Pipes Magazine » General Pipe Smoking Discussion

Search Forums  
   
Tags:  No tags yet. 

Traffic Stop

(136 posts)
  1. cuchulain

    Flynn

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 224

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's been a long, arduous shift. I'm beat, but happy that the day is done. I hop in my truck, light up a bowl of ODF and head home.

    And then it happens. Blue lights flashing in the rearview. Apparently I was going a hair too quick for Smokey to let me go. He saunters up to the cab. License, registration, "Sorry sir, wasn't watching my speed."

    Then he sees the pipe in the console. Now, this could go two ways. Mr Trooper could just write the damn speeding ticket and go on his merry way. Hopefully Mr Trooper has the brains God gave a mouse and realizes that while the mini corncob pipes are often used for pot, the full sized models are for tobacco.

    Or, he could ask you to step outside, search you, confiscate your Buck knife for the duration of the stop, tear the damn truck apart and not find any drugs in the course of his futile attempt at search and seize, then cite you for a measly 3 over.

    He chooses the latter. Fantastic.

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."- John Wayne
    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    tear the damn truck apart and not find any drugs in the course of his futile attempt at search and seize,

    I'm assuming you are a US citizen.

    Unless you give consent to a search, without the evidence of marijuana or any drug use, he has no grounds to conduct a search (reasonable suspicion). Although it may be more rare than it use to be, pipe smoking isn't a reason to trigger a search.

    Never, ever consent to a search. If you did not consent to a search, get a lawyer and sue their asses for violation of the fourth amendment, they deserve to pay for a great PAD/TAD purchase....if you agreed to a search because "you had nothing to hide", you gave him permission to tear your truck apart and you forfeited your rights.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. pitchfork

    pitchfork

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 3,966

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    boss, I'm sure he "smelled" pot or saw "paraphernalia." Or maybe the cob was taking a "fighting stance." Doesn't matter these days. Sorry this happened to you, cuchulain.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    boss, I'm sure he "smelled" pot or saw "paraphernalia." Or maybe the cob was taking a "fighting stance." Doesn't matter these days.

    Just because he "smelled" pot doesn't mean jack...if it truly "doesn't matter these days", you choose to be a loyal subject.

    Apathetic citizens deserve to lose their freedoms..I choose not to.

    Not to be harsh here, But if a cop "smells pot" he better have some to plant, and I better have some in my system.
    If I get pulled over, my phone is in record mode, by the way.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. pitchfork

    pitchfork

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 3,966

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    boss, huh?

    EDIT: OK, I see you edited your post. Um, yeah -- I'm with ya all the way. I'm just pointing out that facts and laws don't matter so much in practice these days. Cops murder people, as I'm sure you know, and get away with it ("fighting stance," "officer safety"). I'm not advocating surrender or submission, just pointing out that Mr. Blue Light Special won't lose his badge for going medieval on a bowl of Carter Hall.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I guess it depends in a large degree where you live.

    Here in Az. it is a far cry from living in Chicago or NYC...not saying that there are no bad cops here, but generally speaking, people know their rights, and that fact isn't lost on the cops.

    FWIW, I'm pro-honest cop and good citizen, but I hate scumbags in either category.

    http://www.copblock.org/35482/phoenix-thug-cop-fired-ive-got-one-tool-to-beat-people-up-and-take-them-to-jail/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. pitchfork

    pitchfork

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 3,966

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Honest cops.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. anglesey

    anglesey

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2014
    Posts: 405

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The cop wasn't within his rights at all. Being an English Law legal opinion, I can't say too much, but give this a quick glance. I can't really be doing with the police, especially ones who exceed their duty. Take him to book. I hope you got his number or whatever identification your lot carry.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. dochudson

    dochudson

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 1,720

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    if you had not been over the speed limit none of this would have happened..

    did you display any 'attitude' with the officer?

    was this a local small town type cop?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    In Alabama, if you deny the search, they hold you there till they get a judge to give the ok over the radio and then conduct the search with a boot on your throat. Believe me, I've had this happen. And, you see it on the side of the road every day. And, when they do the search, they will even disassemble your seats and remove anything they can. Sure, you can deny the search, and they can also make your life miserable. Best just to let them do their quicky search with a smile. Besides, if you have nothing to hide, then you'll just let the police do what they want, is their mentality. Probable cause here can just be a "look" you may have.
    Welcome to Alabama, the jack booted thug state.

    Michael
    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. tbradsim1

    tbradsim1

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 7,727

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't want to ruffle feathers but most cops are good people putting their lives on the line for not many bucks. Does this mean my eyes are closed NO, In our Parish, we don't have County's we have a crooked Sherriff and I am one of the few who opposes him. There's good and bad in all disciplines , I"m sorry you were stopped but you were speeding. I"m glad for you it turned out Good.

    The Old Cajun
    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. igloo

    igloo

    Beware Trouble Maker
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 4,318

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Did he see you smoking the pipe ? If so at your age that is why he pulled you over .The el-lamo ticket is because he couldn't bust you on a drug charge and he felt ,well probably is stupid . I see drivers education and a wasted Saturday in your future and a dismissed ticket afterwards .

    “There was an awful suspicion in my mind that I'd finally gone over the hump, and the worst thing about it was that I didn't feel tragic at all, but only weary, and sort of comfortably detached.”
    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. apatim

    apatim

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 524

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The officer's behavior was inexcusable. Our liberties are quickly eroding and, unfortunately, too few people are in tune enough to make a difference.

    Enjoying my days on earth.

    Tim
    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. cuchulain

    Flynn

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 224

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't mean to come down on the cop here. He obviously felt he had probable cause, and thankfully it only takes about ten minutes to search and old single cab truck. It was just a major pain in the ass at the end of a long day.

    I didn't give an attitude, as I realize he was just doing his job. But a young 20-something year old with a pipe was apparently out of the ordinary enough to set off some alarm bells.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. tbradsim1

    tbradsim1

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 7,727

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I hear you Cuc didn't mean to come down on you also. You handled it good. I know it's just redassing, keep on keeping on.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,086

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I recently got out of a ticket during a traffic stop in rural Nevada specifically because I was smoking a pipe and it reminded him of his dad. FTR, the speeding ticket would have been a waste of resources ticket. $25 anything over 65 mph.

    But it's easier to comply on rural roads than take a stand. I've got nothing to hide so do your thing.

    Not sheeple talk.......experience.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. foggymountain

    foggymountain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 2,984

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sure glad I do not drive anymore. Just gives those fascists another excuse. These things happen because we, as a country, don't do anything about it. There will always be power crazy assholes.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. settersbrace

    settersbrace

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,622

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sucks, that's all there is too it. If you can afford the time and constitutional lawyer, have at but chances are your a regular schmuck like most of us.

    I'm a plumber, a pipe smoker and I'm licensed to conceal weapons. Imagine what they think when I get pulled over!? I certainly respect LEO's and know they have a job to do but lately it's apparent that common sense is being leeched out of them at the academy.

    De gustibus et cloribus non disputandum.
    'There is no arguing about tastes and colours.'
    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I have a bit of a lead foot and also like fast cars. That is a dangerous combination. I have got about 7 speeding tickets in the 3 years year, but I fought every one of them in court, and so far I have won every time (in 5 of those the officer never showed up to the trial). It is a bit of a hobby for me (along with pipes). Around here they always set up the speed traps where there is abrupt change of speed limit - and they roll in the bucks. Most folks just pay them. I don't. My approach is if it is $150 ticket then I want to cost them at least $5,000 to collect that from me. I go whole hog on the discovery process. I request copies of the officer's notes, information about the calibration that was done to the radar in question. I make it my hobby to be their worst nightmare. They don't have the manpower for this (at least where I live) - there are too many folks who just pay the ticket. In two cases they postponed my trial three times and I successfully brought a challenge under our Canadian Chart of Rights for unreasonable delay. Don't capitulate; fight.

    A few months ago I bought a high end radar detector which are illegal to have in the car up here, and it works like a charm. If I ever get stopped I will put it in my pocket. Even if they suspect I have one I won't consent to a search. Let them get a warrant, is my view.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. fadingdaylight

    fadingdaylight

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2013
    Posts: 1,272

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Pure genius peck, that is hilarious.

    - Jason
    "Lost in thought and lost in time... While the seeds of life and the seeds of change were planted... Outside the rain fell dark and slow... While I pondered on this dangerous but irresistible pastime..."
    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. yaddy306

    yaddy306

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 1,215

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    My approach is if it is $150 ticket then I want to cost them at least $5,000 to collect that from me.

    Congratulations on costing the taxpayers (e.g. You) five thousand dollars. That'll show them!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Congratulations on costing the taxpayers (e.g. You) five thousand dollars. That'll show them!

    That's like saying you shouldn't claim deductions in computing your income tax because it just costs taxpayers money!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. rockford

    rockford

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 117

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I suppose you could make that leap... In my opinion if I am caught speeding I knew I was doing so and that it is against the law. I would rather see the courts and police spend their energies addressing bigger issues so I begrudgingly pay the fine.
    On a positive note, since I switched to pipe smoking I have not received any tickets! (Used to be at least 3 per year,mostly photo radar right after a limit change as Peck described)

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. rmbittner

    rmbittner

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,203

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Peck: I'mdisturbed by the fact that you seem to be saying you actually were speeding 7 times, but you'll did everything in your power to not take responsibility for that.

    If you weren't speeding, that's one thing. But if you were: Why not pay the penalty? You knew what you were doing, and you knew the consequences. Here in the States, though, you likely wouldn't even have a license after the third ticket in three years.

    Bob

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. yaddy306

    yaddy306

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 1,215

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I need to get some things off my chest.

    As a police officer, I vehemently object to pitchfork's insinuation that there is no such thing as an "honest cop". As a cop spending my days helping to solve murders, drive-by shootings, and robberies, helping to put gang members and wife-beaters in jail, and trying my best to contribute positively to society and protect the citizens of my city while they sleep at night, I resent the implication.

    I can probably state that I know more cops personally than do most people on this forum, and can safely say that, as a group, police are as diverse as any occupation. Do some have "the brains that God gave a mouse"? Yes. Do some have postgraduate degrees? Yes (me included). Are some power-hungry jackbooted thugs? Maybe, although the ones I know are just trying to get home safe at the end of their shifts. Are they fascists? Not that I've met.

    At my department, there are 385 cops. Only about 16 of these are actually assigned to traffic enforcement. Everyone else is "solving actual crimes". Unfortunately, the average law-abiding citizen gets to meet one of these 16 if they interact with the police at all. Personally, I haven't written a traffic ticket in a decade. But even the traffic guys are not interested in wasting their time tearing apart someone's vehicle in a futile attempt to find drugs. They are more interested in catching the stoned driver that just raced through the school zone, almost killing your sons and daughters (and cops have kids too, after all).

    "Cops murder people", pitchfork says. Well, plumbers murder people too, settersbrace. Artists murder people, foggy. Lawyers murder, peck. Heck, housewives murder people. As tbradsim1 says, there is good and bad in all disciplines. It's simpleminded to paint everyone in an occupation with the same brush.

    Should you stand up for your rights? Absolutely. Should you complain to the officer's supervisor, cuchulain? Absolutely. Am I making excuses for anyone? No. Bad cops should be exposed and rooted out, wherever they are. But making broad allegations on a forum, and using emoticons (pitchfork) is not the way to make positive change in your community.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. rockford

    rockford

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 117

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yaddy, well said and thank you to you and yours for keeping the peace!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,650

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Interesting thread! Peck, it's great that you have 24/7 access to an ambulance chaser to do pro bono for you, but most of us would probably not want to spend the $500-800 an hour that attorneys charge for this particular purpose. Mind you, I have fought, successfully, a couple of tickets but in both cases, the call was questionable in the extreme, one of them downright fishy, and the court agreed.

    I've known a lot of police over the years and in the main find them to be straight up good guys, doing a difficult job for not a lot of compensation. But like any population, there are a few stinkers.

    I believe in fighting back when it's warranted and have done so with the IRS quite successfully. But in that instance I was in the right, the auditor was in the wrong, and I simply cited IRS rules, one after the other, to overturn the audit.

    The most important use of fighting back for me was in the case of my mother, who had developed dementia during the final years of her life. Her doctor had prescribed Aricept and we received a letter from her insurance that their medical review committee had decided that such medicine was not "medically necessary" and as such were refusing to cover it. I wrote back and politely requested that they review their decision as I would pursue this case and at the very least, cost them a hell of a lot more money than they were hoping to save. Amazingly, within 10 working days I got another letter stating that their medical review committee had reviewed the case and had decided that the prescription was "medically necessary" and that they would cover the prescription. I'm simplifying a little bit here but the point is to pick your battles, hopefully to correct an injustice rather than for fun.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. numbersix

    numbersix

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 5,695

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sorry you got stopped cuchulain. Based on the comments posted so far, this post looks like it could go downhill fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see it closed shortly.

    Also -good post Yaddy. There's good and bad in all walks of life.

    FWIW, Pitchfork has shown himself to be a solid member here, so I doubt he meant to attack all cops. The sad part is, myself and I am sure many others keep seeing a lot of what I consider to be "bad" press on cops. For ex., the other day someone on reddit posted a photo of a new tank their police dept rec'd (a tank!). Then for whatever reason I see frequent photos of police in riot gear, all dressed in black, faces covered, wearing helmets, etc.

    This seems to be very different from the image of the police I knew as a kid growing up.

    It's a worrisome trend. Even though I believe the average cop is a good guy out to protect, the image of our police is changing.

    "Be seeing you"


    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    You're right yaddy. Every profession that employs humans has to deal with human flaws. The only problem is that when a grocery store employee has an issue with ego and being a bully, people don't end up with a boot in their throat on the side of the road, because we'll stand up to a grocery store employee, however when they have a badge...
    And, having lived in many different states, I have never seen cops act like they do here. It's riduculous. And, I have a brother and an uncle who are policemen, just not in this state. So, I'm not just a cop basher.

    Now, since we have a law officer in the thread, what is going to happen in your area if someone refuses a search? Do you think the team that conducts the search will be more (or less) thorough with their search? Will they just smile and say, "You're free to go"? Just curious. Maybe my outlook is tainted by having lived here for so long and seeing what we see here, but I just can't imagine a police officer having someone refuse a search and getting sent on their way.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. layinpipe

    layinpipe

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 1,113

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yaddy, i totally agree with the fact that judging and pidgeonholing an entire group of any kind is ignorant and narrow minded. I've encountered and know personally great cops and have also encountered cops that are richards and have a stick shoved up their ass. I teach and train brazilian jiu jitsu and muay thai and there are naturally many current and former LEO's who train to gain a skill set that goes hand in hand with protecting themselves in their line of work. To say that all cops or LEO's are this or that is to not use the main thing that separates us from the rest of the organisms on this planet: the ability to use logic and reason. Too many people do not these days, and it seems we are devolving rather than evolving.

    Also, i don't care what anyone says, 3 mph is not speeding, that cop was being a straight up DICK. And don't even try to tell me "speeding is speeding". I have had numerous friends who are cops tell me that they(and their coworker cops) won't even bother pulling the average person over unless they are going at least 10 over. Obviously this is relative to the speed limit and excludes school zones and low speed limit areas. Also excludes swerving, no seatbelt, burnt out headlight/tail light and any other accompanying violation the driver may be demonstrating, hence the "average" driver. But 3 mph is RIDICULOUS. Sorry for your bad luck, cuchulain.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  31. rockford

    rockford

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 117

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I would have to assume that by refusing a search the officer would assume that you have something worth finding. I've seen what the Border guards can do to a car in 10 minutes and wouldn't want to foot that repair bill!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  32. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Peck: I'm disturbed by the fact that you seem to be saying you actually were speeding 7 times, but you'll did everything in your power to not take responsibility for that.

    The onus is on them to prove their case. I simply put them to the task of doing so as it is my right to do, and they couldn't. If I was convicted, I would take responsibility, but alas, I was not.

    Rockford, I wish the police were spending their time on more important matters than setting up speed traps as a revenue generation measure as well. That's part of the reason why I always fight my tickets - if enough people did so, they would see that there is little net revenue to be generated from it and they would move on to more socially worthwhile endeavours.

    Sable, you don't need to hire a lawyer to fight a ticket. Anyone can do it. It ain't that hard.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  33. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    And by the way, I have nothing against the police - my cousin is a Toronto police officer. I think most are honest and hardworking. I think some of them are actually quite frustrated themselves by being forced to be effectively be a tax collector. Yesterday I passed a trap coming off the highway where the speed limit drops quite dramatically - they had about 8 cars pulled over and lined up waiting to get tickets. They seem to be in the same location every week, catching people who don't notice the dramatic change in the limit. Seems rather ruthless to me, but I don't blame the cops - they are just doing what they are told to do.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  34. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Peck, my one and only time to get a ticket, I did try to fight it in court. I had heard that if the officer doesn't show up, that they throw it out. I took the gamble. Not only did they reschedule me for a day that the officer in specific was there, they made me wait till the very end of the day, when the officer came strolling in eating a taco.

    Then, after I tried to explain to the judge that there was no way an '89 Town and Country van was going to jump from 0 -60 mph in 100 feet, the prosecutor turned to the judge and asked that the word of a sworn law enforcement officer be taken over the word of the citizen. The gavel fell, and my fine went from $175 to 250 to include my court costs. They all yelled "Roll Tide," and I learned my lesson about this state.

    Unless one has the arguing skills and understanding of how courts work, I do not suggest they represent themself like I tried to do. I was a fool, and as I walked back to my van there were six police officers walking behind me pushing me down the hall and laughing at me, mocking my beat up van. I kept hearing, "word of the officer over the word of the citizen," ringing in my ears. Roll Tide!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  35. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yeesh cosmic, that is horrible. Trying to win at an actual trial can be tough. The tactic that works best for me is the pre-trial discovery process. I inundate the Crown with a multitude of discovery requests. The more information you seek the better. Rarely have they ever responded. Then at trial I just move for a dismissal on the basis that the Crown has not complied with its discovery obligations. I have never even gotten to the stage of an actual full blown trial at this point. I did have a very friendly chat with the prosecutor the last time - turns out we went to the same law school. I thanked her for her efforts and sent her chocolates. Kind of like an investment I guess.

    By the way, more than 50% of the time the officer does show up - they are paying him overtime to do so, so at time-and-a-half, who isn't going to show up. If he doesn't show up - which does happen if he has other comittments etc - then you can't lose, but that is not normal. I always assume they will show up and have my cross and game plan prepped, though as I said, have never actually had a full trial yet.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  36. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 25,967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    cuchulain, I think you succeeded in a major way simply not getting shot. Because a lot of perps are
    hotheads with firearms, the police are jumpy and hyper-vigilant. So if you can slow-walk the officer
    through the traffic stop and keep it all calm and even, that's the number one objective. If you can
    out-game them later in the court process, that's good, but you have to stay on this side of Jordan
    to do it. Keep your hands in sight and move slow. Also, you don't want them to think your Savenelli
    is a Glock, so don't keep it in your hand. Hands empty.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  37. numbersix

    numbersix

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 5,695

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I inundate the Crown with a multitude of discovery requests. The more information you seek the better. Rarely have they ever responded. Then at trial I just move for a dismissal on the basis that the Crown has not complied with its discovery obligations.

    Peck, if I were a Canadian, I'd want you for my lawyer!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  38. dhizzy

    dhizzy

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2011
    Posts: 702

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yaddy306,

    As a fellow officer, I appreciate your stance and thanks for speaking up. It does suck being labeled and bashed simply based upon being a police officer.

    To everyone else who thinks that cops are apparently, we'll lets see, fascists, dishonest, jack booted thugs. I'm not going to spend my Saturday afternoon defending every jab that has been sent our way but you guys are out of line man and you know it. I'm just a normal guy who chose that profession. And because I chose that profession I don't complain when people call me everything but a human because that's what I signed up for, right? On the street, maybe yes. I will put up with it there because that's part of the job. But here??????? No way man, this is where I come to have some peace. This is where I come to have some friendly conversation, make "friends", exchange stories and laughs. Incredibly disappointing.

    Numbersix,

    I will address your issue with the negative press. Good stuff that police do (if that does exist) isn't noteworthy. It doesn't sell. What sells? Police in riot gear, police getting military surplus vehicles, police "tasering", shooting, etc. if the news station ran a story about the last time I got out of my car in the projects and jumped rope with some kids it would be twisted in some negative way. I regularly do those things that I believe you were referring to remembering as a child. After all, I'm human.

    By the eternal! There is a man whose form should be cast in deathless bronze and the statue placed in every college in the land. It is not book-learning young men need, nor instruction about this and that, but a stiffening of the vertebrae which will cause them to be loyal to a trust, to act promptly, concentrate their energies; do the thing - "carry a message to Garcia!" Elbert Hubbard "A Message to Garcia" 1899
    Posted 5 years ago #
  39. rockford

    rockford

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 117

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Dhizzy,

    Well said and thank you for your efforts!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  40. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,086

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Dhizzy and Yaddy, I interact almost daily with police officers. I agree they're a few bad apples but the wildly vast majority of those I come in contact with are hard working professionals.

    The times I've been pulled over or had interactions with officers I'm polite and honest. It always pays off.

    If you're not smuggling why not consent to a search? I've consented three times to search. I've never been arrested or felt like the officer was over-reacting. They're doing their job and trying to get home........ just like us.

    As far as police traps go....... pay attention and slow down. The five times I've been pulled over haven't been due to speed traps and I travel extensively in AZ, UT, CA and NV. They've all been because I knowingly was speeding. I normally drive 6 miles over the speed limit and have never been pulled over for that. The times I've pushed it 10-15 over, well, I deserved to be stopped.

    BTW, I always pass the attitude test and it helps tremendously!

    Thank you gentleman for your service.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  41. dottiewarden

    dottiewarden

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 3,132

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This is a constant worry of mine cuchulain. Where I live there are plenty of ingnorant cops due to lack of proper training. I'm always afraid they are going to trump up dope charges just for carrying a baggy of tobacco and a small briar pipe.

    You were lucky.

    If any pólice officer can't tell the difference between tobacco and drugs, we all have something to worry about.

    As for speeding, most of do it, sometimes we get stopped.

    Dot
    Posted 5 years ago #
  42. cuchulain

    Flynn

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 224

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    To the LEO's who stopped by, thanks for piping up. I didn't realized how quickly this thread would go down hill, though I should have known that posting anything concerning law enforcement would've brought out the normal
    'jackbooted thugs" reaction.

    I'm a former volunteer firefighter, and I've had to interact with police officers in a professional capacity. By and large they're good people with a few bad apples, just like everyone else. I was just severely annoyed that I was searched over a pipe and wanted to grouse about it.

    Yaddy and Dhizzy, keep up the good work.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  43. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I have several buddies that are in law enforcement, my FFL was a Chicago cop, Local homicide cop, now working with a federal agency that deals with violent criminals as he is still a local cop. I have trained with a lot of LEO's at Gunsite, and in other places....they all agree on one thing:

    Never consent to a search,they have all known bad cops that given the opportunity will plant evidence, or go on a fishing expedition..

    If you're not smuggling why not consent to a search? I've consented three times to search. I've never been arrested or felt like the officer was over-reacting. They're doing their job and trying to get home........ just like us.

    What happens when your nephew that rode in your car lost some pharmaeceuticals that you don't have a prescription for, or he dropped some acid in the back seat?..Yeah, you are screwed...Now you have something to hide, thanks to your nephew.

    What if a neighbor that hates you decided to set you up, slim-jimmed your car, put a stolen gun under the seat, and as you pulled out of your driveway, called in a report of an erratic driver waving a gun...the cop pulls you over, you "have nothing to hide" so you consent to a search...(that actually happened to a guy that did five years, before the perp admitted to a relative what he did, and an LEO acquaintence investigated.

    My LEO buddies all agree that you should never engage in a conversation without a lawyer, although they will definitely try and get you to consent to a search, and freely engage in conversation "If you have nothing to hide", but they would never do the same, nor do they counsel family and loved ones to willingly consent.

    I have nothing but respect for the job that sworn law enforcement officers do, but they are far from perfect, and as with any occupation they make mistakes, and some are indeed "bad apples"... Notice that:

    "Anything you say, can and will be used against you"
    ...there is a reason that it isn't:
    "anything you say can be used to exonerate you."

    Professor James Duane esquire tells you why you shouldn't talk to the cops IIRC, they cover why you shouldn't consent to a search:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    And in the same seminar, a sworn LEO tells you why also:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

    The importance of this issue cannot be understated, getting it wrong can literally change your life for the worse.

    The founding fathers understood the seriousness of unreasonable searches, serious enough to codify it in the 4th amendment to the constitution...pissing away that right that blood was shed for because you "have nothing to hide" or because of ignorance, weakens your role as a citizen, and strengthens the possibility that them rights won't be there for your children and grandchildren.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  44. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The Brian Aitken story is another example of willing consent leads to a prison term, under federal law, he was transporting his firearms, he he even checked beforehand with NJ state police. He had "Nothing to hide" consented to a search, and bad judgment by the cops, crooked, judge, gun hating prosecutor, and Brian got Shanghaied..He was finally released by the governor for "time served", but he still has a felony rap from the travesty of justice.

    Had he not consented and relinquished his constitutional rights, he could have avoided the hellish nightmare.

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/15/brian-aitkens-mistake

    Posted 5 years ago #
  45. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,086

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Trailboss, I don't even know where to go with all of your assumptions/fears. We clearly live differently. Enough said.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  46. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Assumptions/fears?

    So the fourth amendment really was, and is a waste of time?
    Maybe the first, second, and third are also.

    What do you disagree with from the professor and police officers' assertions?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  47. dochudson

    dochudson

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 1,720

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    the simple answer is for you folks to slow down. I drive a lot of miles and always cruise at 5 to 7 over the speed limit which puts me cruising about 77 mph. I haven't had a ticket in years. The guys I worked with would regularly get nailed mostly because they weren't paying attention. either on their phones, texting or thought at 75 mph their radar detector was going to save them. none of the had ever been asked to have their car searched. if you have a relative dropping acid or Rx pills in the back seat you should give them a ride directly to the police station.

    some of you folks must live in a different world than me..

    Posted 5 years ago #
  48. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,086

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Slippery slopes. The amendments clearly matter. That's my point. I don't live in fear of a thuggish out of control police force.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  49. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    if you have a relative dropping acid or Rx pills in the back seat you should give them a ride directly to the police station.

    That was a hypothetical example of a former passenger's behavior (unbeknownst to the driver) affecting a current situation..."dropping" in that context wasn't referring to consumption, but losing ones drugs in another persons car.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  50. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't live in fear of a thuggish out of control police force.

    Nor do I, but exercising one's constitutional rights isn't done because of fear.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  51. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    That is an interesting story Trailboss. I read a bit more about it online. It sounds like he was clearly guilty of the crime, but you are right, he should never have consented to the search.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  52. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Federal firearms transportation laws are suppose to protect people from draconian bureaucrats and politicians at the local level, but in NJ, all bets are off.

    There are certain places I will never spend a dime, NJ is one of them.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  53. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 718

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    All I am saying is there is good and bad and I have been on both sides of the fence. Kudos to the good ones.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  54. edgreen

    edgreen

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 3,604

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I live in New Orleans, so, just for the record (permanent, online), I really think all policeman are honest and would never shoot an unarmed suspect, or after doing so, burn their body in their car and do not continue to this day acting with impunity to the law, rather than enforcing it. I'll probably get on the bad side of the grammar police with so many commas.

    Tobacco's a musician.And in a pipe delighteth;It descends in a close,Through the organ of the nose, With a relish that inviteth.
    Barten Holiday
    Posted 5 years ago #
  55. rangerearthpig

    rangerearthpig

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2014
    Posts: 903

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I'm not a fan of the whole "sovereign citizen" way of thinking (which is how this thread strikes me), so to keep myself from wandering away from the site over some ramblings in one thread, I'm just not going to read the rest of the thread. As a former LE Officer, I also am not a fan of police bashing.

    Hmm...let's see what cool pipe pics I can find, instead...8)

    RLTW!
    Posted 5 years ago #
  56. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    All I am saying is there is good and bad and I have been on both sides of the fence. Kudos to the good ones.

    That about sums it all up as far as I’m concerned. To blatantly assume that all police are dishonest is absurd and totally ignorant. That is akin to saying that all priests are pedophiles and that all politicians are morons.

    Well... let’s forget about my politician example as that was an extremely poor comparison and doesn’t make the cut by any stretch of the imagination!

    ~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. Mark Twain
    Posted 5 years ago #
  57. petes03

    petes03

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 5,455

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I got pulled over myself by a TN Trooper the other day. I was smoking a big ole Nording when he approached the truck, and I had my .357 mag sittin right next to me! He never questioned the gun or the pipe, but still wrote me a big fat ticket for out of date tags and no up to date insurance card, lol!
    Even after I threw out my cousins name (who is also a Trooper and his superior at that)!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  58. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I for one am not a cop basher, anarchist, or anything of the sort, there are great people in law enforcement that I hold in high regard. They are fellow citizens however, and unless they posess a warrant, they have no more right than my fellow citizen neighbor to search my car.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  59. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    out of date tags and no up to date insurance card...

    Renegade!

    Is the insurance card a fix-it ticket?
    I reckon that out of date tags are on you though...

    When concealed carrying in Arizona, we aren't required to declare that we are carrying, regardless, I have always let them know and they genuinely appreciated it.
    The last time that I did though, a Mesa cop secured my weapon (as he is allowed to do during the duration of the stop), and emptied all my mags while he ran a check on the gun. He left my rounds in a pile on the back seat instructing me to not touch the weapon until he was out of sight. My son in law, who is a major in the DOC, also supplied his ID, so the cop had to know that:
    A CCW'er that declared his weapon with a sworn LEO riding shotgun posed no threat.

    As he drove out of sight, I watched two shady looking individuals in the convenience store parking lot watching two law abiding citizens get disarmed, and a gun for the taking if they had one of their own.

    I am not so sure I am going to declare unless asked in the future.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  60. smeigs

    smeigs

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2012
    Posts: 1,097

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    sorry man. What a douche.

    “A pipe in the mouth makes it clear that there has been no mistake–you are undoubtedly a man.”
    Posted 5 years ago #
  61. allan

    allan

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,539

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    @trailboss

    I have a full concealed carry in NYC, and one of my business associates mentioned that there is a new range in NJ that is quite beautiful and elegant and suggested that we go shooting there. He is a NRA instructor, and I mentioned that NJ laws are quite draconian.

    He claimed that if I travel to NJ, all I have to do is keep it unloaded in a locked box and everything will be fine.

    Now, I'm not so sure.

    Maybe its not worth it.

    Allan
    Posted 5 years ago #
  62. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's odd that when its mentioned that there are bad cops out there, that someone assumes that that we are jabbing at all cops. I think I had stated that there are cops in the family, :::cough cough::: my brother and uncle, and my girlfriend has two brothers that are police officers. But, anyways... unless you are small hick town Alabama cops, I don't think I said anything about either of the law enforcement officers on this thread. Its a tough job. I would want to do it.

    But, when someone in a regular job goes bad, lets say an ego driven bully of a grocery store clerk. I can stand up to him. I would have no fear in going to his boss, or defending myself if he came at me. However, when a cop has these same character flaws... well, a whole community has to suffer. We can't just stand up to a cop. Well, I guess trailboss can, lol. I'd prefer to just suffer the abuse of power and get back to my day.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  63. ithelouniverse

    ithelouniverse

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 531

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Well, Cosmic just hit the nail directly on the head!

    And unfortunately, the good cops usually tolerate the others. When I was still body building I trained at the same gym the local police use. Even if only one was acting up, the other three or four weren't making any attempt to correct the behavior. The same cop would tell stories daily of roughing up the homeless and purposely prolonging medical attention for the recently arrested and none of the other cops, who mind you WERE nice guys, ever chastised him.

    That leads to cosmics point. A complaint against the checkout boy at the store counter will lead to discipline, more than one will lead to a firing. Cops tend to circle the wagons and dig in their heels when complaints flow in...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  64. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The friend of mine that I referenced earlier, started out as a Chicago cop after his military stint. He didn't give me any details about what he saw while there, but the rank corruption and abuses of power led him to admit that when the Scott Peterson drama played out: "That attitude of being above the law isn't unusual in that department, I have to look at myself in the mirror, that is in large part why I ended up in Arizona".
    The police department he is now serving in, is as different as can be...there have been a few issues of rogue officers, but they had to face the consequences of their actions, in Chicago things would have been quite different.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  65. salmonfisher

    salmonfisher

    Senior Member
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 350

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    WOW!

    Quite the interesting thread.

    This has struck a chord with me big time.

    My two cents FWIW?

    Police Officers are doing one hell of a job!

    Never give permission for a search, anything could be in your vehicle without your knowledge.

    Getting caught speeding, when you know you were speeding and then fighting it in hopes it will be tossed, is a shamefull waste of tax payers money! No ifs and or buts. Buying a radar to get warning if traps while illegal, is far better then wasting tax $. Speed limits are posted because those rates are deemed safe for that stretch of highway. Need to get there earlier, then leave earlier.

    Seriously folks, both our countries are going to hell in a hand basket over wastes like this. Let's leave the officers and the courts to more important things. Suck it up and admit you were wrong for whatever you did. Our governments, our law courts, our Heath care and everything would start to run a whole lot more effeciently.

    End of Rant

    Posted 5 years ago #
  66. metarzan

    metarzan

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 602

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    So glad you were proven innocent.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  67. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Getting caught speeding, when you know you were speeding and then fighting it in hopes it will be tossed, is a shamefull waste of tax payers money! No ifs and or buts.

    Complete nonsense. The waste of taxpayers money is paying for these revenue generating speed traps to begin with. If everyone fought them, they would soon grind to a halt. They expect that people will just pay their "tax" ticket and move on. Exercise your rights - fight back.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  68. brian64

    brian64

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 5,198

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Great pics Six...they paint a thousand words. The militarization of the police is the system’s end-run around Posse Comitatus.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 5 years ago #
  69. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    By the way, one other tip. This applies in Canada but I suspect that it is equally applicable in most US states. If you are thinking about just pleading guilty and paying the fine (I can't even fathom this, but to each his own), you should change your auto insurance company immediately before you do. The government reports speeding fines to the insurance companies, but they do this based on the last information they have as to the identity of your insurance company, and you provide this information to the government when you renew your plates (every year or two years, depending on the circumstances). By changing your insurance company before you assessed the fine, the Government will send the information about your conviction to your old insurance company not your new one. As a result, the new company will never know and your record will remain clean.

    Also, if you are going to fight your ticket, you should file a motion for discovery. I typically request the following information:

    · both sides of the officer's copy of the ticket
    · the make, model, and serial number of the radar unit, and its owner's manual
    · the officer's training record specific to the said radar unit
    · the calibration record and repair history of the said radar unit
    · the records of any calibration equipment such as tuning forks
    · the officer's log on the alleged offence day, including all tickets he had written on that day, and a copy of any other notes of the officer on that day.

    So far, I have been largely ignored on these requests, which makes it pretty easy to quash the ticket.

    Remember, you are innocent until proven guilty, and if they can't discharge their burden of proving you guilty, then you were never guilty of speeding in the first place.

    What a great thread. There is nothing I like more than a good adversarial contest - really gets me excited.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  70. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 3,311

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I am with you Peck, at the heart of our laws, you are innocemt until proven guilty, the state bears the burden of proving guilt. When it is the other way around, you know that you are innocent, the prosecutor and the state really don't give a damn about your innocence...all the prosecutor cares about is his conviction rate, (generally speaking).

    Not long ago, I represented myself in Tempe traffic court, as I had a 53' trailer delivering to ASU campus, I had to drive a ways to find room enough to turn around, and headed down a street that didn't have any "No truck" signage at either end of my intended route. In the middle of that stretch of road between the two major thorofares was a no truck sign in front of some seedy apartment complexes. There was no way I could turn off that route as the street to turn on was lined with cars on both sides, I would have had to drag my trailer over parked cars.

    You guessed it, a police suburban roars out of the apartment complex, I explain my case, he doesn't want to hear it..."I will see you in court" he says.

    I show up in court, after we both present our case, the judge sides with the cop that has never driven a truck.."Based on what officer____ said, and his twenty plus years of traffic enforcement, I have to go with him" he says.
    I then told the judge that I have driven rigs for thirty five years, and have placed nationally in safety and truck roadeos...he didn't want to hear any of it.
    The only thing that didn't surprise is that the corrupt judge didn't say "suppers waitin at home and I gotta get to it...want to join me officer____?

    I was pretty pissed...$350.00 less in my pocket and points on my record.

    In the past, I was 5 for 5 fighting tickets that I didn't deserve over my career, the few that I had earned, I paid my fine and took the points....after this last case, I will fight every ticket regardless.

    Thanks for the tips,Peck.

    Posted 5 years ago #

Reply »

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   craig61a, odobenus, disinformatique, condorlover1, monkeylyf