Pipe Smoking Study, It Doesn't Look Good.

[lawdawg]

Cosmic - You know, for a Southern hillbilly, you sure do have your screws down tight! I thought you were all a bunch of inbred nutters that are best to give a very wide berth to.

Hell, I might even sit down next to you in a bar and say hello. Maybe. Probably not. But good to know people like you exist down there.

I'm going to have to revisit my thinking on Southerners. And perhaps Americans in general... but one step at a time.

I've really enjoyed following this thread. I'm not commenting on the substance any more (it didn't go over well the first time), but I did want to chime in and say I like the cut of yer jib. And Warren too, who is not a curmudgeon, but shoots from the hip.

It's nice to see the balance.

Well I guess that's one way to pay a guy (and an entire country perhaps) a compliment... the British way sher

 

[olkofri]

I like all, but specially #2 and #1

#1 is frame and hang material!

 

[brian64]

Science is dead in politics.

Now if only politics was dead in science.

Too bad the public health lobby won’t have a nuanced view of these things.

Nuance is pretty much dead across the board in everything these days.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Now if only politics was dead in science

Amen to that!!!

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Tobacco use crosses all political lines. For many here, all personal grievances must stem from politics. It's much easier to blame libs or conservatives, republicans or dems, the "theys" and "thems" than it is to delve into a problem and discover the roots. Life is just much easier having a "them" to blame for all of one's disappointments in life. People are resistant to blaming themselves for their own shortcomings. Health Lobby? Studies? The general societal distaste for smoking has progressed way farther than studies ... people simply have a low regard for smoking and smokers. Which means smokers, a tiny minority, has no chance against the pressure society as a whole brings to the table.

I've said before, rather than rail and rant against circumstances, embrace your notoriety ... revel in the rebellion as you enjoy a bowl or stick.

I will fully support an outright ban on Cigarettes because they’re nothing but a drug delivery system, in that case it’s right to say that everyone else knows better than you because you are taking a mind altering drug. Cigarettes make you mentally ill, and you open yourself to intervention.
On the other hand Pipes and Cigars are recreational.
The fact that Mr. Schwarzenegger got his exemption for premium Cigar lounges proves that even in the most restrictive social climate there is a proper place for Tobacco.
Over the next century people will learn that there is a healthy balance of Tobacco exposure and eventually the radical aspect of anti-tobacco will go away.

 

[warren]

"Cigarettes make you mentally ill, and you open yourself to intervention."

Citations please to support your assertion.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Citations please to support your assertion

Hahaha, right? Although I do agree somewhat with the later point. Somewhat...

 

[cshubhra]

Cigarettes are harmful to your health but till date I have not seen any authoritative (or for that any material) which concludes that cigarettes make you mentally ill. A lot of very accomplished people in knowledge based careers do in fact smoke cigarettes. These kind of prejudices are dangerous

Cigarettes make you mentally ill, and you open yourself to intervention.

 

[brian64]

The fact that Mr. Schwarzenegger got his exemption for premium Cigar lounges proves that even in the most restrictive social climate there is a proper place for Tobacco.

 

[brian64]

My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it. People need somebody to watch over them. Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave.
--Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

"Cigarettes make you mentally ill, and you open yourself to intervention."

Citations please to support your assertion.

Being chemically addicted means your ability to think rationally is impaired. It doesn’t affect all of your decision making like being drunk, but it is mentally compromising.

 

[Worknman]

Good new everyone! Nicotine is not the most addictive substance in the world. At the very worst it's 3rd, behind heroin and cocaine. (Its exact position in the list differs depending on the source.) This probably isn't a newsflash to many of us.

I got a little chuckle from the post insisting that we are, without question, nicotine addicts for puffing on a couple bowls of pipe tobacco per day. I was reminded of the scene in "Half Baked" where Dave Chappelle, who's at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, tells the other attendees that he's addicted to marijuana. Bob Saget stands up and says, "Marijuana??? I used to s--- d--- for coke!!!"

Note: I didn't put the pipe smiley in my post, it appeared and won't go away.

Lol that scene in the movie had me cracking up for days.

 

[Worknman]

Also at what age are they die of these cancers that's a huge question too.

Exactly. My grandfather, who smoked cigarettes for 30 years before quitting for his remaining 40 years died of lung cancer. But he was 90 when he died! Hell anyone who lives long enough will likely eventually develop some sort of cancer.

 

[warren]

So, no citations to support your rather shocking assertion. Arrived at through independant thought or suggested by someone in a mental health field? I'm fascinated at how you arrived at such a contention.

 

[Worknman]

If you actually read the entire study you'll notice that they control for numerous factors and than lump everything together to reach their averages.

The statistics in the abstract therefore at the average from 1-2 bowl a day, non inhaling smokers whose bowls last 30 minutes, all the way up to 10 bowl a day, inhaling, 1 hour plus duration per bowl, who are also drinking 5+ alcoholic beverages a day.

If you read the entire thing and compare it to the 1964 surgeon general's report, which concluded that very moderate pipe smoking was a negligible/acceptable level of risk, the statistics from the sub groups in this study who only smoked 1-2 bowls per day, didn't inhale, and and didn't consume alcohol on a daily basis, the risks are, again, tangible but fairly negligible.

the "safe level of alcohol" 1 drink per day for women/2 for men also increases head and neck cancer risks by 30-40 percent according to many studies. This is similar to pipe smokings impact on the same cancers amongst pipe smoking non regular drinkers, according to this study.

The cultural precedent has been set for acceptable risk, as regards moderate alcohol. A pipe or two a day is fairly analogous.

Read the whole study, and make an informed decision regarding the risk. There is some risk, but other people, often the same ones who berate and chastise you for smoking a pipe, almost certainly have habits that carry similar levels of risk.

It is also worth noting that a baby aspirin a day lowers head and neck cancer rates by 30%+, in addition to it's cardiovascular benefits. The effect is most pronounced in moderate drinkers/smokers. Something to think about for risk mitigation.

I actually read it too but am having a hard time understanding what the numbers in the statistical analysis are actually saying. For example, what do these data points mean in laymans terms: "Current pipe smokers experienced statistically significantly higher death rates than never users from all causes (RR = 1.33, 95% CI = 1.27 to 1.39)"

In other words, how much more likely am I going to die vs. a non smoker given those findings?

 

[brian64]

Here ya go Warren...evidence caught on film (not sure what brand they're smokin'):

 

[Casual]

For example, what do these data points mean in laymans terms: "Current pipe smokers experienced statistically significantly higher death rates than never users from all causes (RR = 1.33, 95% CI = 1.27 to 1.39)"

In other words, how much more likely am I going to die vs. a non smoker given those findings?

That means that during the study, 4 pipe smokers died for every 3 non-smokers who died. That’s for any cause, not just cancer or COPD or smoking related things. And they’re relatively sure (19 times in 20) it isn’t just coincidence or a trick of the numbers.

Why or how isn’t captured, that’s a limitation of this sort of study.

 

[wulfheard]

I will fully support an outright ban on Cigarettes because they’re nothing but a drug delivery system, in that case it’s right to say that everyone else knows better than you because you are taking a mind altering drug. Cigarettes make you mentally ill, and you open yourself to intervention.
On the other hand Pipes and Cigars are recreational.
The fact that Mr. Schwarzenegger got his exemption for premium Cigar lounges proves that even in the most restrictive social climate there is a proper place for Tobacco.
Over the next century people will learn that there is a healthy balance of Tobacco exposure and eventually the radical aspect of anti-tobacco will go away.

I'm not going to get into the mentally ill assertion. I have no evidence to refute your claim and to some degree an addiction can be considered a mental illness. I don't like cigarettes either and I despise the companies that produce them, but what I will take issue with is your support for an outright ban on cigarettes. That is the same attitude expressed by a type of firearms owner who throws the rights of fellow gun owners under the bus for owning so called "assault weapons". Its a wrongheaded attitude and it's dangerous.

Either we are all concerned about the persecution of tobacco use, across the board, (that includes cigarettes) or we just give up entirely and let the government grab one more bit of control over our lives. The powers that would desparately like to see tobacco use completely eliminated see no difference in how the "devil weed" is delivered into the body. Once they eliminate cigarettes they will bring the full force of their power against the next form of tobacco use. And since we pipe smokers are such a small minority, our hobby, our passion, our enjoyment in life, will be casually swept away with the stroke of a pen, all for the sake of social engineering. Dividing tobacco users up into groups to be sacrificed by our very community plays into the hands of the enemy.

As Ben Franklin once said " We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Now I know that in this case Franklin's quote is a bit dramatic, but the premise is the same.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

The “all or nothing” attitude is the greatest risk to Pipesmoking.
The future of Cigarettes is absolutely certain, it won’t be long until Vaping has totally replaced that habit in society anyway, tying yourself to the Titanic won’t stop it from sinking.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Roll up some GH Dark Birdseye and you have yourself a cigarette my friend. The addicted brain will always find a way. As long as shag (or plugs for that matter) exists, so do cigarettes.