No Smoking VA Medical Facilities

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didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
3,888
1,702
30
WI
This saddens me. They fought for our country. Let them smoke. Like previously stated, there aren't many things these people have left. Let them smoke!

My wife is the leader of my daughters girlscouts troop. This year I helped them deliver baskets of fresh fruit to a vets building, to members that have no family left to visit them. It was truly a mixed emotion day.

Then you go and take away smoking?? I'm sure many veterans got through the tough times by having a pipe or cig.
 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
27,667
3,719
You get into medical questions, it is tricky. An oxygen tank is a hazard, as are many volatile gases and liquids. You don't want to be cremating the patients in their beds. Likewise, susceptibility -- people with their last few square centimeters of functioning lung tissue might not survive a casual smoke or someone else's. However, a smoking area designated and set apart doesn't seem like too much to ask, it's true.
 

cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
19,221
3,082
Outer Space
it is tricky. An oxygen tank is a hazard, as are many volatile gases and liquids.
This one always perplexes me. I have two medical grade oxy-cons that I use in metalsmithing, and tanks of oxygen. But, for the life of me I wonder what the big deal is. I can hold a lighter in front of the hose and never get it to burn in any way, hold my pipe or a cigar, nothing. It is used to increase the heat of other gases, like propane or acetylene, but by itself... doesn't burn or explode or anything. I'm not sure why all the warnings are felt to be so dire. Even the warning labels on them are much more prevalent than the propane and acetylene, which are much more dangerous. If the whole room was on fire, then yes, oxygen under pressure would be dangerous. But, for someone smoking or a fireplace, or even a campfire, it would do nothing at all.
 

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tbradsim1

Preferred Member
Jan 14, 2012
7,647
727
My Daughter is a big Guru in the VA, I say F#K em 50 yrs after the fact I get a letter from the Government saying the medals I could receive for the mission that wasn’t a mission in S Asia, I burned the letter and drank a lot of Whiskey. I was fortunate to have had a very lucrative job with Exxon, daughter told me Dad the VA can get your meds free. Told my daughter F#K EM!
 

Richmond B. Funkenhouser

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2019
87
166
29
Al/Ga
I smoking area could solve those problems.. a doctor can advise those people who might not be healthy enough for smoking activity, but he shouldn't be able to force them not to smoke. There are a lot of laws and polices forcing people to take care of themselves these days, and that is exactly what this is. Theres also a lot of talk about our government being responsible for our healthcare, and thats the reason. Here in Alabama they just passed laws requiring grown people to wear seatbelts in the back seat. I dont know weather or not these types of laws and polices are legal but I do know they seem heavy. There is a lake I fish at here that has signs saying " young lungs at play, no smoking ". How will it affect anyone's lungs if I am on the other side of the lake fishing by myself?
 

Bowie

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2019
397
1,325
Minnesota
This one always perplexes me. I have two medical grade oxy-cons that I use in metalsmithing, and tanks of oxygen. But, for the life of me I wonder what the big deal is. I can hold a lighter in front of the hose and never get it to burn in any way, hold my pipe or a cigar, nothing. It is used to increase the heat of other gases, like propane or acetylene, but by itself... doesn't burn or explode or anything. I'm not sure why all the warnings are felt to be so dire. Even the warning labels on them are much more prevalent than the propane and acetylene, which are much more dangerous. If the whole room was on fire, then yes, oxygen under pressure would be dangerous. But, for someone smoking or a fireplace, or even a campfire, it would do nothing at all.
I recently spoke with a home medical goods supplier and asked her a similar question. She said the real danger is a leaking tank in a small room or closet, causing the air to be over-saturated with O2 and more prone to igniting. They discourage patients from storing tanks in small closets or rooms near a pilot light for this reason. But she said otherwise the tanks themselves are not volatile in normal room conditions.
 

jaytex969

Preferred Member
Jun 6, 2017
5,165
4,384
Here
The risk of explosion depends on a certain percentage of a given gas within the atmosphere. If the concentration is above or below that percentage, it will not easily ignite. The risk is that it's hard to gauge the percentages on the fly.
15877

@ashdigger could probably give a more eloquent answer.

Personally, I have never wanted to hang around the VA facility any longer than necessary. They need not worry about me lounging on campus with a pipe!



15876
 
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cosmicfolklore

Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
19,221
3,082
Outer Space
Yeh, I don't think just oxygen in the air is any risk. But, if my propane leaked along with the oxygen, then there would be problems. For a hundred years concentrated oxygen has been setting next to metalsmiths of all metal genres while they worked with massive amounts of heat and flame.

Sort of like mineral spirits. It smells like it should burn, and there are warnings all over it, but in college, people would toss their cigarettes into it to extinguish them in the painting studios. We would even burn old rags soaked in it to get rid of them (thinking that rags soaked in mineral spirits should burn easily), and sometimes they would extinguish the fire. I'm not saying it doesn't burn. I don't want the guilt of leading someone to try something I've seen to end up burning themself, but...
 
Reactions: Bowie

tuold

Preferred Member
Oct 15, 2013
2,124
60
Beaverton,Oregon
The addictive properties of nicotine can be a problem in a professional medical setting. I knew an anesthesiologist who frequently stepped out of a case for a smoke break. It was commonplace to see him out on the sidewalk still in scrubs puffing away. Patients were caught sneaking cigarettes into rooms and lighting up with oxygen present or in bathrooms setting off smoke alarms and causing disruption. These people are not smoking for pleasure.

It would be great if those who are prone to nicotine addiction would recognize the problem and take steps to mitigate it with patches, lozenges or gum so bans wouldn't be necessary, but that doesn't seem to work. As with alcohol, some people just should not partake if they have that addiction gene.
 

anotherbob

Preferred Member
The blanket ban on smoking sometimes creates worse outcomes.

There are psychiatric facilities that make everyone safer if afflicted people check in for a while. However, many sufferers are smokers, and avoid stays because of the no-smoking rules.

Clearly this is a case of having a poorer societal outcome because no-smoking rules are inappropriately applied as a context-free good for all people in all cases.
and people who work in those facilities are bitching about their patients not smoking too, which ironically is where part of the drive to study the benefits of nicotine and tobacco got any real push. You know having lots of doctors nurses orderlies complaining that their patients are less functional helps with funding and stuff.
 

ashdigger

Preferred Member
Jul 30, 2016
5,296
126
What an absolute load of horseshit. It's not about combustion. It's the bullshit nanny-state in full effect deceiving weak minded and gullible people.

Oxygen is an oxidizer, but it takes a very unique set of circumstances to combust.

The decline in smoking means a decline in taxation that makes it open to discriminate against its users.
 

brian64

Preferred Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,818
1,546
Clearly this is a case of having a poorer societal outcome because no-smoking rules are inappropriately applied as a context-free good for all people in all cases.
"context-free" ... great phrase ... there is so much context-free thinking on practically everything that it is no wonder so many problems are never properly understood or solved.
 

brian64

Preferred Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,818
1,546
It would be great if those who are prone to nicotine addiction would recognize the problem and take steps to mitigate it with patches, lozenges or gum so bans wouldn't be necessary
I question the assumption that nicotine is really the sole cause of cigarette addiction. But that question aside, the above statement implies that a legal "ban" is both necessary and effective as a means of dealing with addiction issues.

You would think by now we would have realized the folly of addressing addictions in that manner.
 

tuold

Preferred Member
Oct 15, 2013
2,124
60
Beaverton,Oregon
I question the assumption that nicotine is really the sole cause of cigarette addiction. But that question aside, the above statement implies that a legal "ban" is both necessary and effective as a means of dealing with addiction issues.

You would think by now we would have realized the folly of addressing addictions in that manner.
I think from a risk management viewpoint you just cannot have people smoke cigarettes in some settings. There's just too much at stake. Smoking is something that is supposed to be a relaxing and pleasurable experience. If it becomes something that is necessary to do at the expense of more important actions it becomes a problem. I've seen too many instances of people inappropriately prioritizing their need to smoke. It's too bad that some ruin things for everyone else, but I think that is a hallmark of addiction, doing things you wouldn't ordinarily do.
 

Richmond B. Funkenhouser

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2019
87
166
29
Al/Ga
I think from a risk management viewpoint you just cannot have people smoke cigarettes in some settings. There's just too much at stake. Smoking is something that is supposed to be a relaxing and pleasurable experience. If it becomes something that is necessary to do at the expense of more important actions it becomes a problem. I've seen too many instances of people inappropriately prioritizing their need to smoke. It's too bad that some ruin things for everyone else, but I think that is a hallmark of addiction, doing things you wouldn't ordinarily do.
I politely ask that you elaborate on the risk management concerns of a smoking area. People are typically fired from their jobs when they are too preoccupied doing other things.. Smoking should be included. Why should things be ruined because some guy took too many smoke breaks? In my opinion, its not wise to fix every problem with a new rule. If we did that eventually we would have too many rules to follow.
 
Reactions: brian64

warren

Preferred Member
Sep 13, 2013
7,660
723
Why in the world would a medical facility permit, indeed encourage, unhealthy behavior? Especially in this day and age when social pressure allows them to preclude it without fear of substantial "blowback." The only complaints would seem to come from smokers, a negligible percentage of users and employees.
 

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