On How the Danish Will Destroy Everything We Hold Dear

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jorgesoler

Can't Leave
Dec 3, 2014
401
74
oh and our precious connoisseur blends by the way are also heavily processed too.

I am not entirely sure who you mean, but Daughters & Ryan's are not, for instance, or Germain's. The same applies to Gawith Hoggard, Samuel Gawith, Cornell & Diehl, etc. These manufacturers have an aromatic lineup as well, but they are not heavily processed or industrially produced.
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
I don't buy the non-aromatics good, aromatics bad, to the degree that is the premise, but I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth. I am definitely partial to the non-aromatics I like. They happen to be my first choice, my go-to blends. Some non-aromatics I don't like, find harsh or overbearing. Likewise with aromatics, my particular taste requires that the tobacco be at the center of the flavors and the added flavors just supplement or enhance that, the so-called tobacco forward aromatics. I enjoy variety, as I like full-strength blends in some bowls, and medium or mild in others, and I enjoy various aromatics as a change of pace. Some are focused entirely on non-aromatics, and others only like aromatics, as some rule out pouch and so-called codger blends, and others of us like some of those very much. Who makes it, who blends it, and how it is marketed is less important than how it burns and tastes to the consumer, and some subjectivity is always applied, as it should be. I'm not trying to be the voice of sweet reason here, just trying not to oversimplify or subscribe to dogma.
 

rajangan

Part of the Furniture Now
Feb 14, 2018
974
2,809
Edmonton, AB
Now you are making a different statement, but to answer your question I'd say the demand for low-quality leaf has an impact on producers who will try to satisfy that particular consumers' demand. I do not think there is a conspiracy behind Danish tobacco production to shut down artisan tobacco manufacturers, but no one can turn a blind eye to the knock-off effect. I worry about two things. 1. the overdominance of aromatic tobaccos and 2. non-aromatic smokers conforming with low-quality leaf.
I agree that if more buyers said they had a minimum quality index and were willing to give top dollar for it, that farmers would put in more effort to produce it.

But farming is really tough and I don't begrudge farmers for doing what's easiest and makes the most sense for them, given the extra manpower it takes to produce higher quality tobacco, and the uncertainty of whether it's worth it or not depending on mother nature.
 

rajangan

Part of the Furniture Now
Feb 14, 2018
974
2,809
Edmonton, AB
That is what I was thinking. I spent a summer grading cotton, and it was always some obscure thread fiber length to thickness ratio. Not anything that directly affects the way a finished piece of clothe feels or behaves.
In the tobacco auction, there is definitely quality assessment done on each bale. Standards include items such as colour, presence of weeds, and lamina intactness.
 

jorgesoler

Can't Leave
Dec 3, 2014
401
74
That is what I was thinking. I spent a summer grading cotton, and it was always some obscure thread fiber length to thickness ratio. Not anything that directly affects the way a finished piece of clothe feels or behaves.

So what is quality? Basically, is the result of a selection process after time. For example, what is a quality wine? A bottle of quality wine is a wine that has been properly aged and uses the best selection of grapes from a particular strain because of their intrinsic qualities. This is usually done by means of artificial selection in the cross-breeding process. The problem with me is, and I mean no disrespect with this, I am from southern Europe and I can tell a good quality serrano ham (acorn-fed pork) from crap (grain-fed pork), good Manchego cheese (grass-fed goat), from the industrially produced cheese they sell in the supermarket, and so on and so forth. But again, the appreciation of good things in life is something of an acquired taste.
 

edger

Lifer
Dec 9, 2016
2,988
22,299
74
Mayer AZ
The word "artisinal" comes to mind from reading this thread. One will always pay more for the attention to quality and uniqueness that an artisinal pipe represents, so why wouldn't the same principles apply to tobacco production. Price and demand are as inevitable as gravity. Be prepared to pay for your refined tastes. The economics of scale will determine the averages!
 
So what is quality?
But you see... that is not how tobacco is graded at all. Nor wines for that matter. But, that's a whole other basket of eggs. I mean, there is no one batch that tastes good, and then they set aside stuff that doesn't taste good to send to Carter Hall. I will defer to Rajangan on exactly how it is graded, but for the most part bad tasting tobacco is still pretty good.

Take this into consideration, we make up like 1%ish of the total tobacco market. It's small, but I don't know the exact percentage, but to hear Brian Levine talk about it, 1% is a fair guess. And, Pipe tobacco gets the top 1% of all tobaccos coming into manufacturing. Cigarettes pretty much get the rest. So, it's fair to say that all pipe tobacco is going to be "quality" tobaccos. I mean, it's not like Phillip Morris is going to look at a batch of shaggy tobacco leaves and say, "nope, we can't use it. Send that to Sutliff."
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
3,976
11,065
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
Now you are making a different statement, but to answer your question I'd say the demand for low-quality leaf has an impact on producers who will try to satisfy that particular consumers' demand. I do not think there is a conspiracy behind Danish tobacco production to shut down artisan tobacco manufacturers, but no one can turn a blind eye to the knock-off effect. I worry about two things. 1. the overdominance of aromatic tobaccos and 2. non-aromatic smokers conforming with low-quality leaf.
I get what you're trying to say now. You think the popularity of McDonald's will lessen the availability of prime rib. I don't think it works that way and will need more proof to be convinced.
 

jorgesoler

Can't Leave
Dec 3, 2014
401
74
I get what you're trying to say now. You think the popularity of McDonald's will lessen the availability of prime rib. I don't think it works that way and will need more proof to be convinced.

Where in the US can you buy grass-fed beef? Is that a niche market? Why?
 
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