Germain and Sons Stopping Production?

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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
16,910
31,711
46
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I signed up for Plum Cake alerts on smokingpipes and tobaccopipes many months ago. Checked yesterday and im still on alert.
the alerts are good but I think they work on a first come first served basis. The alert I signed up for took three drops before I got my notification. In fact I forgot I made that request. It was for a blend that was recommended that I needed to try.
 
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Reactions: Deano
Jan 28, 2018
14,090
159,246
67
Sarasota, FL
Exactly. There's no "evidence" other than what long time smokers of these blends, are experiencing when they smoke the latest versions. The evidence is in the taste. Hell, you can take apart the blends and spread out the individual leaf and see it's not the same. Seriously, go do that.

Personally, I'm not going to spend money on buying every blend of the 2020 thru 2022 releases for comparison with earlier versions, but Dunbar is down the toilet, RDF isn't nearly what it was when I was buying it in 2014, but I'll rely on what 's coming back to me from people who've tried some of the other blends that they've smoked for years, and who I know to have really sensitive palates and are well known and respected for them.

And where's the surprise? Changes to components in blends has been going on for the past several years. It's not just Director's Cut, it's a number of the older HU blends and Rattrays' etc made by one of the few conglomerates putting out a bunch of empty brand names. Pick apart the components in the tin between 2018 and now. Complaints over Solani, Wessex Campaign Dark flake, Cabbies Mixture, etc, etc. So all these long time smokers are delusional? You want evidence? Pull out tins from years ago and from now and break down the contents.
I don't see wide spread reporting. I see you bringing up your thoughts on Dunbar based upon opening one bag. I don't necessarily doubt you're into something and I certainly don't doubt your palate out industry experience. I just think it's a bit premature to be nailing the lid on the coffin.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,061
50,671
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Well, if you never smoked their 2020 or earlier releases you won't know the difference, so why worry?

@JimInks and I were talking about this last night and we both think there's a lot of changes happening throughout the blending industry as suppliers disappear, turning to growing other crops, and substitutions get made. Label stays the same, contents not so much


^^^^^^^^^^
This

I have been talking to some friends about buying several hundred pounds of various raw leaf before crops dry up , but you’d have to be an insider and have boots on the ground , could be a huge turnover seeing what McCLeland tins go for these days
I agree totally. Buy a blend because you like it, but be wary of reputational guarantees. What's in the tin now may not be what was in the tin just a few years ago, but if you like what you're smoking, that's all that matters.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,061
50,671
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I don't see wide spread reporting. I see you bringing up your thoughts on Dunbar based upon opening one bag. I don't necessarily doubt you're into something and I certainly don't doubt your palate out industry experience. I just think it's a bit premature to be nailing the lid on the coffin.
Actually it's more than one bag and not just me as we swapped samples from several bags. It's also not my place to mention others, not all of whom I know personally. Since I didn't buy Tilbury, I stopped buying any Esoterica for myself years ago, I'm just reporting back the results I'm getting on other bag sample swaps. And I'm hardly the only one reporting on changes going on, as reviews are being rewritten and published here, on other forums and at tobacoreviews to reflect change in blends.

As far as Germain's going away, I don't see why that would be the case. They'll continue to offer up their blends with what's available to them, as do other blenders, like K&K. Hopefully people will enjoy what they're offering.

Since the bloom is already off this vine, maybe the frenzy will die down a bit.
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
45,382
120,175
Actually it's more than one bag and not just me as we swapped samples from several bags. It's also not my place to mention others, not all of whom I know personally. Since I didn't buy Tilbury, I stopped buying any Esoterica for myself years ago, I'm just reporting back the results I'm getting on other bag sample swaps. And I'm hardly the only one reporting on changes going on, as reviews are being rewritten and published here, on other forums and at tobacoreviews to reflect change in blends.

As far as Germain's going away, I don't see why that would be the case. They'll continue to offer up their blends with what's available to them, as do other blenders, like K&K. Hopefully people will enjoy what they're offering.

Since the bloom is already off this vine, maybe the frenzy will die down a bit.
Sounds like Germain's is working from the same model as GH.
 
Jan 30, 2020
2,335
7,705
New Jersey
But a constant cycle of SKUs doesn't benefit anyone. I don't mind blends changing over time as regulations or source product dictate, but I do think it would be beneficial to clearly acknowledge a production year. At least then a consumer can accurately discern a profile they've enjoyed and purchase it.
 

jaytex1969

Lifer
Jun 6, 2017
9,655
52,060
Here
Drop lines or blends and replace them with new ones.
But a constant cycle of SKUs doesn't benefit anyone.

The hands of the producers may be somewhat tied by the "deeming regulations", which state that products not on the market before a certain date have to go through expensive and lengthy bureaucratic processes to make it to the shelf.

They may replace perfect grades with mediocre grades, but the "official content" is still the same, sidestepping the deeming crap.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!"



1672695604440.png
 

JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
65,001
659,827
I don't see wide spread reporting. I see you bringing up your thoughts on Dunbar based upon opening one bag. I don't necessarily doubt you're into something and I certainly don't doubt your palate out industry experience. I just think it's a bit premature to be nailing the lid on the coffin.
I'm sure you saw the revised reviews I posted here, and I did not post all of them. I find K&K to be the major culprit in changing blends. It isn't just the Virginias that are different, but toppings as well in some blends, e.g., Solani Aged Burley and Wessex Burley Flake. HU has been heavily discussed, and a friend told me a few days ago that Janneman Flake is different now, though I haven't had the chance to find out for myself.

At least a few Sam Gawith blends have changed: St. James Flake and Plug, FVF and Plug, and 1792. A forum friend who knows his tobaccos is sending me samples of the plugs so I can revise my reviews. I saw them yesterday during our weekly zoom meeting, and the color of the plugs have changed, so I suspect the flavor has as well. As soon as I get them, I'll report what I learn.

I have seen several reports from knowledgeable smokers that there are changes in a few G&H blends, but I can't tell you that from personal experience. But, I trust those people and believe them.

I do believe the problem is that the quality of Virginias has diminished, but I also believe their is cost cutting going on. For instance, K&K completely removed Dark Fired Kentucky for Peter Heinrichs Dark Strong, and replaced it with fire cured black cavendish. That certainly cheapened the blend.

Regarding Esoterica: Tilbury has changed twice in the past year, and had changed in 2020 when they heavily doused the tobacco with apricot. Dunbar was weaker in 2020 than it was before, and the last drop proved to me that it's changed again. In case you haven't seen my updated reviews on Dunbar and Tilbury, I'll post them. I saw a photo of the current Stonehaven, and it certainly is lighter in color, which makes me suspect it was changed. I'd like to try it and see for myself.

Dunbar:
My original 10-13-2013 review: The bright and darker Virginias provide a lot of tart and tangy citrus, vegetative grass/hay, bread, a fair amount of tangy dark fruit, earth, wood, floralness, mild sugar. light sour lemon. and a touch of vinegar and acidity as the lead components. The earthy, woody perique produces a moderate amount plums, raisins, figs and pepper. It offers secondary support rather than full support. The apricot topping is very mild, and doesn’t tone down the tobaccos much. The strength and taste levels are medium. The nic-hit is a step below that mark. No chance of bite or harshness. Has a few rough edges. Well balanced with some richness, it burns cool and clean at a reasonable rate with a very consistent fruity, mildly spicy, floral, lightly sour flavor that extends to the moderately lingering, pleasant after taste. The room note is a little more potent. Leaves little dampness in the bowl, and requires an average number of relights. Not quite an all day smoke. Four stars.


Update 12-23-2022. I have tried three samples from 2020, 2021, and 2022 drops, and the blend has been changed. The tart and tangy, more sour citrus is more dominant, and the tangy dark fruit is in the background. The sour lemon is much more obvious than before as is the acidity. That’s because there’s more bright, and the dark Virginias are cut with a lighter grade. The perique is more plummy, and not quite as sweet. Neither are the Virginias. The overall spice content is slightly stronger because of the brighter Virginias, and the perique has lost a step of potency from earlier versions. The floralness is more pronounced. Has a little more roughness, but won’t bite, though fast puffing may grant you a small harsh note. These aspects are elevated more in the 2022 productions than the previous two years, but not by much. The apricot isn’t quite as deep as before nor is the overall flavor as rich. The strength, nic-hit and taste levels remain consistent over the years. All other characteristics are the same as I noted in my original review. Two stars for the current manufactures I have experienced. My current rating reflects these years, and not the earlier years.

Tilbury:
There's a natural Virginia buttery tart and tangy citrus sweetness along with some hay/grass, bread, a little tangy dark fruit, wood and earth, and a honey note due to the expert mix of gold and dark Virginias. You get much of the full range of tastes that those Virginias usually have to offer. The burley is nutty and toast-like with an earthy, woodsy flavor that gets a little stronger as you smoke it down. The burley is almost a competitive component. The fruity smell out of the tin or bag allows you to think an apricot topping is present, and I claim it was added in the casing of the Virginia, but this varietal tastes lightly fermented in any case. The tobacco is ribbon cut and a little stringy, so it burns at a moderate pace, cool and clean with a very consistent sweet, nutty and woody, lightly rugged flavor from start to finish. The strength and taste levels are medium. The nic-hit is a step or two below that mark. Has no dull or harsh spots, and won't bite. Has a few rough edges. Leaves a little dampness in the bowl, and requires an average number of relights if you've given it a light dry time. I recommend that. Has a pleasant, lingering woody, nutty sweet after taste and stronger room note.

11-2-2022 Update: I have recently smoked several batches of Tilbury from 2019 to 2022, and have experienced a moderately stronger apricot topping every time. That subdues the tobaccos more than it did in previous productions. I'm not changing my rating, but I am recording the difference for those who read this review.

12-20-22 Update: The latest drop of Tilbury produces another change in the product. The apricot is barely noticeable. The Virginias are not sweet nor are they as complex as the pre-apricot dosed version discussed in my original review. This only has light touch of dark fruit, more tartly sour citrus, and I notice a smoke note that I never encountered in any version. There’s a little more sharpness and is mildly more sour as well. The Virginias remind me very much of those currently used in Dunbar, which are a downgrade from past manufactures. Three stars for this December 2022 version.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,238
30,892
Hawaii
I opened a tin of Tilbury I got from the local B&M a few weeks ago and at first it had a very noticable topping. But now when I open the jar I definitely don't smell it anymore nor does it come through in the smoke.

My tin of Tilbury smells pretty bad actually, that fermented apricot Esoterica vibe, but a bit more of a musty/fermented stench.

I also have Brighton, Dorchester, and Dunbar, this smells the worst of the three, not really pleasant at all.
 
Jan 30, 2020
2,335
7,705
New Jersey
That's not what I was replying to. My post was in response to multiple SKUs not benefitting anyone. It's certainly worked for them.
I didn’t say multiple SKUs though. I said a constant cycle, or otherwise put, regularly creating a new SKU to replace a previous due to some perceived change on an endless cycle of new product.
 

jackets

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 11, 2017
111
300
Premal sent an email to customers this past fall saying he expects a new shipment in the works.
I was thinking about the SH blends the other day. It must have been a Year and a half or two years since they were last released right?