Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[warren]

Since we know nothing really about the vessel and its' build, it's nice to have complete evaluation of the vessel available to all of the members. My thanks. All we really know is there was a law suit. The designer and employees were sometimes at odds, the vessel imploded for an as yet undetermined reason. So, we take media provided information or, as I prefer, unsubstantiated "click bait", and, in some of our minds have resolved all the questions. We now fully understand the causes. Some here are going to be sore in the morning from all jumping to conclusions.

To be sure it was a compelling story as it unfolded. Facts will follow in the next few months or so. Will, the media care? Will the general public still be interested? Stay tuned!

 

[Briar Lee]

I think it is possible the implosion happened around the time that communications ended. The debris field took time to float up the two miles from near the bottom. Most of the pieces of the craft will probably be dispersed by currents and never be found, I'd guess.

I don’t know if any of the craft can float.

What’s been found so far is on the ocean floor next to the Titanic at 13,000 down.

—-

Five different major pieces of debris from the submersible, known as the “Titan,” were found in the area, and each end of the pressure hull was found in a different place, according to Paul Hankins, US Navy Director of Salvage Operations and Ocean Engineering.
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We are pipe smoking,armchair,wannabe, internet marine engineers.

Real marine engineers (mostly 50 year olds) who are so skilled and informed about these matters it’s almost beyond belief will issue a report and the cause of the failure will be determined.

It would seem to me, the pressure hull suffered from fatigue from just one dive too many.

But others will tell us.

 

[Navy Chief]

Since we know nothing really about the vessel and its' build, it's nice to have complete evaluation of the vessel available to all of the members. My thanks. All we really know is there was a law suit. The designer and employees were sometimes at odds, the vessel imploded for an as yet undetermined reason. So, we take media provided information or, as I prefer, unsubstantiated "click bait", and, in some of our minds have resolved all the questions. We now fully understand the causes. Some here are going to be sore in the morning from all jumping to conclusions.

To be sure it was a compelling story as it unfolded. Facts will follow in the next few months or so. Will, the media care? Will the general public still be interested? Stay tuned!

We do know that it is a relatively new submersible that was designed with checking the box for "not designed by a 50 year old white guy" as part of the design criteria. And wise decisions were made like, not having a wired control backup and relying on a Bluetooth game controller as primary control. We also know that an engineer who worked on on the project was fired for raising safety concerns .lawsuits still pending on that one.

It doesn't take a lot of armchair quarterbacking to put together the pieces....

 

[sablebrush52]

Catastrophic implosion. Found the Titan. No chance of survivors. Can't imagine dying of implosion. Just not forming a picture in my head.

Death in milliseconds. They wouldn't have had time to be aware or to feel it.

 

[Briar Lee]

We do know that it is a relatively new submersible that was designed with checking the box for "not designed by a 50 year old white guy" as part of the design criteria. And wise decisions were made like, not having a wired control backup and relying on a Bluetooth game controller as primary control. We also know that an engineer who worked on on the project was fired for raising safety concerns .lawsuits still pending on that one.

It doesn't take a lot of armchair quarterbacking to put together the pieces....

The pressure hull catastrophically failed.

I’ve read where the engineering specified a 4 1/2 thick hull and they used 5 inches.

For the pressure hull to fail so that both ends blew out the crew compartment was not fully flooded.

Fabrication of the carbon fiber and titanium hull was contracted.

The kid’s Play Station controller worked fine, until the pressure hull failed.

 

[bullet08]

I'm thinking more regulations will follow.

 

[Briar Lee]

Death in milliseconds. They wouldn't have had time to be aware or to feel it.

The much maligned engineers of the craft placed a constant hull monitoring system designed to warn the pilot of impending hull failure. Then he could drop the weights.

It will be interesting to see if the weights were dropped.

 

[Jaylotw]

We do know that it is a relatively new submersible that was designed with checking the box for "not designed by a 50 year old white guy" as part of the design criteria. And wise decisions were made like, not having a wired control backup and relying on a Bluetooth game controller as primary control. We also know that an engineer who worked on on the project was fired for raising safety concerns .lawsuits still pending on that one.

It doesn't take a lot of armchair quarterbacking to put together the pieces....

We also know that the hull was rebuilt after scans showed signs of cyclic fatigue, and that following that rebuild the owner (who appears to be a 50 year old white guy) refused to have the hull scanned but instead relied upon his own designed "hull monitoring system." We know that the front viewport was only rated to 1300 meters---thats the concern the engineer was fired over. The thing was a deathtrap.

 

[sablebrush52]

OceanGate issued one of those standard issue statements, "thoughts and prayers", we feel your pain, we'll do better in future, that sort of thing. If the remaining chief officers don't escape arrest for gross negligence or worse it will be a miracle. This company is dead.

 

[Jaylotw]

The much maligned engineers of the craft placed a constant hull monitoring system designed to warn the pilot of impending hull failure. Then he could drop the weights.

It will be interesting to see if the weights were dropped.

The "hull monitoring system" was a way for Oceangate to avoid having the hull scanned...because the first time they had it scanned, it showed signs of cyclic fatigue and had to be rebuilt.

As far as seeing if the weights were dropped, I'd wager that it would be nearly impossible to tell.

 

[Navy Chief]

The "hull monitoring system" was a way for Oceangate to avoid having the hull scanned...because the first time they had it scanned, it showed signs of cyclic fatigue and had to be rebuilt.

As far as seeing if the weights were dropped, I'd wager that it would be nearly impossible to tell.

I'm sure it was captured on their super robust data logging system that sure was part of the build...

 

[Jaylotw]

I'm sure it was captured on their super robust data logging system that sure was part of the build...

And good thing they had an EPIRB. Well, not that it would've done them much good when the hull imploded...but still...

I'm pretty sure I have more safety awareness on my 14' fishing boat...

 

[Briar Lee]

We also know that the hull was rebuilt after scans showed signs of cyclic fatigue, and that following that rebuild the owner (who appears to be a 50 year old white guy) refused to have the hull scanned but instead relied upon his own designed "hull monitoring system." We know that the front viewport was only rated to 1300 meters---thats the concern the engineer was fired over. The thing was a deathtrap.

——

There were five major different pieces of debris that led officials to realize those parts were from Titan, according to expert Paul Hanken.

"The initial thing we found was the nose cone, which was outside the pressure hull. We then found a large debris field, within that large debris field we found the front end bell of the pressure hull. That was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event," he said.

A second, smaller debris field was also found, which included the other end of the pressure hull, “which basically comprised the totality of that pressure vessel,” Hanken said.

—-

It seems the failure was of the walls of the pressure hull, and the observation portal and entrance hatch held.


Whatever firm contracted to fabricate the hull is looking up all their waivers and their insurance right this minute.

 

[Navy Chief]

——

There were five major different pieces of debris that led officials to realize those parts were from Titan, according to expert Paul Hanken.

"The initial thing we found was the nose cone, which was outside the pressure hull. We then found a large debris field, within that large debris field we found the front end bell of the pressure hull. That was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event," he said.

A second, smaller debris field was also found, which included the other end of the pressure hull, “which basically comprised the totality of that pressure vessel,” Hanken said.

—-

It seems the failure was of the walls of the pressure hull, and the observation portal and entrance hatch held.


Whatever firm contracted to fabricate the hull is looking up all their waivers and their insurance right this minute.

I'm betting they had them pulled on day one standing by for this moment ..

 

[Navy Chief]

And good thing they had an EPIRB. Well, not that it would've done them much good when the hull imploded...but still...

I'm pretty sure I have more safety awareness on my 14' fishing boat...

An auto deploying EPIRB would have at least saved a few days on searching...

 

[Briar Lee]

I'm thinking more regulations will follow.

According to international treaties each nation has a 12 mile territorial limit and a 200 mile economic exclusion area beyond the shore.

Where this happened was on the “high seas” outside of any nation’s regulations or legal authority.

Exclusive economic zone | Definition, Examples, Distance, International Law, EEZ, & Map | Britannica

Exclusive economic zone (EEZ), as defined under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), an area of the ocean extending up to 200 nautical miles (370 km) immediately offshore from a country’s land coast in which that country retains exclusive rights to the exploration and

www.britannica.com

If an exploration company was chartered in the USA, Canada, the UK, or other civilized nations they might regulate them, at least in home waters.

But who knows if any nation has authority to regulate submersibles on the high seas.

 

[jpberg]

I’m reading replies from a bunch of guys whose nuts are imprinted in their lazy boy.
Couple submariners, couple vets, and a whole bunch of wicked smart internet philosophers.
I’ll take the billionaires in the sub.

 

[Jaylotw]

According to international treaties each nation has a 12 mile territorial limit and a 200 mile economic exclusion area beyond the shore.

Where this happened was on the “high seas” outside of any nation’s regulations or legal authority.

Exclusive economic zone | Definition, Examples, Distance, International Law, EEZ, & Map | Britannica

Exclusive economic zone (EEZ), as defined under the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), an area of the ocean extending up to 200 nautical miles (370 km) immediately offshore from a country’s land coast in which that country retains exclusive rights to the exploration and

www.britannica.com

If an exploration company was chartered in the USA, Canada, the UK, or other civilized nations they might regulate them, at least in home waters.

But who knows if any nation has authority to regulate submersibles on the high seas.

That's kinda the thing...there's only maybe a dozen of these vessels in existence, regulating them on international waters is practically impossible. There are independent regulatory bodies from what I understand...but guess who ignored those regulatory bodies when said people sent a letter pleading with them to not use this sub?

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

View attachment 228978

Wow that is so true isn't it?

 

[Briar Lee]

An auto deploying EPIRB would have at least saved a few days on searching...

I wonder if any deep diving submersible has an automatic pinger.

A really top of the line dive watch is certified to a thousand feet.

Naval military submarines dive from about a thousand to three thousand feet.

The deep water explorers go down as far as 35,000 feet, although the Titanic is at 13,000 feet.

At 13,000 feet the pressure is nearly three tons per square inch.

A pinger that could stand three tons an inch pressure might be impractical if possible.

And if you put it inside, what good would it be in the event of a sudden hull collapse?