Longer, Analytical Posts

[hoosierpipeguy]

This forum is so polite and controlled, it often borders on boring. I don't recall much bickering in the engineering thread, just different opinions. Different opinions and even some bickering is most often good. It generally sparks new ideas and may provide a different perspective. That's a good thing IMHO. It's also cyber space. Who cares what an unknown voice hiding behind an icon thinks?

 

[sablebrush52]

"Postmodern thinkers frequently call attention to the contingent or socially-conditioned nature of knowledge claims and value systems, situating them as products of particular political, historical, or cultural discourses and hierarchies. Accordingly, postmodern thought is broadly characterized by tendencies to self-referentiality, epistemological and moral relativism, pluralism, subjectivism, and irreverence."

That reads like pretty much the majority of human history. But I guess in a post modern culture, Wikipedia assumes the mantle of the ultimate reference source...

 

[aldecaker]

Sounds just like something the Patriarchy would say. :rofl:

 

[bnichols23]

>>"Consider yourself fortunate" -- That I do, Jesse, every day, believe me. Focused "artsish" application of "postmodern" notwithstanding, it doesn't apply across every board. At least I've never found it to be so IRL from the perspective of half an average person's lifetime as a supervisor/manager (both in *&* outside of academe). Maybe I'm just too wizened & excessively experienced. :mrgreen: as someone once said of politics (swear I forget who, unfortunately), "the young have the passion, the old the curse of the long view."
>>"Actually I'd take at least a little issue on that. " ... "Individuals deciding for themselves what 'truth' or 'fact' means is the very definition of postmodernism. I didn't make up the definition, I'm just pointing it out" -- In arts, architecture, academic philosophy, etc., as a fuzzy-edged but overarching generality perhaps, but from experience I can say that when in the real-world actual hands-on practice supervision/personnel management, the term's use in the arts simply doesn't translate. Management of warm bodies is person:person interaction; with high emotions, obstreperousness, rebellion, etc., by their very nature automatically included. Not exactly the same as a young Professor Fuzzybeard with a freshly minted humanities Ph.D. in a museum looking intently at a Sargent portraiture trying to find the "true motivation" behind it. In short (too late!) academia & "the outside" are two completely different things.
As the saying goes, "I didn't make up the differentiation, I'm just pointing it out." ::

 

[warren]

Isn't Wikipedia mostly opinions posted as facts, with a few honest to God facts thrown in?
I should have been clearer. The "facts" I'm referring to are the suppositions, conclusions, etc. often found in research papers which are immediately taken to be fact. I offer this as an irrefutable fact; 6+4+3=2. (edit: I nearly mucked that up!)

 

[bnichols23]

>>"hard to believe you aren't aware of what postmodern thought is and how it applies to every area of thinking, not just art. " -- And actually that's the sticking point:
It doesn't. -grin-

 

[jpmcwjr]

Oh, my, this is a thread and a half! I think I understand some of it.....

 

[crashthegrey]

I'm getting too old for this. Get off my lawn, err, turf. Unless you want to sit down and smoke a pipe with me, but please bring some iced tea.

 

[bnichols23]

>>"how it applies to every area of thinking, not just art."
However immediately *before* that in the article is this sentence: "Postmodernism is a broad movement that developed in the mid- to late-20th century across philosophy, the arts, architecture, and criticism..." That's a somewhat limited subset of "every area of thinking." And that said, I'll have to ask y'all to excuse me. My pigs are starting to argue pan-galactic truths again, which means I need to see about their slop. :mrgreen:

 

[bnichols23]

>>"Unless you want to sit down and smoke a pipe with me, but please bring some iced tea. " -- +AFewDozen, crash.

 

[crashthegrey]

My pigs are starting to argue pan-galactic truths again

Fortunately I only have the one currently, and she's getting tired of me arguing pan-galactic truths, so we're going to be alright.

 

[bnichols23]

"only have the one currently, and she's getting tired of me arguing pan-galactic truths" -- Sirrah, YOU are a mess. :rofl:

 

[brian64]

Postmodernism made that break with reason and science, and took Existentialism to the next level. Not only can you decide the meaning of life for yourself, you get to decide what's true and not true to give yourself that meaning.

I'd say it's post-postmodern now. The vast majority don't seem to be deciding anything for themselves...they just accept the version of reality and history spoon fed to them by the MSM.

 

[woodsroad]

My pigs are starting to argue pan-galactic truths again, which means I need to see about their slop.

A little more Gargle Blaster will fix that.

 

[bnichols23]

Thanks, Woods. I knew somebody would close the loop on that one, even though BION it really *wasn't* what I was thinking of when I wrote it.

 

[npod]

My pigs are starting to argue pan-galactic truths again

Now the pigs are flying :rofl: and acting patriarchal :lol:

 

[jpmcwjr]

Still want to know if patriarchs are good, bad or indifferent.
And if PMs were involved, because I didn't see anything terribly amiss in the "engineering thread".

 

[yaddy306]

However immediately *before* that in the article is this sentence: "Postmodernism is a broad movement that developed in the mid- to late-20th century across philosophy, the arts, architecture, and criticism..." That's a somewhat limited subset of "every area of thinking."

Really? a somewhat limited subset?
If philosophy encompasses existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language (from Wikipedia, haha) then it's hardly a limited subset.
Post-modernism and obscurantism are, unfortunately, pretty prevalent in our culture.

 

[seacaptain]

Yeh, doesn't apply to Postmodern art, as it has nothing to do with any of that. But, they've sure made an impression with you.

Of course it applies to art. Artists were the first cultural subset to apply postmodern thinking, particularly deconstructionism. The impressionists (I like impressionist art by the way), then on to the surrealists etc. It came to America at the 1913 Armory Show and went downhill from there.
If you're going to have strong opinions about art and philosophy, you should read up on it instead of being dismissive of others who understand the concepts involved.
Unless you're a postmodernist, then carry on, because your perception is "true" no matter what the facts are.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeh, for a line of thinking that led to an art movement, we are giving it a lot of attention. So...

This...

led to 57 genders?

i'm not crazy about it, but those Australians seem to dig it. I'm more in line with those whacky cubist and surrealists myself. And, I've learned to enjoy a good cubist cigar now and then. Don't care much for the surrealist ones, they can be a dick. ::