My Estervals Order Was Sent By USPS To Customs And Has been Shipped Back To Germany

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peregrinus

Lifer
Aug 4, 2019
1,205
3,787
Pacific Northwest
I'll probably wait until the end of the Covid thing though because that's caused trouble everywhere.
^^ Agreed. At this time the USPS is experiencing unprecedented serious organizational, political and financial problems that are unlikely to be resolved or even seriously addressed until after the elections and a subsidence in the pandemic.

I still support @sablebrush52 's position in this and think that Estervals should at least work with him in some manner to reach an agreeable resolution.
^^ Again agreed. This total lack of even a show of empathy or willingness to resolve a customer service issue is a sign of short sighted and unenlightened business management and a self-defeating business strategy for any retailer relying on a leap of faith in their non-domestic customer base.
The owners are going to want to fix this, when and if, it passes up the chain and reaches their attention. Looking at Estervals web site I see they have a substantial investment in their international business and won’t likely want to damage their brand over a few tins of tobacco.

@sablebrush52 , I will add my voice to yours and write an email To Estervals expressing my concern over your situation. Couldn’t hurt.
 

unadoptedlamp

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 19, 2014
742
1,368
Shipping done right:

I ordered a pipe from the Danish Pipe shop (Denmark) last Friday, the 14th.

This morning I got notification that it was ready to be picked up at my local post office in Canada.

Free shipping, by the way.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,773
45,358
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
^^ Agreed. At this time the USPS is experiencing unprecedented serious organizational, political and financial problems that are unlikely to be resolved or even seriously addressed until after the elections and a subsidence in the pandemic.


^^ Again agreed. This total lack of even a show of empathy or willingness to resolve a customer service issue is a sign of short sighted and unenlightened business management and a self-defeating business strategy for any retailer relying on a leap of faith in their non-domestic customer base.
The owners are going to want to fix this, when and if, it passes up the chain and reaches their attention. Looking at Estervals web site I see they have a substantial investment in their international business and won’t likely want to damage their brand over a few tins of tobacco.

@sablebrush52 , I will add my voice to yours and write an email To Estervals expressing my concern over your situation. Couldn’t hurt.
Thank you very much! It would be helpful for Estervals to know that their attitude is noted. Certainly couldn't hurt.
 

americaman

Part of the Furniture Now
May 1, 2019
943
3,101
Los Angeles, CA
This is quite the thread. Please understand, I love German products, whether that be Joura pipes, Wusthof knives, or German Sig Sauers. They just make awesome stuff. I also love Switzerland, and it is my favorite country outside of the USA. But I will say, this attitude seems in line with the German mentality. Please allow me to share a couple of entertaining personal stories to illustrate this, if anyone cares to listen.

I spent a month in the German areas of Switzerland when I was nine years old (my family used to go there about once a year, and I was brought along on one of the trips). It was a wonderful, magical trip, and I have been in love with Switzerland ever since. There were some hilarious, and unsavory moments on that trip as well.

During that trip we once went into a store to buy my little brother a Playmobil set. We were shopping around, and no employees were talking to us, they were just letting us shop around. When we went up to the counter to buy the Playmobil set my brother had chosen out, the girl behind the counter was counting change. She said, “We’re closed.” My Dad was like, “U wot m8? We were just shopping around for a good amount of time and you didn’t say anything to us.” She repeated that they were closed, but eventually let my Dad buy the item after he pressed her on the issue. When we went to leave the entrance was locked and the manager or someone had to open it for us. It was surreal.

One night at a restaurant, my Mom ordered veal or steak. It was cold, so she told the server (my Mom isn’t someone to complain, but it was cold, and she wasn’t used to that). The server became upset and said that it’s the way they do it in Switzerland.

While getting on a train once, my family was separated because the doors slam shut exactly at departure time. You have to understand that Switzerland is famous for its on-time rail system, and they don’t wait for anyone.

But the craziest story on that trip was when we were in a ski resort area and went to a bakery. It had some outside tables that were shared with the restaurants next to it. My Mom got some stuff from the bakery and then brought it back to our table, where she then took some food out for my youngest brother, who had just turned one year old. The owner’s son, who was a stereotypical giant, bulky Swiss-German Schwingen wrestler type, came out and started yelling at us: “NO PICNIC! NOOOOO PICNIC!” My parents realized he was talking about the outside food they took out for my brother. Even though the other restaurants sold food, and the bakery didn’t even sell food, he was still upset and kept going off. He then PUSHED my Mom. So, we proceeded to go to the police station and they were really nice and told us that he has a history of harassing tourists (which was funny because it was a tourist area).

We had a similar experience at another public outside area, in another town. My Dad sat at one of the communal tables to eat some ice cream he had bought from one of the stores, and an employee from one of the restaurants came out and basically said that the table he was sitting at was too close to their restaurant.

On another trip to Switzerland, years earlier, my aunt or someone was next in line to buy a bratwurst or something from some type of window restaurant (I don’t know what you would call them, but almost like a concession stand at a ball game). The employee took the person’s order in front of her, and then slammed the window shut as my aunt walked towards it and put the “Closed” sign up. My family started busting up laughing.

Anyways, I hope these stories cheered up this thread with some humor. I would encourage anyone to visit Switzerland if they get the chance, and then report back to us with any funny stories.
 

lawdawg

Lifer
Aug 25, 2016
1,792
3,803
Anyways, I hope these stories cheered up this thread with some humor. I would encourage anyone to visit Switzerland if they get the chance, and then report back to us with any funny stories.

Great stories!

I had some similar experiences in Germany. We were at a biergarten in a small town in eastern Germany where not many people speak English. My buddy, in his terrible German, tried to order a kolsch style beer. Turns out he ended up with a “cola beer” instead of kolsch. Apparently a cola beer is half coke and half beer.

I speak some German, so I apologized to our server for the confusion and let her know my buddy meant to order a kolsch. We were happy to pay for the mistake, but she got all defensive and said in German “No, he ordered a cola beer” and walked off immediately :LOL: he was mad, so I drank my beer, then we went elsewhere.

He got his laughs in a couple days later when ordered what I thought was a grilled chicken sandwich and ended up with some kind of toast with some type of fat and sesame seeds smeared all over it.
 

craig61a

Lifer
Apr 29, 2017
5,820
48,296
Minnesota USA
FWIW, here are Estervals terms:


international Returns Marked "Refused" or "Unclaimed": If you refuse to pay your local duty or tax, and the carrier bills TECON GmbH for the unpaid charges, we will subtract this amount and any return shipping fee from your return credit once the order is back. No refunds will be given for items that are seized at your local customs office or abandoned. There will likewise be no refund for damaged products on return orders that are marked "Refused" or "Unclaimed." We reserve the right to charge a 10% restocking fee for any international order that is returned to us because it was refused or unclaimed. The original shipping fee is non-refundable.

Returns from outside the EU can not be refunded.

Please note that return shipping charges apply to these returns. When re-shipping, a calculation of the return fees and for the new shipping is due. We charge a processing fee of 10% of the order value for all returns.
Way I figure it, your always taking a risk ordering stuff from overseas. And complaining about the vendor should do this and the vendor should do that... Well they don’t have to abide by US consumer protection laws.

As far as the post office is concerned, that’s been lackadaisical for years. I actually think things are starting to turn around a little bit, even with two post offices being burnt to the ground in my neighborhood recently.
 
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goldenmole

Can't Leave
Aug 4, 2019
344
3,381
Copenhagen DK
I am normally not defensive about my countrymen, but I feel this is going a bit far. After a long period where Estervals was universally recommended here as a slow but reliable service there are now a number of cases with delivery problems on the US side, most of which seemingly the result of a bizarre level of mismanagement on the USPS side. There seems to be one example of (admittedly) really bad customer service on Estervals side, which needs follow up and attention. Anecdotal evidence from your Experience with bad service in Germany (and now suddenly also Switzerland) really doesn't show that this is primarily a cultural issue. I for one noticed a remarkable improvement in customer service levels and professional friendly service in Germany over the last years. In general I think International tobacco deliveries, often with the expectation to avoid taxation is a complicated and risky undertaking, and most online stores in the EU don't even ship tobacco within Europe anymore.
 

karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,369
9,079
Basel, Switzerland
I come from Greece where Germanic character is universally hated, but I love it. I find their "play by the rules" mentality great. Sure, it is THEIR rules, and their rules alone, but once you get to know and follow them everything runs like clockwork.

Sone customer service can be...interesting, but I see it as "I won't become the customer's slave, the store closes at 5, I don't care if there are 100 hungry customers waiting, and won't stay open longer because it's bad form for the other shops". You got to understand, these are rich countries with excellent safety nets, where the differences between well-off and less so are not that great, so a few more sales won't make or break their life, in Greece they'd bend over backwards (and screw their brother up) for peanuts.

Sure the doors close on the dot, but this means the people waiting at the next station will get in on time too etc etc. I have detected a little bit of schadefreude involved in this rigidity, likely the station chief or train driver is silently chuckling at the "dumb foreigners who can't read the time of departure"

On topic, I agree the treatment sable got was not nice though.
 

goldenmole

Can't Leave
Aug 4, 2019
344
3,381
Copenhagen DK
I come from Greece where Germanic character is universally hated, but I love it. I find their "play by the rules" mentality great. Sure, it is THEIR rules, and their rules alone, but once you get to know and follow them everything runs like clockwork.

Sone customer service can be...interesting, but I see it as "I won't become the customer's slave, the store closes at 5, I don't care if there are 100 hungry customers waiting, and won't stay open longer because it's bad form for the other shops". You got to understand, these are rich countries with excellent safety nets, where the differences between well-off and less so are not that great, so a few more sales won't make or break their life, in Greece they'd bend over backwards (and screw their brother up) for peanuts.

Sure the doors close on the dot, but this means the people waiting at the next station will get in on time too etc etc. I have detected a little bit of schadefreude involved in this rigidity, likely the station chief or train driver is silently chuckling at the "dumb foreigners who can't read the time of departure"

On topic, I agree the treatment sable got was not nice though.

My point was: the behavior (and customer service) of individuals/companies can be criticized without having to dig out dusty national stereotypes. Some people are nice, others not so much. National stereotypes, in particular negative ones (yeah even if you say you "love it", what you describe is a pedantic, rule obsessed national character) are not particularly useful in this context. I work in an international organisation with colleagues from 39 countries, and while it is fun to poke friendly at national characteristics (and I am usually the first one to pull the leg of my German colleagues for their lack of humor), you find nice guys and assholes with all sorts of passports. I have traveled extensively in Greece for example, love the food and culture, and I am not very tempted to explain occasional hiccups or negative experience to some sort of Greek national character.
Anyway: it can be considered in this case that someone had a bad day, misunderstood communication or was otherwise not reacting in a professional and polite manner. Perhaps an apology is forthcoming and the person might be forgiven. From what I was reading about Estervals it seems very much a one-man show, grown out of a successful ebay business (not that this an excuse).
 

goldenmole

Can't Leave
Aug 4, 2019
344
3,381
Copenhagen DK
Oh it’s all in good fun @goldenmole
I don’t think they are that far off though. ?

The French lazily mope about.
The Germans hastily mope about.

?
Well.. if you say so! (Goosestep of to my orderly tobacco shelf.. shouting the occasional "ACHTUNG" " HALT" and "HÄNDE HOCH"). Will smoke some hideous German aromatic in my ugliest Vauen filter pipe in self-punishment!
 

jhe033

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 15, 2020
109
838
Indiana
Not to pile on Estervals but Ive tried ordering from them 3 times with my AmEx and it always fails. I called AmEx and they say it’s fine on their end...I tend to believe them as it’s my travel card (or was before the current situation).

Anyway, I emailed Estervals to ask about it and got a canned ‘it’s not us’ answer. Not any offer of me calling in an order, offering another alternative, etc...

So, I was less than impressed and while I’d like to resolve it, I’ve not been in a rush based on their indifference.
 

BROBS

Lifer
Nov 13, 2019
11,765
40,028
IA
Actually the only thing on my shelf that I have only managed to smoke once is Rattays Exotic Passion. My taste buds are still recovering and the pipe might be ghosted beyond help
That’s one of the worst tobaccos I’ve ever smoked. Goes to show what forum groupthink can do for a blend. ?
 

lawdawg

Lifer
Aug 25, 2016
1,792
3,803
Well.. if you say so! (Goosestep of to my orderly tobacco shelf.. shouting the occasional "ACHTUNG" " HALT" and "HÄNDE HOCH"). Will smoke some hideous German aromatic in my ugliest Vauen filter pipe in self-punishment!

Customer service in Europe is crap. When I walk into the Biergarten wearing my shorts, brightly colored t-shirt, and my basketball shoes, speaking loudly to everyone around me as we Americans tend to do, it’s perfectly reasonable for me to expect the staff to greet me with “guten tag, Herr American” and bring me a large Budweiser immediately, just like in America.

Just kidding of course puffy I do think there is a distinct difference in customer service between the US and Europe generally, and the anecdotes in this thread are pretty accurate reflections of that difference. However, the American “customer is always right” approach has its shortcomings too. Anyone who has ever worked in a service job knows it can be kind of humiliating to have to defer to an obnoxious aggressive customer when you really want to tell them to fuck off... which I’m pretty sure you can do in Europe.
 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,303
4,358
I actually like Exotic Passion but then I like the Kohlhase & Kopp aromatics and they make Rattray's.

The order I made to Esterval's included Rattray's Caribbean Dream and Rattray's Blossom Temptation. Neither of those blends are as strongly flavored or wet as Exotic Passion. I went through 50g of Caribbean Dream in about two weeks. Esterval is the only place I've found it.

My plan is to order from Esterval again but I will use money I would normally spend at the casino (i.e. money I'm going to lose anyway.).
 
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