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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,209
60,170
I have a friend who is happily retired to Hawaii from the Chicago Board of Trade where he was their graphic designer, but I also had a friend who went to Hawaii to interview for law school at U.H. and was sucker punched after a luau sustaining brain injury and dying there, so Hawaii gets mixed reviews from me.

I lived for eight months in the Hawaiian chain, a thousand miles plus from Honolulu on Midway Island where the alcohol and tobacco flowed in an endless stream. That very low-lying atoll island is in peril from rising sea level; I think the elevation is few feet. Once the runway floods, it's seaplane or ship rescue only. The current inhabitants, about 40 people, are with the Dept. of Interior or with research groups or support contractors.

I'm sorry for your mis-governance.
 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,286
69,398
60
Vegas Baby!!!
I’m from the government and I’m here to help.


Also, the sugar lobby helped create the original food pyramid.

Also, the government is also more than happy to obscure facts and then propagandize THEIR truth. Example. Gun violence among teenagers. Remove gangs and 19 year old and the numbers fall off a Cliff. But that ruins the narrative.

Same with unemployment. Total manipulation of numbers.
 

SBC

Lifer
Oct 6, 2021
1,357
6,409
NE Wisconsin
And after 60 years of power seekers beating the "tobacco is the biggest evil visited on Man since the dawn of time" drum, everyone KNOWS it must be true because it FEELS true... because their FRIENDS think it's true, and the billboards and television shows SAY it's true.

This is the most important point made here. When evil sees that it will face incredulity from people like us, it switches to the long game of cultivating subjective plausibility.

Via the state schools, via the likeable or unlikeable light in which a thing is cast on movies and shows, etc., a new plausibility -- and eventually an opposite incredulity -- is cultivated.

To those of us who haven't been groomed, it looks as though they're acting impatiently, now. But in fact they've been very patient. They're simply harvesting now the fruit that they planted a long time ago.
 

warren99

Lifer
Aug 16, 2010
1,635
20,000
California
Its the macademia nuts ! ;):ROFLMAO:

Serving Size 0.25 Cup (33 g)
Calories 237
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 25 g 32%
Saturated Fat 4 g 20%
Trans Fat 0 g
Cholesterol 0 mg 0%
Sodium 1 mg 0%
Potassium 0 mg 0%
Total Carbohydrate 4 g 1%
Dietary Fiber 3 g 11%
Sugar 1 g
Protein 3 g 6%
*Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.
20% saturated fat? Nothing that a good statin like Lipitor won't handle. :LOL:
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,027
42,363
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I said "FDA approved" because all of the processed, chemically laden, nutritionally deficient crap we call food sold for human consumption is FDA approved.
As is all the non processed , organically grown food etc, etc. Bottom line, if someone wants to overdoes on Twinkies and lard that's on them
 

proteus

Part of the Furniture Now
May 20, 2023
713
1,244
53
Connecticut (shade leaf tobacco country)
I don't understand this law. It seems to say shippers or pipe shops need a license for vapes and tobacco and nicotine products. There is extra tax to pay of course. Wouldn't retailers just get the license? The law bites for sure and makes everything more expensive no doubt. Seems to me like it's still possible though to get pipe tobacco albeit with more cost unless the pipe shop or shipper won't get a license. Seems strange though that pipes themselves are not mentioned from what I read. And yet recreational marijuana was approved by the Senate in March and decriminalization as well. I guess kids aren't tempted to smoke it anymore. So they still sell alcohol? Its all about the vape... :rolleyes: Laws make no sense sometimes. Why ban vape and tobacco imports, just restrict it. Guess ill never understand politics.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,027
42,363
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I don't understand this law. It seems to say shippers or pipe shops need a license for vapes and tobacco and nicotine products. There is extra tax to pay of course. Wouldn't retailers just get the license? The law bites for sure and makes everything more expensive no doubt. Seems to me like it's still possible though to get pipe tobacco albeit with more cost unless the pipe shop or shipper won't get a license. Seems strange though that pipes themselves are not mentioned from what I read. And yet recreational marijuana was approved by the Senate in March and decriminalization as well. I guess kids aren't tempted to smoke it anymore. So they still sell alcohol? Its all about the vape... :rolleyes: Laws make no sense sometimes. Why ban vape and tobacco imports, just restrict it. Guess ill never understand politics.
Simply put, starting July 1 it will be illegal to ship tobacco products, including electronic smoking devices and e-liquid, into the islands to people and businesses without a license. So, you or I need to be licensed to send tobacco to people or businesses in the Islands, or risk having it seized, while licensed distributors and businesses aren't really affected.

It's just another step in the "death by a thousand cuts" approach to marginalizing tobacco use, and comparatively speaking a pretty minor one.

People are always trying to draw some equivalency between tobacco and marijuana when there isn't any. The US prohibition against marijuana was an expensive and destructive failure, except for criminals and cartels which it made fabulously rich and politically powerful.

As medicinal values for using marijuana, initially for cancer patients on chemotherapy, became widely known, repealing the prohibition became more and more popular and defensible. But it also sets in motion the ability to gather, publish and distribute research and stats regarding its harmful effects and to begin the same "death by a thousand cuts" approach that's been effective in socially marginalizing tobacco use.

People love forbidden fruit, but hate rotten fruit.
 

proteus

Part of the Furniture Now
May 20, 2023
713
1,244
53
Connecticut (shade leaf tobacco country)
Simply put, starting July 1 it will be illegal to ship tobacco products, including electronic smoking devices and e-liquid, into the islands to people and businesses without a license. So, you or I need to be licensed to send tobacco to people or businesses in the Islands, or risk having it seized, while licensed distributors and businesses aren't really affected.

It's just another step in the "death by a thousand cuts" approach to marginalizing tobacco use, and comparatively speaking a pretty minor one.

People are always trying to draw some equivalency between tobacco and marijuana when there isn't any. The US prohibition against marijuana was an expensive and destructive failure, except for criminals and cartels which it made fabulously rich and politically powerful.

As medicinal values for using marijuana, initially for cancer patients on chemotherapy, became widely known, repealing the prohibition became more and more popular and defensible. But it also sets in motion the ability to gather, publish and distribute research and stats regarding its harmful effects and to begin the same "death by a thousand cuts" approach that's been effective in socially marginalizing tobacco use.

People love forbidden fruit, but hate rotten fruit.
I was only relating society's attitude today about marijuana being permissive, lax and accepting - removing consumption barriers - yet tobacco is still considered a serious health problem and more and more barriers are being put in place. Nicotine has been shown to help cognition and memory, is antidepressant, helps Alzheimers, helps schizophrenia, Parkinsons and many other conditions. THC has similar studies to show similar benefit. I was not making an equivalency argument rather a consistency argument. For years THC was denied to have any benefit despite these studies. And now these politicians say its ok. Nictotine is still a scourge yet also has studies showing benefit. Why the double standard? These politicians as you know make it up as they go. The protection of a child argument fails in the face of these other substances like THC which already have child protection in place yet seemingly have less barriers for adults to obtain than nicotine products.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,163
24,617
Hawaii
There is no mention about tobacco being illegal to ship, unless this write up here, is only a brief description, otherwise the news and media is giving a different possible incorrect interpretation.

I’m not sure, I’ll keep digging around,

Here is the Government page on this.


I’m not sure how this is suppose to be interpreted.

unlawful shipment of tobacco products.

So, what is suppose to constitute “unlawful”.

Because next. it states this;

This includes electronic smoking devices and e-liquids under the definition of “tobacco products” for purposes of the cigarette tax and tobacco tax law.

Later it goes on to say;

“S.B. No. 975 is a step in the right direction in our fight to curb the use of e-cigarettes among our youth population, while also providing comprehensive regulation of tobacco products in Hawaiʻi,”

Reading through this, it seems more targeted at vaping and e-cigarettes.

hmm hmm hmm 🤔
 
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PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,163
24,617
Hawaii
Here’s the SB975 Legislative page, I believe this is it in it’s entirety.


The link at the page leads here to the bill.


Ahhh there is a clause here on tobacco shipments;

(b) This section shall not apply to the shipment of tobacco products if any of the following conditions are met:

(1) The tobacco products are exempt from taxes as provided by section 245-3(b); or

(2) All applicable state taxes on the tobacco products are paid in accordance with the requirements of this chapter.

As far as I can tell for now, this is in regards to retailers...
 
Last edited:

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,163
24,617
Hawaii
This looks more like it’s about unlawful retail sales without license or selling to minors.

I didn’t read this about completely banning for adults and businesses who are legally licensed.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
4,163
24,617
Hawaii
SPC said they won’t be shipping to Hawaii, I believe from further reading, only a licensed/permit business can receive tobacco into Hawaii.
 
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brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,457
14,073
As is all the non processed , organically grown food etc, etc. Bottom line, if someone wants to overdoes on Twinkies and lard that's on them
Of course. And the same should apply to tobacco.

My comment was in reply to the tired response that tobacco restrictions and penalties are due to medical costs. This is simply not true at all in regard to pipes and cigars. And even cigarette related has very, very little to do with the epidemic of cancers and numerous chronic illnesses in every age group these days, including young children.

There's no punitive fat tax because the whole country would revolt. I can just imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth across the land if all of the shit-food was targeted in the manner that tobacco is. At least in that case a legitimate argument regarding medical costs could be made.

And no...I am not advocating for restrictions and penalties on shit food. I'm advocating for consistency and against double standards (as another member here mentioned).

But the current era has taken bullshit, inconsistency and double standards regarding all kinds of things (many of which can't be discussed here) to an all-time high...and not only do few seem to notice it, but many seem to relish it.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,027
42,363
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I was only relating society's attitude today about marijuana being permissive, lax and accepting - removing consumption barriers - yet tobacco is still considered a serious health problem and more and more barriers are being put in place. Nicotine has been shown to help cognition and memory, is antidepressant, helps Alzheimers, helps schizophrenia, Parkinsons and many other conditions. THC has similar studies to show similar benefit. I was not making an equivalency argument rather a consistency argument. For years THC was denied to have any benefit despite these studies. And now these politicians say its ok. Nictotine is still a scourge yet also has studies showing benefit. Why the double standard? These politicians as you know make it up as they go. The protection of a child argument fails in the face of these other substances like THC which already have child protection in place yet seemingly have less barriers for adults to obtain than nicotine products.
The answer to using the therapeutic aspects of nicotine would involve non smoking use. It's the burning of tobacco that gives off the compounds associated with its health risks.. That's one of the reasons why medical journals, like the Lancet, initially took a favorable view of vaping as a way to get ones nicotine fix in a safe manner.
As for double standards, the same thing could be said, and has been said, regarding marijuana and tobacco because tobacco was legal and marijuana was not.
Rather than a double standard, I think it's the current state of knowledge and as more information comes in about the negative effects of smoking marijuana become known, the same forces that are marginalizing tobacco will be using this new information to marginalize marijuana.
Anyone choosing to set a virtuous tone one way or the other is setting a very low bar for virtue.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,223
12,425
Of course. And the same should apply to tobacco.

My comment was in reply to the tired response that tobacco restrictions and penalties are due to medical costs. This is simply not true at all in regard to pipes and cigars. And even cigarette related has very, very little to do with the epidemic of cancers and numerous chronic illnesses in every age group these days, including young children.

There's no punitive fat tax because the whole country would revolt. I can just imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth across the land if all of the shit-food was targeted in the manner that tobacco is. At least in that case a legitimate argument regarding medical costs could be made.

And no...I am not advocating for restrictions and penalties on shit food. I'm advocating for consistency and against double standards (as another member here mentioned).

But the current era has taken bullshit, inconsistency and double standards regarding all kinds of things (many of which can't be discussed here) to an all-time high...and not only do few seem to notice it, but many seem to relish it.


Have you ever stood at the end of a dock and tossed bits of food into the water, and marveled at how the minnows, carp, etc (the species doesn't matter) swarm to the splash, eat the food, then wait for the next tidbit?

You can practically play the fish like an instrument, tossing short, then long, then to one side, then the other. They rush in eagerly to investigate every time.

Humans who want power do the same thing with the masses, trying endless combinations of tone---virtue, outrage, caring, etc.---and issues until something attracts the fish.

They don't give the slightest shit about truth, fact, history, biology, physics, or anything else whatsoever---those things can be back-filled or shouted down (people "cancelled") as necessary---they just want the HEADCOUNT. People who believe in The Cause, whatever it is, and are willing to become soldiers.

From Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite to Chaiman Mao, the dynamic is always the same. Only the scale differs.

Tobacco has become a low-hanging fruit over the past 50 years. Like an Erector set for future structural engineers, it's an easy issue for policians to learn the Attract Supporters Game with.

Killer-bad FOOD, on the other hand, attracts no fish. Neither does alcohol or marijuana.