship, of course.

Otherwise, not interested in picking apart any aspect of a search effort where I’m sure all who were involved were serious and diligent about their task.

 

[mikethompson]

The task in question was one I certainly couldn't do. I'm glad there is at least some closure for the families involved.

I keep thinking about the father/son down there

 

[AJL67]

Paul Henri Nargeolet. The French Navy deep sea diver and the man dubbed 'Mr Titanic'.
Paul-Henri Nargeolet - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet

Read his career. You don't get much more experienced than that. You are correct though. He wasn't 50yo. He was 77.

He doesn’t count, he is er was French.


Oh, and I just saw that since it operated in international waters, that’s why it didn’t need to be certified or regulated or anything else, if it was operating, an American waters are Canadian waters. The Coast Guard would’ve had to certify that piece of shit and have regulations and everything like that.

 

[Briar Lee]

I hate to be morbid and gross but...

There's nothing left of those guys.

An implosion at that depth is so violent and forceful that it causes the air inside the sub to ignite and reach an incredible temperature. It would literally liquefy a human. Atomize them.

You can watch the Rear Admiral squirm when they asked him about recovering bodies.

The reason America is the shining city on the hill and the last great hope for mankind, is they’ll search for a piece of clothing or a ring or a dental filling or the slightest trace of those men.

We still identify the remains of our war dead from eighty years ago, when we can.

And 60% of the dead on 9/11 have been identified, so far.

Forensic investigators work to give 9/11 families peace as they ID Ground Zero remains

Twenty-one years after the Sept. 11 attacks, forensic scientists are still hard at work identifying remains found at Ground Zero.

abcnews.go.com

We respect the dead.

There wasn’t much left of Knute Rockne, either, but America held him a big funeral.

 

[gubbyduffer]

We respect the dead.

If that were the case, there would be NO commercial diving of the Titanic.