Germain and Sons Stopping Production?

[Snow Hill]

View attachment 191697Just a subtle reminder to stay away from the newer production stuff, picked up a bag of Stonehaven for my father just the other day, and it seems that long gone are the days of Stonehaven’s jet-black flakes.
The famed Stonehaven smell is ethereal at best, barely there. Bummer.

Thanks for sharing your experience and picture, @Copernicuslyrun. I agree with you - that is a real bummer.

 

[Worknman]

I remember it being discussed before that Germain made blends can often change from one batch to another. It was chalked up to what gave it the British charm sort of speak. Like you can picture the guys showing up for work after having a few too many pints at the pub the night before, and then firing up the ancient equipment and giving it a go.

 

[bullet08]

Good read. A shop help made a speculation about a company, and 8 pages of an entertainment. Good thing I like BriarWorks blends. I don't think anyone cares this much their blends.

 

[sablebrush52]

I remember it being discussed before that Germain made blends can often change from one batch to another. It was chalked up to what gave it the British charm sort of speak. Like you can picture the guys showing up for work after having a few too many pints at the pub the night before, and then firing up the ancient equipment and giving it a go.

I was one of those who considered their variations part of their charm. But, some variations aren't charming.

 

[rmpeeps]

I was told the other day that Rebecca Creek Whiskey was closing, because Rebecca died.
I guess all that advertising on Yellowstone did her in….

 

[karam]

I'm sure you saw the revised reviews I posted here, and I did not post all of them. I find K&K to be the major culprit in changing blends. It isn't just the Virginias that are different, but toppings as well in some blends, e.g., Solani Aged Burley and Wessex Burley Flake. HU has been heavily discussed, and a friend told me a few days ago that Janneman Flake is different now, though I haven't had the chance to find out for myself.

At least a few Sam Gawith blends have changed: St. James Flake and Plug, FVF and Plug, and 1792. A forum friend who knows his tobaccos is sending me samples of the plugs so I can revise my reviews. I saw them yesterday during our weekly zoom meeting, and the color of the plugs have changed, so I suspect the flavor has as well. As soon as I get them, I'll report what I learn.

I have seen several reports from knowledgeable smokers that there are changes in a few G&H blends, but I can't tell you that from personal experience. But, I trust those people and believe them.

I do believe the problem is that the quality of Virginias has diminished, but I also believe their is cost cutting going on. For instance, K&K completely removed Dark Fired Kentucky for Peter Heinrichs Dark Strong, and replaced it with fire cured black cavendish. That certainly cheapened the blend.

Regarding Esoterica: Tilbury has changed twice in the past year, and had changed in 2020 when they heavily doused the tobacco with apricot. Dunbar was weaker in 2020 than it was before, and the last drop proved to me that it's changed again. In case you haven't seen my updated reviews on Dunbar and Tilbury, I'll post them. I saw a photo of the current Stonehaven, and it certainly is lighter in color, which makes me suspect it was changed. I'd like to try it and see for myself.

Dunbar:
My original 10-13-2013 review: The bright and darker Virginias provide a lot of tart and tangy citrus, vegetative grass/hay, bread, a fair amount of tangy dark fruit, earth, wood, floralness, mild sugar. light sour lemon. and a touch of vinegar and acidity as the lead components. The earthy, woody perique produces a moderate amount plums, raisins, figs and pepper. It offers secondary support rather than full support. The apricot topping is very mild, and doesn’t tone down the tobaccos much. The strength and taste levels are medium. The nic-hit is a step below that mark. No chance of bite or harshness. Has a few rough edges. Well balanced with some richness, it burns cool and clean at a reasonable rate with a very consistent fruity, mildly spicy, floral, lightly sour flavor that extends to the moderately lingering, pleasant after taste. The room note is a little more potent. Leaves little dampness in the bowl, and requires an average number of relights. Not quite an all day smoke. Four stars.


Update 12-23-2022. I have tried three samples from 2020, 2021, and 2022 drops, and the blend has been changed. The tart and tangy, more sour citrus is more dominant, and the tangy dark fruit is in the background. The sour lemon is much more obvious than before as is the acidity. That’s because there’s more bright, and the dark Virginias are cut with a lighter grade. The perique is more plummy, and not quite as sweet. Neither are the Virginias. The overall spice content is slightly stronger because of the brighter Virginias, and the perique has lost a step of potency from earlier versions. The floralness is more pronounced. Has a little more roughness, but won’t bite, though fast puffing may grant you a small harsh note. These aspects are elevated more in the 2022 productions than the previous two years, but not by much. The apricot isn’t quite as deep as before nor is the overall flavor as rich. The strength, nic-hit and taste levels remain consistent over the years. All other characteristics are the same as I noted in my original review. Two stars for the current manufactures I have experienced. My current rating reflects these years, and not the earlier years.

Tilbury:
There's a natural Virginia buttery tart and tangy citrus sweetness along with some hay/grass, bread, a little tangy dark fruit, wood and earth, and a honey note due to the expert mix of gold and dark Virginias. You get much of the full range of tastes that those Virginias usually have to offer. The burley is nutty and toast-like with an earthy, woodsy flavor that gets a little stronger as you smoke it down. The burley is almost a competitive component. The fruity smell out of the tin or bag allows you to think an apricot topping is present, and I claim it was added in the casing of the Virginia, but this varietal tastes lightly fermented in any case. The tobacco is ribbon cut and a little stringy, so it burns at a moderate pace, cool and clean with a very consistent sweet, nutty and woody, lightly rugged flavor from start to finish. The strength and taste levels are medium. The nic-hit is a step or two below that mark. Has no dull or harsh spots, and won't bite. Has a few rough edges. Leaves a little dampness in the bowl, and requires an average number of relights if you've given it a light dry time. I recommend that. Has a pleasant, lingering woody, nutty sweet after taste and stronger room note.

11-2-2022 Update: I have recently smoked several batches of Tilbury from 2019 to 2022, and have experienced a moderately stronger apricot topping every time. That subdues the tobaccos more than it did in previous productions. I'm not changing my rating, but I am recording the difference for those who read this review.

12-20-22 Update: The latest drop of Tilbury produces another change in the product. The apricot is barely noticeable. The Virginias are not sweet nor are they as complex as the pre-apricot dosed version discussed in my original review. This only has light touch of dark fruit, more tartly sour citrus, and I notice a smoke note that I never encountered in any version. There’s a little more sharpness and is mildly more sour as well. The Virginias remind me very much of those currently used in Dunbar, which are a downgrade from past manufactures. Three stars for this December 2022 version.

Thanks Jim. Two points: glad (in a way) to read about fire cured black Cavendish, I always suspected this black stuff in many K&K blends can’t be DFK. The second point is about Janneman… why the hell??? I love this blend and wanted to get a lot more of it but thought “eh, they won’t mess with that”.

And the bold part folks is why it’s always better to buy a lot of what you like, today, not tomorrow.

 

[pappymac]

Before we vilify all the tobacco producers, let's remember that there MAY be a number of things they can't control. Jim touched on it earlier - suppliers who quit growing tobacco to grow other crops, for example.

There is also no guarantee that a crop is exactly the same from one year to another and that can also affect a blend. A friend of mine who worked in the wine industry for over 20 years told me vineyards have the same problem with crops and that why one year bottling can be award winning and the next year the same wine may be in the "meh" category.

 

[woodsroad]

Jim is right. I've been hearing rumors of Orlik stopping production for a few years now and they still keep making tins.

Ha!
"Orlik" is now just another brand name owned by STG. STG is the largest manufacturer and distributor of pipe tobacco in the world. I don't think that they are shutting down any time soon.

 

[bullet08]

Last time I freak out was when Marlboro Light became.. Marlboro Gold Pack!!! Oh!!! The horror!!!

 

[woodsroad]

I'm sure you saw the revised reviews I posted here, and I did not post all of them. I find K&K to be the major culprit in changing blends. It isn't just the Virginias that are different, but toppings as well in some blends, e.g., Solani Aged Burley and Wessex Burley Flake. HU has been heavily discussed, and a friend told me a few days ago that Janneman Flake is different now, though I haven't had the chance to find out for myself.
...

As long as I've smoked Germain blends, the only thing consistent about them was their inconsistency.

 

[Oddball]

With the risk of being voted off the island, I'd like to add that if they close the loss of variety would be sad but their tobacco isn't measurably better than any of the other quality blenders... I have had 6 of their blends and they are all great but not anything near the hype that some folks pay for or youtube about.

I think the differences in all these blends and blenders and such are so small that for the average smoker, like say a goon like me that might smoke 2-3 bowls a week, it just doesn't matter.

I hope it's not true but I would also love a flood of the US market so people could get a few tins, realize that their more readily available stuff is comparable, and happily puff away at what they can get on the reg.


My Cellar has nearly every major brand in it, curing away but few are more than two tins deep. One for now and one for later.. not one for if I live to be 119.

Full disclaimer: I am still a newbie, only being on the pipe for about 4 years. I haven't tried all the blends out there, or even half of what's in my cellar. That being said, I still smoke what I have. Last year for a once a year friends trip I popped a tin of Tilbury. It was a good few bowls off the top. The bottom of the tin was molded. Was the tobacco good? Yes. Was I disappointed there was mold? Yes. In reflection did I feel like it was a blend that was leaps and bounds above any other blends? Not really, no. My Favorite English to date is Skiff. I don't get any bite from Mac Baren. I have never had a bowl of Mclellands. The oldest tobacco I've had is some Dunhill 3 year matured, ten years opened, from the 60s. I'm a sucker for a pinch of PS Cube Cut Burley out of the bulk jar...

 

[sablebrush52]

It was a good few bowls off the top. The bottom of the tin was molded.

If you encounter that situation again, consider tossing out the tin. If there's any mold in a tin, EVERYTHING in that tin is affected, and tobacco molds are highly toxic. You got lucky, or it might have been plume, not mold. You only get one pair of lungs.

 

[Oddball]

If you encounter that situation again, consider tossing out the tin. If there's any mold in a tin, EVERYTHING in that tin is affected, and tobacco molds are highly toxic. You got lucky, or it might have been plume, not mold. You only get one pair of lungs.

Once I discovered the mold I sprinkled the remaining contents onto the fire in an act of offering to the gods of Pipe.


Then I opened my jar of skiff remnants and enjoyed the rest of the weekend!

 

[jguss]

If you encounter that situation again, consider tossing out the tin.

Or gifting it in next year’s Secret Santa exchange. Just remember to say it’s plume. Plume good, mold bad.

 

[TheWhale13]

Why speculate on this?

 

[FLDRD]

Sure you aren't collecting Merde de Cheval?

Hey, I like that blend and have some for the future...

 

[mingc]

With the risk of being voted off the island, I'd like to add that if they close the loss of variety would be sad but their tobacco isn't measurably better than any of the other quality blenders... I have had 6 of their blends and they are all great but not anything near the hype that some folks pay for or youtube about.

I think the differences in all these blends and blenders and such are so small that for the average smoker, like say a goon like me that might smoke 2-3 bowls a week, it just doesn't matter.

I hope it's not true but I would also love a flood of the US market so people could get a few tins, realize that their more readily available stuff is comparable, and happily puff away at what they can get on the reg.


My Cellar has nearly every major brand in it, curing away but few are more than two tins deep. One for now and one for later.. not one for if I live to be 119.

Full disclaimer: I am still a newbie, only being on the pipe for about 4 years. I haven't tried all the blends out there, or even half of what's in my cellar. That being said, I still smoke what I have. Last year for a once a year friends trip I popped a tin of Tilbury. It was a good few bowls off the top. The bottom of the tin was molded. Was the tobacco good? Yes. Was I disappointed there was mold? Yes. In reflection did I feel like it was a blend that was leaps and bounds above any other blends? Not really, no. My Favorite English to date is Skiff. I don't get any bite from Mac Baren. I have never had a bowl of Mclellands. The oldest tobacco I've had is some Dunhill 3 year matured, ten years opened, from the 60s. I'm a sucker for a pinch of PS Cube Cut Burley out of the bulk jar...

By my last count, there are only 7 pipe-tobacco manufacturers of significant size remaining in the world:

1. C&D - US
2. Mac Baren - Denmark
3. STG - Denmark
4. K&K - Germany
5. DTM - Germany
6. G&H - Brit
7. Germain's - Brit

The others, like Sutliff and Sam Gawith, are all owned by one of the above or get their leaf from the above. Have I missed any? If Germain's closes, it'll be a HUGE loss. It's not a question of whether other blenders are better. It's a question of whether other blenders make anything like Germain's. They don't, not really. Germain's toppings are pretty unique.

Japan Tobacco does make Condor and Revor Plug, both in Poland I think. They're not available in the US.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

By my last count, there are only 7 pipe-tobacco manufacturers of significant size remaining in the world:

1. C&D - US
2. Mac Baren - Denmark
3. STG - Denmark
4. K&K - Germany
5. DTM - Germany
6. G&H - Brit
7. Germain's - Brit

The others, like Sutliff and Sam Gawith, are all owned by one of the above or get their leaf from the above. Have I missed any? If Germain's closes, it'll be a HUGE loss. It's not a question of whether other blenders are better. It's a question of whether other blenders make anything like Germain's. They don't, not really. Germain's toppings are pretty unique.

Japan Tobacco does make Condor and Revor Plug, both in Poland I think. They're not available in the US.

Was Peter Stokkebye absorbed by someone else? They were connected to Orlik at one time, but I can't find anything online that says that they no longer produce their own tobaccos.

 

[mingc]

Was Peter Stokkebye absorbed by someone else? They were connected to Orlik at one time, but I can't find anything online that says that they no longer produce their own tobaccos.

STG. https://peterstokkebyeusa.com/gate/ (scroll to the bottom)

Also this from Kevin Godbee: https://pipesmagazine.com/blog/industry-spotlight/stokkebye-lane-stg-shake-up/

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

Japan Tobacco does make Condor and Revor Plug, both in Poland I think. They're not available in the US.

I don't think Japan Tobacco make Revor. Do they?