My Prediction Of Our Future.

[fireground_piper]

This is true; however, where the legal system is concerned, there is quite a lot of grey area. Even set-in-stone laws can be no match for a crafty legal team, and when it comes to the persecution of tobacco, any given state will have a veritable squad of them at hand. State of Washington = Exhibit A.

Also, I should have expounded a little bit. When I mentioned the word "cost," I didn't just mean financial. I also meant the cost in energy and time. It's no secret that lawyers have an affinity for dragging out the process, and even in the rare instance of a victory (for the "good guys"), recovering legal costs is about as easy as keeping a bowl of Molto Dolce lit during a Category 5 hurricane.

Lastly, I will say that there's no such thing as an "easy" case. For obvious red, spiky, microscopic reasons, many courts are overwhelmed with thousands of pending legal cases right now which are just getting postponed indefinitely, even quite serious ones. I was just reading earlier this week of a woman whose son was wrongfully arrested, and died in police custody. Her lawsuit is nearing the two year mark, with no resolution in sight due to the postponements. Richard Pryor once said, "You go to the courthouse looking for justice, and that's what you'll find: just us!"

Merely my two cents.

If there's 1 thing in life that's about as guaranteed as the sun rising, It's the NJ Department of Labor and/or OSHA awarding victory to an employee over an employer. I can't speak for all states, as they are all different, but NJ is notoriously pro-employee rights. I've been involved in a number of labor issues over the years as an employee and have that knowledge first hand. It doesn't matter if you have terms clearly presented and signed in a contract, if they even get a whiff of something being against their rules they will come in like a hurricane. If I saw a question asking if I used tobacco on an application, I could just shoot that on over to the DoL and let them do their thing.

I was once awarded several hundred dollars for a case I didn't start, and didn't want to be a part of, when I was a contractor. I put in writing, signed, that I understood my terms of employment and that I sided with my employer in his defense against the DoL. Surprise check in the mail a few months later. $$$

Government departments can't stay in business if they can't collect fines. They can't collect fines if they don't enforce their labor laws and side with companies. NJ will never turn down a fine or tax if they think they can get it. That's also why I never expect to see tobacco disappear in this state so long as they can levy taxes on it. They are already gearing up on their payday for the legalization of marijuana and the taxes they can collect.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

I think the problem is the RYO market tbh. Since its considered "Pipe Tobacco" when they sell 16 ounce bags of menthol flavored crapola, we get lumped in with them when it comes to legislation. As if anyone out there is smoking menthol tobacco out of a 50s Dunhill...

I'm sure this doesn't help.

 

[fightnhampster]

A winnable fight, for sure, but at what cost?

+1

 

[fightnhampster]

I’m just thinking about how our families/friends are going to feel & deal with the horde of tobacco left over when we shuffle off. Two things...simple minded folk will simply S-can our cherished cellars or sell it off for pennies on the dollar. ?‍ ️

This. I Think there will be many people who will throw away grandpas tins of McClelland, not realizing how much they are worth. It would probably be good to leave a note in the cellar letting them know how much it is really worth.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Buy all the tobacco you can. Borrow money to buy it. Sell blood. Go broke so you don’t compete with me for pipes.

 

[saltedplug]

If there's 1 thing in life that's about as guaranteed as the sun rising, It's the NJ Department of Labor and/or OSHA awarding victory to an employee over an employer. I can't speak for all states, as they are all different, but NJ is notoriously pro-employee rights. I've been involved in a number of labor issues over the years as an employee and have that knowledge first hand. It doesn't matter if you have terms clearly presented and signed in a contract, if they even get a whiff of something being against their rules they will come in like a hurricane. If I saw a question asking if I used tobacco on an application, I could just shoot that on over to the DoL and let them do their thing.

I was once awarded several hundred dollars for a case I didn't start, and didn't want to be a part of, when I was a contractor. I put in writing, signed, that I understood my terms of employment and that I sided with my employer in his defense against the DoL. Surprise check in the mail a few months later. $$$

Government departments can't stay in business if they can't collect fines. They can't collect fines if they don't enforce their labor laws and side with companies. NJ will never turn down a fine or tax if they think they can get it. That's also why I never expect to see tobacco disappear in this state so long as they can levy taxes on it. They are already gearing up on their payday for the legalization of marijuana and the taxes they can collect.

You write about matters about which I am totally ignorant but NJ pursuing cases where they can collect certainly
sounds right. Thank you.

 

[saltedplug]

Buy all the tobacco you can. Borrow money to buy it. Sell blood. Go broke so you don’t compete with me for pipes.

That's the spirit. . .sell blood!, and bring it back to buying more pipes. I love it!

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

This. I Think there will be many people who will throw away grandpas tins of McClelland, not realizing how much they are worth. It would probably be good to leave a note in the cellar letting them know how much it is really worth.

I’m not ready yet, but your thought is a good one to plan with a trusted family member or friend in what to do. Hopefully, we’ll have a resource like @pipestud to handle the inventory.?️

 

[RainKing]

Honestly do not think they will ban sales outright. I do think they will begin to tax the hell out of it at some point.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

It just seems like if tobacco is such a danger to public health they'd apply the regulations across the board.

But its a legal product.. so they should fuck off across the board.

 

[jaytex1969]

Our counsel has been retained.

 

[burleybreath]

Cigars have a special place in the culture with high rolling power-broker men, so I don't doubt they have an inside track. Pipes, on the other hand, tend to get picked on. LBJ won one of this first elections making fun of a mythic cowboy figure who smoked a pipe -- he'd borrow a pipe from the crowd and impersonate his opponent puffing in meandering thought. So pipes have a disadvantage, being favored by professors and dreamers. But I like the idea that the pipe tobacco fuss might simply get lost in the dust and smoke of bigger issues. Saved by the smoke, perhaps. I've watched the cigar lounge guys puffing and pontificating, bragging on themselves. Oh yeah.

If I may interject:

The "mythic cowboy figure" was Coke Stevenson, governor of Texas 1941 to 1947 or so, a much better man than LBJ. Read Robert Caro's Means of Ascent. I'm surprised he's not more well known on these pipe forums, since he's most often pictured with his pipe, and once addressed a legislative body by first asking if anyone had any pipe tobacco. He was out. A different era, and a better one for devotees of the weed.

 

[telescopes]

I've started cellering some tobacco because I do understand that like ammunition, tobacco will become scarce. That said, I have enough bullets to take me to 72 years of age. I am cellering tobacco in the same vein. I have some interesting tins, but most of my tobacco consist of 4 blends, two of which I have smoked for 4 decades and am content to smoke for a few more. The tins are for spicing things up. Why 72. Well, as I've gotten older, I've slowed down and to be honest, I usually only smoke a bowl a week, if that, although I go through stages where it can be significantly more. I have many hobbies; motorcycle touring, hunting, fishing, traveling, and I like to keep my curiosity open for the next thing around the corner. Smoking is only one attribute of my life. But yes, I am storing up for that day when the oil will run dry.

 

[BROBS]

If I may interject:

The "mythic cowboy figure" was Coke Stevenson, governor of Texas 1941 to 1947 or so, a much better man than LBJ. Read Robert Caro's Means of Ascent. I'm surprised he's not more well known on these pipe forums, since he's most often pictured with his pipe, and once addressed a legislative body by first asking if anyone had any pipe tobacco. He was out. A different era, and a better one for devotees of the weed.

View attachment 68161

If I may interject.
sometimes people do or don’t do, say or don’t say, things that provoke us to such forgetfulness.

 

[BROBS]

I've started cellering some tobacco because I do understand that like ammunition, tobacco will become scarce. That said, I have enough bullets to take me to 72 years of age. I am cellering tobacco in the same vein. I have some interesting tins, but most of my tobacco consist of 4 blends, two of which I have smoked for 4 decades and am content to smoke for a few more. The tins are for spicing things up. Why 72. Well, as I've gotten older, I've slowed down and to be honest, I usually only smoke a bowl a week, if that, although I go through stages where it can be significantly more. I have many hobbies; motorcycle touring, hunting, fishing, traveling, and I like to keep my curiosity open for the next thing around the corner. Smoking is only one attribute of my life. But yes, I am storing up for that day when the oil will run dry.

I hope you have some cases and powder for the bullets. ?

 

[telescopes]

I hope you have some cases and powder for the bullets. ?

They run on the energy of love. How did you know I shoot back powder. I actually mix my own charcoal, sulphur, and saltpeter. I have my own blend that has a unique smoke.

 

[fightnhampster]

Honestly do not think they will ban sales outright. I do think they will begin to tax the hell out of it at some point.

They will ban internet sales, making it much, much harder to obtain. Taxes will be raised for sure. Washington from state and Massachusetts are good models for what is likely to go nationwide.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

But its a legal product.. so they should fuck off across the board.

Yes, yes they should.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

That's the spirit. . .sell blood!, and bring it back to buying more pipes. I love it!

You don't sell blood over here, they expect you to just give it to them for free. I do believe they give you a cup of tea and a biscuit though.

 

[burleybreath]

They will ban internet sales, making it much, much harder to obtain. Taxes will be raised for sure. Washington from state and Massachusetts are good models for what is likely to go nationwide.

I'm getting really sick of "they."