On How the Danish Will Destroy Everything We Hold Dear

[jorgesoler]

Danish tobacco manufacturers hold 80% of the market in Europe. This situation is different in the US, but the truth of the matter is many American pipe smokers still favour Danish-style tobaccos over artisan blends. Not long ago, I read an interview with Per Georg Jensen by the title "No One Should Have to Defend Their Taste." Per complains in this interview about how more and more aromatic smokers are being put on the spot because of their personal preferences, but I think he is only worried about one thing, namely, losing his share of the market to the artisan producers and manufacturers. Because there is no demand for high-quality leaf, more and more tobacco growers will produce a substandard product that is good enough to be cased for public consumption. I personally do not want to put anyone on the spot, but let us not forget that the main reason why McClelland closed their doors not long ago was down to the fact they could no longer find the same quality red Virginia leaf they used to use in most of their blends. Per seems to be saying pipe smokers who abhor of aromatics act like bullies by tagging others as "inexperienced," "newbies," or "rookies," but nothing could be further away from the truth. I personally worry about living in a world where the only thing available is cherry tobacco and vaping. Over the years I have seen many of you complaining about the FDA regulations and how they are going to destroy everything we hold dear, but the Danish threat is just as real. It is not called "hate," but "taste education."

 

[mso489]

I guess I understand the complaint, but not the call to action. So, people should boycott Danish tobacco? Smoke "artisan" instead? What qualifies as artisan?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

but let us not forget that the main reason why McClelland closed their doors not long ago was down to the fact they could no longer find the same quality red Virginia leaf they used to use in most of their blends.

It was not just a "quality" issue, but that they required specifically lower leaf on whatever variety that one particular farmer was supplying him, and now, there are no independent farmers supplying a commercial tobacco product. They are all run as a corporation now.

Do you see aromatic smokers getting harassed on this forum? I mean, besides a few tongue in cheek jokes, I think we are a rather open-minded forum, as far as they go. But, we make tongue and cheek jokes about EVERYTHING.

I'm not exactly sure I understand how MacBarens is threatening the market?

Honestly, I'm not scared of any of this. They can close the corporate tobacco growers for all I care. I will grow it, and be a part of the farmer's market movement of very very small batch front. After smoking my own blends, I just think all corporate tobacco is substandard. You really start to taste how heavily cased this stuff is after smoking straight tobaccos for a while... like how you can't smell your own house till you've been away on vacation for a while.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

From what I understand, aromatic smokers outnumber the rest by a substantial margin. It makes no sense they would be bullied. Perhaps aromatic smokers have their own sense of inadequacy even though that makes little sense. Seems like quite a stretch to see all this as a threat to pipe tobacco.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I've always said that the real reason you don't see more aromatic smokers as active members is that beyond the initial "how do I smoke my pipe," they rarely ever have anything to contribute. Have you seen a thread about an aromatic tobacco?
"Tastes like vanilla"
"Yep"
There's not much more you can add to an aromatic discussion. They just never discuss nuances of flavor, nor do they ever post much about a breadth of different blends. My suspicion is that most aromatic smokers aren't tasting anything, as they smoke for a room note. Maybe not all (because chasingembers will post that he tastes everything), but most never really develop a sensitive palate because of the nature of aromatics.

Sure, sure, we do have some aromatic smokers here, but not many, and most don't hang with us for long. Not because we run them off, but because you just don't ever see them develop a conversation about aromatics that has any depth or breadth to them.

Sure sure, blame a simple joke for running people off... have you seen the way we slam each other over latakia or even perique? Maybe aromatic smokers just have a sense of inadequacy that makes them much more sensitive to any minute joke that may pass before them? Probably from not having the sense of taste non-aro smokers seem to have in tobacco threads?

 

[mso489]

Something like 95% of pipe tobacco sales is flavored/aromatic, so non-aromatic smokers are somewhat sponsored by them. In what used to be the U.S. tobacco belt, that used to rely on tobacco auctions where individual farmers sold their crops, most of the tobacco is now grown under contract (so I understand) so the price and quantity is somewhat set beforehand, and yes, by the large tobacco corporations for the most part. There has been a lot of diversification away from tobacco because of diminishing sales, to cotton and other crops.

 

[kcghost]

Considering aromatic smokers outnumber us 4-1 I'm not too worried about them.
The reason the McNiels gave for shutting down was correct as far as it goes but the deeper truth is they were getting older and didn't wish to sell to anyone. And the fact that their facility was sitting on top of some primo KC real estate.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

You also don't really see a lot of aromatic smokers talk about high end pipes. It's interesting... does an aromatic smoker maybe think that they are just as likely to not taste their tobacco in a $700 pipe as they are not taste it in a bucket pipe?
I've gotten some aromatic ghosted mid range factory pipe on the estate market, but never a high end nor an artisan made. It would be interesting to know whether there are any serious pipe collectors that only smoke aromatics. I'm sure there must be... somewhere.

 

[logs]

On pipe tobacco forums aro smokers and codger enthusiasts are sometimes treated a bit like bumpkins who don't know anything about tobacco. I admit I feel that way about many of them. Smokers who don't hoard and cellar tend to be aro smokers and codgers. They don't bring much to the table when talking about aging, blending, and understanding what goes into tobacco production. On the other hand, I don't see them as a threat to the market. Just the opposite, they sustain the market. My hope is once they get into it enough, they'll learn more about tobacco and start branching out into non-aro blends.

 

[Capt Morgan]

I personally worry about living in a world where the only thing available is cherry tobacco and vaping.

Works for me...

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I've always said that the real reason you don't see more aromatic smokers as active members is that beyond the initial "how do I smoke my pipe," they rarely ever have anything to contribute. Have you seen a thread about an aromatic tobacco?
"Tastes like vanilla"
"Yep"
There's not much more you can add to an aromatic discussion. They just never discuss nuances of flavor, nor do they ever post much about a breadth of different blends. My suspicion is that most aromatic smokers aren't tasting anything, as they smoke for a room note. Maybe not all (because chasingembers will post that he tastes everything), but most never really develop a sensitive palate because of the nature of aromatics.

Sure, sure, we do have some aromatic smokers here, but not many, and most don't hang with us for long. Not because we run them off, but because you just don't ever see them develop a conversation about aromatics that has any depth or breadth to them.

Sure sure, blame a simple joke for running people off... have you seen the way we slam each other over latakia or even perique? Maybe aromatic smokers just have a sense of inadequacy that makes them much more sensitive to any minute joke that may pass before them? Probably from not having the sense of taste non-aro smokers seem to have in tobacco threads?

A study conducted in the 80's showed the average penis size of aromatic smokers was 25% smaller than other pipe smokers. Of course, many more females smoke aromatics so that could have skewed the results.

 

[mingc]

I don't follow how the shaming of Danish aromatic smokers leads to lesser demand for high quality leaf. ?‍

 

[cosmicfolklore]

On pipe tobacco forums aro smokers and codger enthusiasts are sometimes treated a bit like bumpkins who don't know anything about tobacco. I admit I feel that way about many of them. Smokers who don't hoard and cellar tend to be aro smokers and codgers. They don't bring much to the table when talking about aging, blending, and understanding what goes into tobacco production. On the other hand, I don't see them as a threat to the market. Just the opposite, they sustain the market. My hope is once they get into it enough, they'll learn more about tobacco and start branching out into non-aro blends.

A codger smoker is usually a one-blend man/woman/whatever... Whereas an aromatic smoker might branch out from vanilla to peach or cherry. They usually have no idea what the component tobaccos are, and the tobacco could basically be anything. It's really really tough to develop a palate enough to understand what we mean when we debate Virginias verses burleys. I do like to smoke some aros at times... usually something NOT from Lane, Sutliff, or MacBarens, but something with some great base tobaccos that can still be tasted. Also, it's fun occasionally to ride around on a moped... aromatics, mopeds, and screwin' fat girls... they're all great... until your friends find out.

 

[Capt Morgan]

A study conducted in the 80's showed the average penis size of aromatic smokers was 25% smaller than other pipe smokers. Of course, many more females smoke aromatics so that could have skewed the results.

haha, I must be the exception. I tend to think that people that talk about penis size have a bit of penis envy themselves.

 

[jorgesoler]

I don't follow how the shaming of Danish aromatic smokers leads to lesser demand for high quality leaf. ?‍

I said I did not want to put anyone on the spot, and that it is not about the hate but taste education. Per stated "no one should be compelled to justify their tastes," but this is precisely what we should do. I personally do not mind if someone asks me why I like what I like, so why is he protecting aro smokers this way? By stifling the conversation he keeps his share of the market.

 

[greeneyes]

I feel somehow that your statement conflates "aromatic tobacco" with "low quality tobacco." You seem to be drawing the distinction. I know of aromatics, such as those manufactured by (on behalf of) HU, that are very high quality.

Also I think that aromatic tobacco, being the best-selling variety, doesn't seem to be suffering from a chilling effect due to bullying--otherwise it wouldn't be the dominant variety.

I must admit, in the most amicable way possible, that I'm rather confused by your entire statement, and unsure what you're asserting.

As with everything else, the market dictates what is manufactured based on what people are willing to buy. I don't typically discuss my preferences because I often come across as being overly-critical, but I have a fairly high bar in terms of what I perceive as being "high quality" tobacco because I have very little free time to enjoy tobacco and don't particularly enjoy spending it smoking tobacco I feel indifferent about. It's all a matter of opinion, but it seems to me that 90% of the stuff out there, as with everything else, is fairly average.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

so why is he protecting aro smokers this way? By stifling the conversation he keeps his share of the market.

Who really gives a Fig what Per thinks? I mean, I don't hate him. I love many MacB blends, but I'm not about to take the advice of a guy just because he works for a big tobacco company, just like I am not going to fall all over myself with any tobacco or pipe company. It's like when a rock star says something political, I just say, "so what?"

 

[woodsroad]

" the main reason why McClelland closed their doors not long ago was down to the fact they could no longer find the same quality red Virginia leaf"

I have to call BS on this. It may have been one of the stated reasons, but it wasn't the real reason, at all. Mr. McNiel was doing all of the heavy lifting in the McClelland plant. He has a a bad back. He wasn't getting younger. He wanted to enjoy his remaining years not being crippled. End of story.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I feel somehow that your statement conflates "aromatic tobacco" with "low quality tobacco."

Ever since I got here, I have heard forum members go on and on about how aromatic tobaccos all use high quality leaf... and, I've always wondered why? I mean, that is like taking the best cuts of aged prime rib just to turn it into meatloaf. It's pretty stupid to take high quality leaf and just soak the shit out of it in flavored goop. Sure, sure, all tobacco companies are morons dousing "quality" tobacco with shit to make it so no one can taste it... except chasingembers.

 

[woodsroad]

Ever since I got here, I have heard forum members go on and on about how aromatic tobaccos all use high quality leaf... and, I've always wondered why? chasingembers.

I can tell you that the Capt. Monochromatic made in GA uses and exceptional mahogany burley. I've smoked it by itself, and it was the burley used in War Horse. What they are doing now...who knows? All kinds of crazy crap going on with our old brand names these days.