McClelland 40th In Stock At Smokingpipes

[balkisobrains]

Well, there's the "list" which seems to be holding true in terms of flipping to "Out of Stock" rather than "Backordered" as they go out of stock at P&C. Is it Mike McNiel on a radio show reading a list? No, but P&C usually takes back-orders on stuff.
Ironically, P&C has always kept 40th as "Out of Stock" when they don't have it.

 

[gkr1]

@elvergun"Okay. Can you share a link with us where Mike informs us that he is retiring...or closing down"
I am not sure where are you getting that. Thats not what I said. My remarks were solely on procuring good quality reds. Nothing else. You can watch his youtube videos and do lil more research and you will find out the quality leaf is getting harder to source for him. And he buys a lot unlike blenders that use their name to sell their blends tinned at a third party.
You can spin this as much as you want but there is good reason to be concerned.

 

[woodsroad]

I had a dream last night about all this. But I promised to keep it confidential.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The Magic 8 Ball has nothin’...

 

[renfield]

Sadly, even if Mike McNeil went on a podcast and layed it all out there’d still be rumors flying. The nature of humans and the inter webs.
Now if the info came from Starcat, that’s solid.

 

[brightleaf]

If Mike McNeil returns to the pipesmagazine radio show it would help us evaluate what he says and hear things from his perspective. I wouldn't rely solely on his opinion of how the market is. He cannot be everywhere at once and only has so many contacts. After listening to his radio interview it sounded to me like he had some friends at a cigarette company that did the scouting for him (at no charge). That relationship may have changed and only involved one company. The tobacco market is huge. I haven't seen empty spaces at the convenience stores where cigarettes are sold. There must be millions of stores that sell cigarettes, all of which have many cartons in stock, cigarettes that all contain high quality red Virginia.

 

[renfield]

I agree, I take what Mike says as implicitly true. There’s no reason not to.
It’s just that so many people on the web won’t take a fact as a fact, no matter what, no matter what the topic. It just seems to be how things work on the internet. Ultimately it’s not my monkey, not my circus.
Anyways, McClelland’s splendid 40th Anniversary is back in stock at Smoking Pipes. Virginia lovers rejoice.

 

[brightleaf]

I don't understand what you mean by a fact is a fact. People saying something is only that, what they said. The reason we say things are for many reasons. If Mike wants to get out of the business he may fear upsetting his customers, so could blame it on the leaf quality, or the FDA. I don't assume what anyone says is True. If you believe what someone says is true because of their title, position or what others think of them, then you aren't using your brain, you are letting others do the thinking for you. I would love to hear what Mike has to say but I will only take it as what he says, not as a fact. Concerning his own business he would be the best source. Concerning how the market is, he is only one person with a limited perspective.

 

[sablebrush52]

Concerning how the market is, he is only one person with a limited perspective.

But, this assumes that he doesn't talk with other professionals in the business, nor attend industry trade shows (as separate from pipe shows), and he does both.
We don't really know what his thinking is. We just have a lot of speculation from various sources. All we know is that 5100 in being discontinued, a number of blends are not in stock, 40th Anniversary is in stock, and the rest is an unknown.
When I first took up the pipe. McClelland didn't exist. There were plenty of fine blends available, a tiny fraction of what is available today, and we got along just fine. If you're concerned about having his blends in your cellar, this would be the time to find them. The Tudor Castle that I recently purchased was dated to 2015, so it's not like there isn't stock available, sitting on shelves, for those willing to make the effort.

 

[brightleaf]

I enjoy McClelland tobaccos and just finished a bowl of 40th/Lakeland dark at a ratio of 70/30. I would buy more if I could but have recently spent all my extra money on some rare books out the U.K. that have not been available in years. Everyone's perspective is limited in this huge market. His knowledge and perspective on this subject is much larger than mine. But I won't discount my own understanding because of his claim. From my perspective tobacco varies more with each years crop, and I haven't seen any evidence that practices in the tobacco market recently changed that could justify the claim there is no longer any good reds. I am not suggesting that Mike would make anything up nor am I questioning his honesty. I am only suggesting that what he says is from a human being that has an ego to protect and could be subject to human tendencies to justify his decisions about retiring. It is all speculation because we have only very limited info. Is there any evidence that there is no quality red Virginia available for the tobacco market ever again? I haven't seen it.

 

[sablebrush52]

Everyone's perspective is limited in this huge market. His knowledge and perspective on this subject is much larger than mine.

And there's no way to either quantify, or qualify that. It may be a technically accurate observation but it doesn't illuminate. My knowledge of a field may be only 95%, so it's limited, but not narrow.

...I haven't seen any evidence that practices in the tobacco market recently changed that could justify the claim there is no longer any good reds.

There's a big difference between saying that there aren't any good reads, a statement which I haven't seen made by McNeil, and not finding a red that works for his specific needs. And he would not be either the first, nor the only maker who has taken a blend off the market because he didn't find what he was looking for. And if the blend in question, 5100, is a component for a number of other blends, then there is going to be a ripple effect. And then, I don't really know what your level of knowledge about the industry is, or how broadly you have researched it.

I am not suggesting that Mike would make anything up nor am I questioning his honesty. I am only suggesting that what he says is from a human being that has an ego to protect and could be subject to human tendencies to justify his decisions about retiring.

Which amounts to assumptions about what his thinking is, or his personality traits. Still not factual. And if you are suggesting that he's making excuses to deflect his real intentions, then, yes, you are suggesting that he's lying, evne if couched in softer gentler terms. Your argument contradicts itself.
And after all is said, by you and by me, and by others, all we know is that 5100 is discontinued, other blends are out of stock, and that the 40th Anniversary blend is in stock.

 

[brightleaf]

What he says may be true, I just want more evidence that the reds are and will continue to be unsuitable for 5100 (is it just because he says or did something in the market change?)
I do know that 5100 being off the market will have huge ripple effects since it is used in many blends by B&Ms.
If he believes what he is saying then he is not lying, regardless of what I believe.

 

[jvnshr]

327 tins left.

 

[pipestud]

Other blenders are not buyers nor they procure tobacco. Additionally, blenders that do not tin or actually source leaf naturally will be looking at their bottom line.-gkr1

Generalities like yours are really not fair, gkr1. Actually, yes, many blenders are buyers and procure and source leaf. G.L. Pease is a blender. No, he doesn't physically tin up all of his blends tin by tin (at least, I don't think he does), but he certainly is a buyer, and he certainly personally selects his own tobacco and oversights the process from start to tinning. And if he is smart (which he is), he will certainly be looking at his bottom line as all savvy businessmen do. Another fact that you got wrong was the proper spelling of Mike McNiel's last name. (-:

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Who buys leaf and who doesn't may be a function of whether or not one is licensed as a primary tobacco processor. I had this explained to me many years ago by someone in the industry and it is actually fairly complicated and regulated as to who can buy tobacco in what form and what they can do with it. With the subsequent advent of the Master Settlement Agreement, I imagine the red tape - not to be confused with red Virginia- is even more complex.
I have no specific knowledge anymore as to who is licensed as what, but it used to be the case that some pipe tobacco purveyors could buy raw leaf from a farmer, say, and some couldn't. It is entirely possible that a source available to McClelland might not be available to C&D, and that source has dried up, with no visible impact on C & D. This is a hypothetical, based on an imperfect and perhaps out of date understanding of the way the industry was regulated.

 

[brightleaf]

That's also my understanding oldgeezersmoker. Small companies most likely do not have contracts with farmers but could in theory. Most people who would be able to bid on tobacco would have to have deep pockets or represent a company that does. Knowing someone that can get you the tobacco you want is essential to a gourmet tobacco company that is exclusive for pipe smokers.

 

[gkr1]

Generalities like yours are really not fair, gkr1. Actually, yes, many blenders are buyers and procure and source leaf. G.L. Pease is a blender. No, he doesn't physically tin up all of his blends tin by tin (at least, I don't think he does), but he certainly is a buyer, and he certainly personally selects his own tobacco and oversights the process from start to tinning. And if he is smart (which he is), he will certainly be looking at his bottom line as all savvy businessmen do. Another fact that you got wrong was the proper spelling of Mike McNiel's last name. (-:

My understanding from reading many online inter-web sites is that GLP uses C&Ds leaf and perhaps he may procure some. However, comparing C&D leaf and GLP they seem identical to me in taste, feel and look.
Folks should watch this video, specially the last 30 Seconds of the clip. Mike's own words! It may not directly apply but you can get an idea what he goes through sourcing leaf.
Mikes clip

 

[brightleaf]

Here are a couple of pics I thought might help.
The first one is about Tobacco Auctions

From 2013 http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/tobacco-auctions-making-comeback-0

I am not sure if auctions are still happening but the best tobacco would be fought over, as 95% seems to be contracted out.
From http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/why-2015-tobacco-crop-was-near-disaster

Any Virginia that would be ready for blending now would have been from this year. The ability to get good leaf would've taking a lot of clout and cash.

 

[renfield]

Bright leaf: When I said some people just can’t take a fact as a fact I was speaking in general, not in reference to the red Virginia issue. As I said, a trait of human nature.
I won’t say which one but on another forum the baseless speculations stated with metaphysical certainty, completely at odds with what is known, make me shake my head. It’s all just shooting the breeze until people state as fact things which could have an adverse effect on someone’s business. I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about one person in particular on another forum.
Based on what GL Pease has recently posted, there are still quality red Virginia’s available, but not necessarily leaf that meets McClelland’s needs.

 

[renfield]

BTW, this thread is best enjoyed while smoking a bowl of 5100 in a birth year Dunhill.