@warren Perhaps it has something to do with the medical professions change-over from having patients to having clients?
No Smoking VA Medical Facilities
- Thread starter mso489
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Sure.
I'm sure that hospitals get extra federal funding and lower insurance costs by having no smoking policies. That's why there are no longer smoking areas in hospitals. It's all about the bottom line.
I'll admit that I really don't have much at stake in this issue. I've never smoked cigarettes or had the desire to light up as a hospital employee or as a patient for that matter and I've always had a sense of pity for those who seemed to be compelled to do so.
I agree with you about things being ruined by just a few and making intrusive rules at the drop of the hat. It's against my Libertarian nature as well.
Warren makes a good point above. Have smoking rooms in a hospital is like opening a bar at the Betty Ford Clinic.
First of all, you are absolutely right about smoking rooms. Those may have been required when smoking was more common, but now smokers do not make up the majority of anyone's customer base.. not even bars. Warren has a great point about hospitals not condoning smoking. His comments are always very well written and he makes an undeniable point. Where is the line on that though? If you are 50 yards from the nearest person, for example you are in the far corner of the parking lot politely having a smoke.. If you make rules that also ban that, that's just too much. There are no medical or occupational concerns with smoking in the far corner of a parking lot. No smoking near the door.. no smoking within so many feet of walk ways.. no smoking inside ( obviously ). I doubt anyone has problems with these kind of rules.
As far as the subsidies go for the va facilities.. I have not been able to find how they are compensated for these kinds of polices. They may well be.. I sure hope not. We live in a time where so many risky behaviors are promoted by the federal government, with tolerance for any kind of freakish things being rubbed in our faces. Yet you are not allowed to smoke in the far corner of the parking lot. Maybe if you wore a dress and a turban then smoked on public property, you would be called the most inspiring symbol of diversity.
My point is.. we should all be against unnecessary rules/laws. We should find ways to live with our fellow man as opposed to finding justification for rules that impede his liberty.. simply because we don't have a need to smoke.
As far as the subsidies go for the va facilities.. I have not been able to find how they are compensated for these kinds of polices. They may well be.. I sure hope not. We live in a time where so many risky behaviors are promoted by the federal government, with tolerance for any kind of freakish things being rubbed in our faces. Yet you are not allowed to smoke in the far corner of the parking lot. Maybe if you wore a dress and a turban then smoked on public property, you would be called the most inspiring symbol of diversity.
My point is.. we should all be against unnecessary rules/laws. We should find ways to live with our fellow man as opposed to finding justification for rules that impede his liberty.. simply because we don't have a need to smoke.
I simply cannot think of any reason why any business not tobacco related should accommodate smokers in any manner. We simply are not a demographic sufficiently large enough to merit consideration.
Every law curtails some individual's right to do something. Who should have the power to determine "unnecessary" or "necessary" rules/laws/regulations? I do not want that power but, I and every voter in the US is entrusted with that power. We tend not to use it particularly wisely though. Most voters seem to be "single issue" and that, my friends, will jump up and bite us in the ass sooner than later. I won't see it but, many of the younger members will.
Every law curtails some individual's right to do something. Who should have the power to determine "unnecessary" or "necessary" rules/laws/regulations? I do not want that power but, I and every voter in the US is entrusted with that power. We tend not to use it particularly wisely though. Most voters seem to be "single issue" and that, my friends, will jump up and bite us in the ass sooner than later. I won't see it but, many of the younger members will.
Here in Oz public hospitals went smoke free quite a while ago. Patients get fined $500 for smoking on hospital grounds.
Even the psyche unit, that has a lovely secured large garden area that was designed so patients could at least enjoy a smoke, has banned smoking. It's especially cruel since so many with mental illness smoke.
Now when one drives past a public hospital it's a common sight to see patients standing out on the street, regardless of the weather, many with IV poles &/or in wheelchairs, chain smoking a few ciggies.
Last year I spent a week in the local Catholic health system run hospital. There's no-smoking signs here & there but they turn a blind eye. As I suffer from chronic nerve pain I told my doctors if I'm unable to sneak out for my nightly 'special' cigarette, I'd be keeping everyone awake at night. He just smiled & said that as long as I was discrete no-one would give me trouble. Security would smile & give me a wink when they smelled the sweet smoke of ganja.
Although it's a much smaller hospital, I now refuse to be admitted to the much larger public hospital. They don't mind shuttling me to the public hospital for the day when I need an MRI or other test that they're unable to do.
The difference between the two mentalities is huge. One treats patients like human beings, while the public one that's run by bureaucrats we're just a number.
Being able to have a puff on my pipe under the shade of a tree makes the hospital stay almost bearable.
The community college I went to (Class of '17) went smoke free three or four years ago, but stated something to the effect of "The inside of your vehicle is NOT college property. If you want to smoke inside your car, or even set up a lawn chair in the bed of your pickup truck to have a smoke, we're not going to bother you." Don't know if that's still the extent of their policy. Also don't know if that bit about vehicles is (or was?) something in Maine State Law.
The medical community has exerted efforts to put the staff into good humane relationships with its patients, despite contrary currents of corporate attitudes and regimental rules. I commend every effort to treat people as sentient and feeling beings, and resist efforts to do otherwise. My wife had two different experiences at rehab facilities after hip surgeries and the difference was vast. The less good place has some wonderful staff, but an undercurrent of revenue based culture, the infrequent run-by doctor's visits and such.
Because medical care should ideally be driven mainly by the needs of the patient rather than mainly by profit motive, including reasonable accommodation of the patients' personal desires. For example, it may be more profitable for a corporation to jack up the cost of a certain widely used medication (a la the Martin Shkreli "Pharma Bro" fiasco) but it would be unethical to jack up the price so far beyond what consumers can afford when the profit margins would still be high at a reasonable retail price. Profit motive of course comes in to play, but should not be the be-all end-all in matters so central to the public good.
Obviously it's healthier not to smoke, but these hospitals are not banning unhealthy activities generally. As someone else mentioned, patients are still free to chug gallons of high fructose corn syrup soft drinks. Singling out smoking for disproportional levels of attention, among all of the unhealthy habits that could be addressed, is a product of emotional thinking rather than logical thinking.
Yes! This is unbelievable.. so I cant have a dip in walking across the parking lot? Can I chew gum? Furthermore can I chew nicotine gum?
That decision was made well above my pay grade. Just passing along the information. It's has also been posted that if you arrive to work smelling like smoke you will be told to leave then you will be credited with an unpaid absence. Third strike and you will be gone.
My goodness gracious there are a lot of naive members here, easily shocked. So called "open warfare" on smoking/smokers/tobacco use was declared decades ago.
High fructose corn syrup and tobacco use are analogous how? I do, however, understand the need to confuse/redirect a discussion when a reasonable argument isn't available.
High fructose corn syrup and tobacco use are analogous how? I do, however, understand the need to confuse/redirect a discussion when a reasonable argument isn't available.
It's a little like growing up and later aging, that the tradeoffs in a culture roll along, giving up some good things, introducing some bad things, giving up some bad things and introducing some good. The survival techniques of balance and comity are in particular disrepute right now, seen as milk toast mollycoddling, but I think we may get back to those if we're lucky. Disagreement can be wonderfully constructive or not, depending on how much insight and self-discipline is in play. Right now, very little, sometimes none.
Yea.. I think the point is, how is your doctor responsible for your decisions? Some studies will show sugar is as bad as smoking, some will show they're not. Bottom line.. Why dont you just ban smoking on places where it would matter? Near doors.. obviously inside.. on walkways.. why is it your hospitals job to correct your behavior?, and why would anyone want that. Advice on what's healthy and forcing people to change their behavior are two different things. If you want someone to tell you what to do and how to do it, why not try prison?, or find a hen pecking wife? Leave me and the hospitals my tax dollars support out of it. How much liberty is a person willing to throw away just for the sake of being a contrarian?
I smoke. I enjoy smoking. In fifty plus years I've never felt the need to subject nonsmokers to my wee vice.
It's not about the smoker, people! It's about all of the non-smokers and how we inconvience them. No one cares about the smoker, we simply do not merit any consideration when it comes to smoking around others, in public. Get over it! We lost the battles and ... obviously the war. And this "freedom" and "liberty" stuff simply doesn't apply when the smoker is adversely effecting others. Even when we smokers submit that such inconvience is soooo minor we should be given a "free ride" with respect to the "rights" and "freedoms" of others.
Allow yourself some liberty... not from the constitution or government, its ok to smoke.. its legal. I speak for the trees when I say that we don't want non smokers to suffer our smoke. We just cherish the right to smoke away from other people, in public. realize that Warren deserves the right enjoy a smoke 50 yards from other people. I may daydream about how nice it was to smoke at the waffle house.. but I know that shit got out of hand at one time. We used to smoke in planes, that was waay to much. I'd be pissed if my wife and son had to ride in a plane cabin full of smoke. To ban smoking in a public place EVERYWHERE, even 50 yards across the parking lot, or to ban smokeless tobacco outside is too much. Come on friend you gotta admit it.
You're speaking about privately owned property, hospitals, universities and such. I believe they should have as much control over the use of their property as I desire to have for mine. Public property and property open to the public will be restricted as the owners, you, I and other tax payers, so desire.
I don't have to admit any such thing. You may be the self-proclaimed arbiter on the subject, I do not aspire to such.
The voters have spoken. Your alternative is now the court system. We, you and I, lost in in the "court of public opinion." But, you can moan and groan, protest even but, I don't see public opinion turning to support our position. We made a choice. I for one can enjoy my smokes while ignoring the slings and arrows of society. In fact, I enjoy the rebelliousness of being a smoker. But, if constantly complaining about the unfairness of life makes you feel better ... more power to you ,,, I guess.
I don't have to admit any such thing. You may be the self-proclaimed arbiter on the subject, I do not aspire to such.
The voters have spoken. Your alternative is now the court system. We, you and I, lost in in the "court of public opinion." But, you can moan and groan, protest even but, I don't see public opinion turning to support our position. We made a choice. I for one can enjoy my smokes while ignoring the slings and arrows of society. In fact, I enjoy the rebelliousness of being a smoker. But, if constantly complaining about the unfairness of life makes you feel better ... more power to you ,,, I guess.
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