Truly a challenge either way. As it is, we make large enough purchases to justify the cost of shipping. It didn’t seem like a huge deal because it seemed to be reliable. Now the reliability has dropped. I placed my one and only order for $800 based on the reliability. Speed wasn’t an issue for me but if the reliability isn’t there, to quote “the Sharks”, I’m out.
My Estervals Order Was Sent By USPS To Customs And Has been Shipped Back To Germany
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I do not understand why anyone would not simply do the direct thing. All this inefficient back-and-forth between shipping services, retailers, banks, security services, inspectors, and on and on is nuts. Just reading about it is exhausting...
So do what I do: tell one of your people to hop on the G5 and go fetch whatever it is you want. The end.
Even that inspection/biological material silliness is easily taken care of with with a few suitcases packed with nice fresh hundreds.
And to guarantee a timely delivery from the G5 to your hand, just promise the driver he can keep the Veyron if he makes the trip in less than an hour. Works every time.
So do what I do: tell one of your people to hop on the G5 and go fetch whatever it is you want. The end.
Even that inspection/biological material silliness is easily taken care of with with a few suitcases packed with nice fresh hundreds.
And to guarantee a timely delivery from the G5 to your hand, just promise the driver he can keep the Veyron if he makes the trip in less than an hour. Works every time.
Been doing some research on this and apparently it’s not a new phenomenon but international shipping just makes it that much more frustrating. Some suggestions were to double check with the PO the correct version of your mailing address, even if you’ve lived there for years, and to always use the zip+4. Doesn’t necessarily eliminate the issue altogether but will potentially eliminate some possible challenges.
Wouldn't it be cheaper and less effort to just
I dunno, maybe I'm just an
Have you tried HACICO they are good the postage is cheaper than Estervals they also use DHL.
Thats true, I was thinking more about Capstan blue.On your version of the site does it offer you bulk 1lb boxes?
What a revolting development. I won’t be ordering from them again.
It seems like Esterval’s could solve a lot of problems by using a single carrier like UPS, but they just may not be very interested in doing business in the US.
No excuse for their “it’s your problem” attitude even if the fault doesn’t lie entirely with them. Here’s to hoping for a satisfactory resolution.
It seems like Esterval’s could solve a lot of problems by using a single carrier like UPS, but they just may not be very interested in doing business in the US.
No excuse for their “it’s your problem” attitude even if the fault doesn’t lie entirely with them. Here’s to hoping for a satisfactory resolution.
Offering an option to buy insurance to ensure delivery is something that some overseas tobacconists offer to their US customers when ordering from them (talking cigars, here). It's an extra charge that the customer can either pay or you can roll the dice and risk this kind of mishap. If Esterval's were to offer this, it seems this could resolve this issue. Since they don't offer this insurance to their customers, I agree that Esterval's should take responsibility for making sure we receive their orders.
I'm fairly sure that almost every retailer in Germany uses DHL for shipping. As far as I know, it's integrated in the post system there like a national carrier in other countries. "USPS, Canada Post, Brasil's Correios, etc."
When I shipped packages from my address in Germany to someone in another country, I went to the Deutsche Post office and it was handled by DHL automatically.
I wasn't given an alternative, nor asked for one. It's just how it is there. I think Deutsche Post is actually DHL.
Maybe I've missed something, but DHL would be the standard and it's the same as any national carrier, not some kind of strange "hybrid". So you're unlikely to get an alternative unless you request FedEX or UPS or something like that and I doubt many stores would even offer it.
When I shipped packages from my address in Germany to someone in another country, I went to the Deutsche Post office and it was handled by DHL automatically.
I wasn't given an alternative, nor asked for one. It's just how it is there. I think Deutsche Post is actually DHL.
Maybe I've missed something, but DHL would be the standard and it's the same as any national carrier, not some kind of strange "hybrid". So you're unlikely to get an alternative unless you request FedEX or UPS or something like that and I doubt many stores would even offer it.
I have several overseas cigar vendors I've used for years that offer delivery guarantee for "free." I'm sure their insurance policy is wrapped into the price of a box of cigars, but it's standard with a few (not all) vendors that ship to the US.
UPS is scarce in Germany. DHL is Deutsche Post. Most places it’s all there is.
I didn't look. I bought several pounds of bulk from Estervals earlier this year.
I'm not a logistics expert, but here's what some rapid googling suggests is going on to me: DHL is indeed a subsidiary of Deutsche Post. It provides relatively cheap e-commerce services and a much, much more expensive courier service. The DHL e-commerce services have contracted with the USPS for many years to provide exclusive delivery of the "last mile" for many and perhaps all zip codes.
One website states:
DHL Ecommerce is an economical way to ship your parcels to their destination. DHL Ecommerce arranges for your parcel to be delivered to the destination country via DHLs logistics network and final mile delivery is done by the local postal service in the destination country.
That's why it's so much cheaper; DHL has estimated that over half of the total delivery cost is for this "last mile", which is the whole reason they outsource it to the USPS (which has already paid for the infrastructure to visit every house six days a week anyway) for their ecommerce products. If you want a clear comparison of how much more you'd spend for true courier services you have only to look at the shipping page on Estervals website: Estervals Pipe House - https://www.tecon-gmbh.de/shipping.php. It's clearly an option, and I would bet both quicker and more secure...if you want to pay for it.
What does all that mean? I think it means that there's essentially no way to avoid the USPS for DHL e-commerce shipments from overseas, and almost no way to avoid DHL e-commerce for purchases from Germany. Unless you're willing to pay 119 euros and up for true courier service (i.e. end-to-end delivery). I suppose you could get competing quotes from Fedex and/or UPS for comparable courier type services, but a) I'm pretty sure they'd cost about the same amount, and b) your vendor might not offer them as an option. Bear in mind retailers (and wholesalers too) typically pick a single delivery service to work with to simplify their internal processes and to maximize their negotiating leverage for better rates.
Do other people think the handoff to a local postal service sucks? Apparently so, and in many countries. This website shows almost 20,000 comments, with the aggregate overwhelmingly negative: DHL eCOMMERCE TRACKING | Parcel Monitor - https://www.parcelmonitor.com/track-dhl-ecommerce/
I think what this adds up to is that your experience will vary depending on the specific parts of the USPS that your particular your package happens to come in contact with. And there's not a damn thing you, or Estervals, can do about it except a) not order from them (or probably anyone else overseas), or b) pay up for courier service. I suppose Estervals could explain all this (assuming I've gotten it right) on their website, and make it crystal clear that people using the lower German Post WorldNet DHL rate do so entirely at their own risk. But given the large cost differential my guess is customers would still order using the much cheaper DHL e-commerce rate, and still be surprised and angry if the package doesn't show up.
If all of the above is right I don't see what Estervals can do. They can't possibly influence either DHL or the USPS to behave differently in any way. In theory they could withdraw the cheaper rate, but I suspect most people would rather take the chance of an unsuccessful delivery (which I would guess is well under 10%) over the certainty of paying triple the shipping cost. Or Estervals could refuse sales that will wind up in the hands of the USPS. Or they could estimate the extra cost of indemnifying customers and raise prices by an amount to recover that loss. This last is a real pain in the ass; the accounting is an extra burden, and there's extra work in ensuring that you're not being screwed by dishonest customers, who, sadly, exist. I think it comes down to what I said before. If this business is important to Estervals they'll figure it out. If it's not, they'll either ignore complaints or stop shipping to the States.
One website states:
DHL Ecommerce is an economical way to ship your parcels to their destination. DHL Ecommerce arranges for your parcel to be delivered to the destination country via DHLs logistics network and final mile delivery is done by the local postal service in the destination country.
That's why it's so much cheaper; DHL has estimated that over half of the total delivery cost is for this "last mile", which is the whole reason they outsource it to the USPS (which has already paid for the infrastructure to visit every house six days a week anyway) for their ecommerce products. If you want a clear comparison of how much more you'd spend for true courier services you have only to look at the shipping page on Estervals website: Estervals Pipe House - https://www.tecon-gmbh.de/shipping.php. It's clearly an option, and I would bet both quicker and more secure...if you want to pay for it.
What does all that mean? I think it means that there's essentially no way to avoid the USPS for DHL e-commerce shipments from overseas, and almost no way to avoid DHL e-commerce for purchases from Germany. Unless you're willing to pay 119 euros and up for true courier service (i.e. end-to-end delivery). I suppose you could get competing quotes from Fedex and/or UPS for comparable courier type services, but a) I'm pretty sure they'd cost about the same amount, and b) your vendor might not offer them as an option. Bear in mind retailers (and wholesalers too) typically pick a single delivery service to work with to simplify their internal processes and to maximize their negotiating leverage for better rates.
Do other people think the handoff to a local postal service sucks? Apparently so, and in many countries. This website shows almost 20,000 comments, with the aggregate overwhelmingly negative: DHL eCOMMERCE TRACKING | Parcel Monitor - https://www.parcelmonitor.com/track-dhl-ecommerce/
I think what this adds up to is that your experience will vary depending on the specific parts of the USPS that your particular your package happens to come in contact with. And there's not a damn thing you, or Estervals, can do about it except a) not order from them (or probably anyone else overseas), or b) pay up for courier service. I suppose Estervals could explain all this (assuming I've gotten it right) on their website, and make it crystal clear that people using the lower German Post WorldNet DHL rate do so entirely at their own risk. But given the large cost differential my guess is customers would still order using the much cheaper DHL e-commerce rate, and still be surprised and angry if the package doesn't show up.
If all of the above is right I don't see what Estervals can do. They can't possibly influence either DHL or the USPS to behave differently in any way. In theory they could withdraw the cheaper rate, but I suspect most people would rather take the chance of an unsuccessful delivery (which I would guess is well under 10%) over the certainty of paying triple the shipping cost. Or Estervals could refuse sales that will wind up in the hands of the USPS. Or they could estimate the extra cost of indemnifying customers and raise prices by an amount to recover that loss. This last is a real pain in the ass; the accounting is an extra burden, and there's extra work in ensuring that you're not being screwed by dishonest customers, who, sadly, exist. I think it comes down to what I said before. If this business is important to Estervals they'll figure it out. If it's not, they'll either ignore complaints or stop shipping to the States.
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Sigh, I placed an order timed with the Esoterica drop 
. It is, at least for me, a sizable order. I went to USPS and requested every text notification offered for the order. The last tracking information I have is IPZ Frankfurt with USPS tracking info from DHL. Will keep you posted. No prior problems with my local USPS other than I live in a fairly off the beaten path route and most USPS orders of all goods are not on time, yes most ordered goods are late. USPS informed delivery has the order listed as delivery date unknown. I had not heard of or read any snafu's with Estervals prior to this post, I have a dog in the fight.
I can only assume it's waiting on the dock for a container to fill or somewhere on the water.
. It is, at least for me, a sizable order. I went to USPS and requested every text notification offered for the order. The last tracking information I have is IPZ Frankfurt with USPS tracking info from DHL. Will keep you posted. No prior problems with my local USPS other than I live in a fairly off the beaten path route and most USPS orders of all goods are not on time, yes most ordered goods are late. USPS informed delivery has the order listed as delivery date unknown. I had not heard of or read any snafu's with Estervals prior to this post, I have a dog in the fight.I can only assume it's waiting on the dock for a container to fill or somewhere on the water.
This is really a bummer, I love Esterval’s. They would have amazing flash sales, I remember picking up a whole boat load of Salty Dogs for $6 a pouch. Personally I am really thankful that I have put in most, if not all of my bulk orders with them in the past without any issues. There was a day I ordered with them and SPC on the same day and I actually got my order from Esterval’s a day before my SPC order came in. Even though I’m done with ordering the majority of my favorites from them it is shitty to know that it’s not as easy as it once was for all the newer folks that have yet to order from them as they really were a great source to get hard to find blends and other tobaccos that are not sold in the States.
I’m very to sorry hear about your experience @sablebrush52 it looks as though this is going to be off limits for any future purchases from me as well. I’m not willing to gamble on them as when I order from them, it’s going to be a large haul to make up for the shipping costs. There are a few more HU blends I would have liked to stock up on (mainly 5 year Anniversary) but given your experience it just sounds like it’s going to be too much of a headache.
I’m very to sorry hear about your experience @sablebrush52 it looks as though this is going to be off limits for any future purchases from me as well. I’m not willing to gamble on them as when I order from them, it’s going to be a large haul to make up for the shipping costs. There are a few more HU blends I would have liked to stock up on (mainly 5 year Anniversary) but given your experience it just sounds like it’s going to be too much of a headache.
Some of us can but only dream about a 1lb box of Capstan blue. In fact I dreamt about it last night.
I know a number of you have recently had trouble getting your orders from Estervals but I wonder how many times this has happened compared to the number of orders Esterval ships to the U.S. each year.
I'm going to take a bit of a different tack here and say that I still plan to order from Estervals because I want bulk Capstan and I want to try a few HU blends. I'll just take into account that if the shipment disappears or is sent back to Germany, then I might lose my money. I'll probably wait until the end of the Covid thing though because that's caused trouble everywhere.
I still support @sablebrush52 's position in this and think that Estervals should at least work with him in some manner to reach an agreeable resolution. The immediate "not my problem, German customs is going to destroy your package" response was unacceptably bad customer service, even taking into account cultural differences between European countries and the U.S. on such matters.
I also think you all who say sable's credit card company won't side with him are mistaken and that sable's going to get all his money back. Presumably, when the package was sent back to Germany, that's a "return to sender" kind of thing. Would seem that Estervals would be able to retake possession of the package, though in all fairness my understanding of shipping is about as sophisticated as printing a label and putting the package in the mail.
Well,just a side note,my experience shows,if something goes wrong with the packages containing T products and which are sent from abroad no vendor would want to get involved in any process of investigation which may attract unnecessary interest of their domestic fiscal and other authorities,
and as far as Hacico is concerned ,you would not want to deal with them in these 'challenging times,as of now,it'll take an eternity before your order reaches the U.S soil
and as far as Hacico is concerned ,you would not want to deal with them in these 'challenging times,as of now,it'll take an eternity before your order reaches the U.S soil
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