Interesting Completed Ebay Auctions - British Pipes

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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,757
49,224
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I enjoy collecting old Ben Wade pipes and I was observing this one below to see how high the auction would go:


I think that, for my tastes anyway, I find it difficult to muster enthusiasm for an old pipe like this if I know it has an "off" replacement stem (for example). I'm sort of a stickler for detail and the stem would be something of an eyesore. I think if I bought something like this it would have to factor in the cost of the eventual repair, so really I'd be paying for a stummel and the case.

I bring this up now because there's an ongoing auction for a similar pipe with a stem that very obviously doesn't match the pipe (i.e. not flush, not threaded) and the auction price is going significantly higher than I would have imagined. I wonder how many of the bidders realize it's not an original stem, and how many know and don't care or are planning to repair the pipe.
A lot of collectors don't know shit from shinola. They know a brand name. They know it's considered a good thing to buy that brand name. And...their knowledge doesn't go much deeper than that. With Barlings I can spot a non Barling factory made replacement stem about 95% of the time. The other 5% were made by George Dibos or RonnieB.

As for the cost of recreating a unique antique stem with sterling fitments, the answer is, bend over, spread your cheeks, and open your wallet wide. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. A couple of years ago I looked into having a couple of dents tapped out on one of my Barling motor domes. I asked RonnieB, at that time widely regarded as the best restorer on planet earth, who he would recommend to do the work, since Ronnie didn't do silver work. His recommendation was someone who did museum quality restoration work of sterling and other historic jewelry.

When I worked in the jewelry business we tapped out dents for our clientele mostly for free. If I'd had access to a jeweler's bench and the correct sets of tools I'd have done it myself. So I wasn't quite expecting the estimate for tapping out two small dents, which ended up being far more than the market value of the pipe. For the time being, the pipe can keep its dents.

So imagine paying for the work involved in creating a threaded sterling mount in the late Victorian style. Or maybe don't imagine it.

Not all collectors are fussy. They don't care if their toys are less than perfect and whole. They love their imperfect toys just as much, or maybe more.

I've seen truly capricious behavior on ebay, prices that are beyond irrational. People get into bidding duels and their balls get in the way of their brains.

This is my long winded way of saying, no, a lot of bidders/collectors don't consider anything more than the glittering bauble in front of them and how important it is to obtain it.
 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
19,005
13,050
Covington, Louisiana
postimg.cc
Some interesting ending this weekend.

GBD 9438 Virgin - but with a disclosed, repaired button. A well known seller, he had to be been happy with this outcome.


1616378150515.png


A Comoy's 256 that only brought $157.50, but it is missing the stem....



1616378234741.png

This one has its own thread, not sure anyone posted the final. The one I saw at the NYC show had an asking price of $2,600 a few years ago, so I guess this one is on the money.


1616378358552.png
 

guylesss

Can't Leave
May 13, 2020
323
1,158
Brooklyn, NY
A lot of collectors don't know shit from shinola. They know a brand name. They know it's considered a good thing to buy that brand name. And...their knowledge doesn't go much deeper than that. With Barlings I can spot a non Barling factory made replacement stem about 95% of the time. The other 5% were made by George Dibos or RonnieB.

As for the cost of recreating a unique antique stem with sterling fitments, the answer is, bend over, spread your cheeks, and open your wallet wide. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. A couple of years ago I looked into having a couple of dents tapped out on one of my Barling motor domes. I asked RonnieB, at that time widely regarded as the best restorer on planet earth, who he would recommend to do the work, since Ronnie didn't do silver work. His recommendation was someone who did museum quality restoration work of sterling and other historic jewelry.

When I worked in the jewelry business we tapped out dents for our clientele mostly for free. If I'd had access to a jeweler's bench and the correct sets of tools I'd have done it myself. So I wasn't quite expecting the estimate for tapping out two small dents, which ended up being far more than the market value of the pipe. For the time being, the pipe can keep its dents.

So imagine paying for the work involved in creating a threaded sterling mount in the late Victorian style. Or maybe don't imagine it.

Not all collectors are fussy. They don't care if their toys are less than perfect and whole. They love their imperfect toys just as much, or maybe more.

I've seen truly capricious behavior on ebay, prices that are beyond irrational. People get into bidding duels and their balls get in the way of their brains.

This is my long winded way of saying, no, a lot of bidders/collectors don't consider anything more than the glittering bauble in front of them and how important it is to obtain it.

. . . What Jesse said. . .

Viz this FrankenDunhill Duke "519" with an after-market bamboo shank/stem, its shell finish polished smooth and possibly recolored--none of this mentioned by the seller and evidently of no particular concern to half a dozen bidders.


FrankenDuke.jpg
 

lightmybriar

Lifer
Mar 11, 2014
1,315
1,842
. . . What Jesse said. . .

Viz this FrankenDunhill Duke "519" with an after-market bamboo shank/stem, its shell finish polished smooth and possibly recolored--none of this mentioned by the seller and evidently of no particular concern to half a dozen bidders.


View attachment 71820
At least it has the iconic Dunhill White Blob on the stem!
 
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Kottan

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 5, 2020
508
1,333
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Where did you find this, ?
Wonderful info.


Hi Orlando,

by chance while searching for a certain charatan shape number I came across the order form again and found another picture to go with it.....

@lewis_pipe Instagram post (carousel) Ran across an old #lanelimited order form for some #charatanpipes today. Wonder if these prices are still valid? They even cover the cost of postage! - Gramho.com - https://gramho.com/media/2506323826533343795

(Click on the right arrow in the picture)
 
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Dec 10, 2013
2,616
3,346
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
. . . What Jesse said. . .

Viz this FrankenDunhill Duke "519" with an after-market bamboo shank/stem, its shell finish polished smooth and possibly recolored--none of this mentioned by the seller and evidently of no particular concern to half a dozen bidders.


View attachment 71820
Looks like shite; pardon my french.
 
Dec 10, 2013
2,616
3,346
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Some interesting ending this weekend.

GBD 9438 Virgin - but with a disclosed, repaired button. A well known seller, he had to be been happy with this outcome.


View attachment 71783


A Comoy's 256 that only brought $157.50, but it is missing the stem....



View attachment 71784

This one has its own thread, not sure anyone posted the final. The one I saw at the NYC show had an asking price of $2,600 a few years ago, so I guess this one is on the money.


View attachment 71787
No matter how hard I try to like it, I cannot think of it as a " well done " bit repair.
 
Dec 10, 2013
2,616
3,346
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Some interesting ending this weekend.

GBD 9438 Virgin - but with a disclosed, repaired button. A well known seller, he had to be been happy with this outcome.


View attachment 71783


A Comoy's 256 that only brought $157.50, but it is missing the stem....



View attachment 71784

This one has its own thread, not sure anyone posted the final. The one I saw at the NYC show had an asking price of $2,600 a few years ago, so I guess this one is on the money.


View attachment 71787
Dunhill LC ; I posted the final :)
Al; where can I find the thread ?
 
Dec 10, 2013
2,616
3,346
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Apart from the excellent make of the pipes, the Dunhill whangees were not always pleasing to the eye.
Bulky bamboo stems and a wrong fix to the bowl, meaning knuckles of the bamboo not flush with the bowl etc. Nevertheless I own three and I appreciate them a lot. So ugly only a father could love ;)
George once posted an excellent thread of how the stems were attached to the bowl ; obviously not glued but
very sound and so very time consuming work .
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,757
49,224
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I picked up this Barling Quaint. The pipe arrived in today's mail and I'm quite pleased with it.
The condition is remarkable. Often years of use and over application of a buffing machine result in the rustication losing much of it's crispness. The rustication is really crisp almost like it was just cut, and the stem is perfect. It it's a replacement, as the seller suspects it is, I can't tell, and frankly, because of a couple of details, I think it's a Barling factory stem. Whether it's the original Barling factory stem I have no idea, and replacement stems are more common with these old pipes than people might think. There's a reason that all of these makers offered their own repair, replacement and restoration services on their pipes.

It's cleaning up well and is currently getting an s/a treatment. I look forward to firing it up in a couple of days.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,757
49,224
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I forgot to mention two interesting things about this quaint. The first is that it appears to have a carvers ID just under the "Barling's Make" logo, a numeral 1. My understanding that this was a carvers ID comes from Mel Feldman of The Smoker Ltd.
Second is that it has a Benjamin stamp on the obverse side, for Benjamin Electric, Ltd. Barling made pipes for Benjamin Electrics to give as gifts. This is the first Benjamin quaint that I've seen. I wish I knew what the period was that Barling made pipes for Benjamin, but I have a feeling, given the carvers ID, that this quaint is a fairly early one. Unlike all of my other quaints, where the grooves are short, the grooves on this one form long largely continuous lines that flow down the bowl and down the shank.
 
Dec 10, 2013
2,616
3,346
Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Congrats Jesse, what a wonderful addition to your collection and in so crisp condition !
The two extra interesting things make it even more special.
Unfortunately the seller did not ship to the Netherlands, I watched the auction with sorrow :)
Judperl recently sold a Quaint as being pre transition; which it is obviously not :


Much overpriced imho . I own a similar one, a shape 6, bought it for a song.
It is a decent pipe , pleasing to the eye and a great smoker, but $152,50 ? Nah..think not.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,757
49,224
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Congrats Jesse, what a wonderful addition to your collection and in so crisp condition !
The two extra interesting things make it even more special.
Unfortunately the seller did not ship to the Netherlands, I watched the auction with sorrow :)
Judperl recently sold a Quaint as being pre transition; which it is obviously not :


Much overpriced imho . I own a similar one, a shape 6, bought it for a song.
It is a decent pipe , pleasing to the eye and a great smoker, but $152,50 ? Nah..think not.
It's not a pre-Transition or a Family Era pipe. Imperial came up with a half dozen "quaint" designs that were turned out in multiples, unlike the Family Era Quaints, which were one-of-a-kind. I've mentioned them in the pipedia barling page.

The pipe did go for a goodly sum as these usually fetch around $50 to $100. It did get 18 bids, which is a good amount, so this pipe definitely garnered some interest. The pipe looks to be in very good condition. Did it reach the closing price based on its own merit or because of an error in its description? Did the pipe hit the price it hit because everyone thought it was a vastly under priced Family Era Quaint.

The argument is that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It's a bit simplistic as a conclusion. Taken at face value, this argument implies that the pipe is worth the money paid because the money was paid for it. But it doesn't take into account the possibility of error. Granted, the error in the listing was easily spotted by anyone with a little knowledge about what they were buying, but the listing error is there.

Even with the error, isn't the pipe worth what was paid for it? That would also depend on the buyer's motivation. Was the buyer aware that the pipe was not as described but decided that he wanted it enough to pay what he paid, or did the buyer mistakenly think that he had underpaid for a far more valuable "collectible" pipe.

This is the issue with "collectible" valuations. Almost all of it is based on fashion and trends. Intrinsic value is ephemeral. Today's $1000 pipe could be tomorrow's kindling.
 

Kottan

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 5, 2020
508
1,333
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Yesterday I was able to snap a small Charatan apple (122X Belvedere) . It fills another gab in my classical catalog shapes (numbered spapes) collection. I think this speciment was made between 1964 – 1970. In the 1967 Charatan flyer (when they introduced shape numbers, with the first figure indicating the group size) are shown two sizes, 122X and 2122X. The next larger sizes of this shape have 3 numbers in their shape code again i.e. 322X and 422X. In case a CD stem was fitted the codes would contain the letters CD instead of an X.

Pipe, Camps, pipe, pijp CHARATAN Belvedere 122 x | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pipe-Camps-pipe-pijp-CHARATAN-Belvedere-122-x-/324527910703?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=eE6uKeF3XGtZV8czJEx%252BCPJKtHo%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

.