Watch Out or Watch on? Pt 2.

[Grangerous]

Pardon Our Interruption...

Is a million dollar Patek Phillipe worth a million?

Yes, absolutely, if you have a net worth of over 100 million dollars.

Xxxxx

28,420 centi-millionaires

These affluent individuals are typically the founders of large multi-national companies or the heirs to vast family fortunes. There are only 28,420 centi-millionaires in the world (as at June 2023), making this a very elite club.

Xxxxx

And it’s twice as cheap as a Patek Phillipe minute repeater, for the billionaires.

Patek Philippe 6301P-001 Grande and Petite Sonnerie Platinum Black Enamel Dial | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Patek Philippe 6301P-001 Grande and Petite Sonnerie Platinum Black Enamel Dial at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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Xxxxx

There are more than 2600 billionaires globally. Over a quarter of the world's billionaires live in the United States. While the number of billionaires fell amid the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, the figure rebounded and grew again in 2021, falling somewhat by 2023.

Xxxxx

We live in a world where you can buy an excellent quality tribute to a million dollar watch for less than seventy five dollars.

Pardon Our Interruption...

Wrist watches are mostly jewelry for men.

Your phone keeps atomic time.

There’s a saying… “A man’s watch is his car when he’s not in it.”

I’ve always smiled at this and found it to be interestingly true. Each item reflects the personality of its owner.

My wife calls one Doctor friend of mine a “Lounge Lizzard”. He often wears a garish Diamond Rolex and recently added an LC500 in Red to his stable of Lamborghini and LandRovers.

Another friend picked up his LC500 in silver. He wears Patek.

Me? I smoke burley scraps.

 

[ssjones]

For a 3-hand plus date watch, the ETA 2892A2 is a very good movement, stop seconds, bi-directional winding, respectable power reserve. Tested, easy to repair. Many watches have had it and many In House movements of very expensive watches are that caliber with minimal changes.
Greetings.

It looks like the movement is a SW330, I think a copy of the 2892. At $3500, you have a many better choices (near Tudor Black Bay pricing).

If you like the look, the Forstner A-12 hits the mark, quartz movement and under $500.

Forstner A-12

The Story The Forstner A-12 brings back a long-lost watch style that was once a critical player in U.S. spy plane (and early NASA) programs, and which holds a very special place in Forstner's history. In the mid-twentieth century, the Bulova Accutron Astronaut was famously supplied to CIA test...

forstnerbands.com

 

[Alejo R.]

It looks like the movement is a SW330, I think a copy of the 2892. At $3500, you have a many better choices (near Tudor Black Bay pricing).

If you like the look, the Forstner A-12 hits the mark, quartz movement and under $500.

Forstner A-12

The Story The Forstner A-12 brings back a long-lost watch style that was once a critical player in U.S. spy plane (and early NASA) programs, and which holds a very special place in Forstner's history. In the mid-twentieth century, the Bulova Accutron Astronaut was famously supplied to CIA test...

forstnerbands.com

I agree that you can get better watches for that price. But at least to me, if the caliber is Eta, it doesn't seem to me that it downgrades the watch.

 

[Briar Lee]

For a 3-hand plus date watch, the ETA 2892A2 is a very good movement, stop seconds, bi-directional winding, respectable power reserve. Tested, easy to repair. Many watches have had it and many In House movements of very expensive watches are that caliber with minimal changes.
Greetings.

Here’s a good article on “in house” movements.

Feature: The Truth About In-House Movements

The Watch Magazine takes a closer look at in-house movements from TAG Heuer, Patek Philippe and Longines. Read this article online now.

www.watchfinder.com

My father died in 1971 and he had one good watch, a 1958 Hamilton Thin-O-Matic, gold filled. It cost a hundred dollars new. He only wore it on Sunday mornings and evenings and Wednesday evenings for church, and when he attended the school board meetings, and other dress up occasions.

When I first had it serviced a few years later I was disappointed to discover it had a Swiss movement, not a Hamilton.


Not that it really mattered at all. His watch is as old as I am and runs perfectly.

My $140 Orient Bambino is a dead ringer for my father’s Hamilton, which in turn was nearly a fifties Omega pie pan Constellation. Except my Orient has an Orient movement, case and strap.

 

[Pipeoff]

I just wish they could make a watch with an accurate blood pressure, and a way for someone else to track me. I know, I know, the only demand for someone else to track them would be us old people, on the verge of Alzheimer and dementia. But, I am certain that I could enjoy being lost more if I knew that someone could come and get me by dinner time. But, a watch that does it would be so much less evasive than getting chipped.

Sounds good but still looks like ankle cuff worn by sex offerder.

 

[Grangerous]

Contemplating some strap changes.

Always has been an easy way to refresh a watch. None of the pictured 20mm straps are the appropriate size for either watch pictured.

But I’m now seeing that a black, sailcloth strap is the way to go for this Omega Seamaster 300 Heritage Coaxial.

Does anyone prefer straps to bracelets? I find certain pieces belong on a bracelet while others do really shine on straps.

In the end it’s all personal preference.

 

[mikethompson]

anyone prefer straps to bracelets?

I think it depends on the watch. Some just look better with a metal bracelet, some with leather.

 

[Briar Lee]

Today my $18 pocket watch arrived from China, postpaid. It’s a beautful bauble that has a skeletonized and decorated Standard Chinese movement. There’s a Hunter case and chain with it, too.





I can see and count 17 jewels, there’s a regulator, and I can see the balance spin six beats a second, there’s a shock protection system, and this is a fully jeweled, usable, durable, accurate watch rated at +/- 30 seconds a day that ought to beat that in half, or better (if they oiled mine. ) it could be repaired or serviced, but of course it won’t be.

The Chinese have produced hundreds of millions of these.



What fascinates me about watches, is that the engineers and designers at Patek Phillipe must make tooling to produce each and every part my Chinese watch uses, and so did the makers of the Waltham 1857 watch that started it all.

The only major innovations since 1857 are really refinements. A co axial escapement replaced a good lever escapement. Various new metals have replaced older metals that worked. There’s shock protection now, and new watches wind with a rotor or stem instead of a key.

Every time I see any mechanical watch I’m reminded of my dear old friend Jack, who invented the orange balls you see on power lines, in 1969. Before that Jack said a pilot who flew too low stood no chance of avoiding a power wire until it was too late.

We used to sit in Jack’s shop and argue and discuss the merits of different car engines.

Jack would pull on his Dutch Masters President (he’d accept any better cigar offered) and say when Messerschmitts and Spitfires dueled over the Tower of Big Ben they just about perfected the piston engine and they discovered there isn’t much way to improve on the concept of a crank shaft.

To paraphrase Jack, how do you improve on the concept of a balance wheel?

Given the same modern metals, the manufacturers of watches can only improve a watch by precision manufacturing methods.

When Jack munched his Dutch Masters he supervised about a dozen employees using fiberglass chopper guns to produce what his son now watches a vacuum molding machine make. Jack was alive when the vacuum molding machine was installed.

He’d personally made ten blueprinted perfect balls for the mould. Each one since is as perfect.

 

[Alejo R.]

Orient is to Seiko what Tudor is to Rolex.

Orient is owned by Seiko. As Seiko prices reach the next higher tier, Orient will fill that backspace with a business model that mirrors Rolex / Tudor.

Rolex is moving into ultra high end luxury and is leaving a void in the $3000 to $5000 USC watch tier. Tudor will now fill that segment. Already 2024 Tudor prices are creeping up to $4000 to $6000.

You’ve alluded to Omega. You are correct in that Omega is following Rolex albeit not as high and now occupies the $5000 to $8000 tier, leaving a void to be soon filled by Tudor.

Other brands will all follow the upward trend. Orient will become what Seiko was. Affordable quality watches.

Seiko Watch Corp belongs to a corporation called Seiko Group Corporation. Orient Watch co. is a company that belongs to Seiko Epson Corp. Seiko Group and Seiko Epson are related but different companies. Therefore to say that the Seiko watch company owns the Orient watch company is incorrect since they are two business divisions of two different companies.
Greetings

 

[Briar Lee]

Seiko Watch Corp belongs to a corporation called Seiko Group Corporation. Orient Watch co. is a company that belongs to Seiko Epson Corp. Seiko Group and Seiko Epson are related but different companies. Therefore to say that the Seiko watch company owns the Orient watch company is incorrect since they are two business divisions of two different companies.
Greetings

All true. The Orient watches I favor are designed, produced, cased, timed and regulated by Orient using an all Orient in house movement that’s made entirely in Japan.

If I look close my Orients read

Japan Mvt.

If they could say Made in Japan they would say it.

The dials might be contracted, or the case, or the hands.

They might be assembled outside Japan.

The designs of a Citizen, Seiko or Orient automatic watch are very nearly the same, the Citizen doesn’t use a bi directional winder rotor, or at least didn’t used to, but the movements are more siblings, than cousins.

One distinction an Orient watch has is the movement only is found in an Orient watch. This is what once upon a time made Hamilton, Waltham and Elgin considered the best factory watches on earth, that were copied by the Swiss.

Vintage "Swiss Fake" Watches - Renaissance Watch Repair

Swiss-fake watches. Information on Swiss watches made to imitate American railroad-grade pocket watches

www.pocketwatchrepair.com

Let’s say Orient develops a new laser timer, to regulate their movements.

Or a new machine to drill a hole more consistently.

They keep that technology in house.

 

[cranseiron]

I used to love wrist watches, but gave them up, as someone else mentioned, they started to annoy me. Especially, in hot humid summer. Above, is an 1890s Swiss Domain Roman key wind, a early 1900s Elgin and (who knew!) a 1970s Timex pocket watch.

 

[Briar Lee]

Tonight my wife and I are going to spend sixty bucks with tip to eat out at a tavern.

We don’t need to do that. We could eat at home for a fraction of that, or do a drive through for half or less.

But there wouldn’t be the ambiance of that tavern that’s been there for more than a century. My fish and chips, the menu says, has been on the menus since 1946.

There is real, unquestioned, additional value added to a watch because it was made by an old name brand maker, the same as there is eating out in an established restaurant.



Six years ago I paid $30 for a discontinued style of $40 Bulova Caravelle New York watch, that has a Citizen chronometer (1/1 second chrono) movement and I changed the battery last night myself. I had to buy a $20 watch case back press and a $7 case back remover to put in a dollar battery.



No other luxury product you do not need, but want, is as cheap as a good new watch.

Unless maybe a good new pipe.

 

[Briar Lee]

One joy of having a watch addiction is getting to buy new tools to work on your watches.



If you gave me a hundred of those I’d be stuck with them, because I’d have a hard time shipping them for sixteen bucks.

This is without doubt a copy of a much more expensive (and better) watch maker press, but it works like magic.

If your case back is flimsy it snaps on with your thumbs.

If it’s a good, sturdy one with a gasket this tool is needed.

 

[gubbyduffer]

Wearing my soviet era Raketa Big Zero this evening. Not seen much wrist time recently. I love the distortion you get from acrylic crystal. Mineral and sapphire are just not the same.

 

[Briar Lee]

This evening my pocket jewelry is a 1921 Hamilton 974.




On my wrist there’s a $20 Chinese “bridge watch” that keeps nearly as good time as the Hamilton. Both have 17 jewels, the quality of the Hamilton is incredibly higher, of course.



To minimize the parts in the single bridge watch, the designers omitted a second hand and it only sets forward with a cover over the setting knob. Instead of manual wind there’s a self winding rotor.

But somehow they fully jeweled this watch, just amazing. Wonder if there’s a high end Swiss watch they copied?

 

[Grangerous]

Watches and Wonders is fast approaching. April 9th!

Let’s see what’s new in 2024

 

[Briar Lee]

Watches and Wonders is fast approaching. April 9th!

Let’s see what’s new in 2024

• STORE

Watches and Wonders Announce Geneva 2024 Dates and Participating Brands​

Taking place from April 9 -15, 2024.​

Watches And Wonders
WatchesOct 1, 2023
7.2K0
Watches and Wonders has officially announced its dates for next year’s Geneva edition, as well as the list of exhibiting Maisons.
The annual trade show will take place between April 9 to 15 and will feature an enhanced program at the Salon, as well as within the city. From April 13 to 15, the event will be open to the public, offering one whole day more than its 2023 edition — a decision that was made to put even more emphasis on improving visitors’ experience.

A total of 55 watch brands have confirmed to participate in the upcoming Geneva tradeshow, with usual prestigious contenders such as Rolex, Patek Philippe, Parmigiani Fleurier, and IWC making their return to showcase their latest horological offerings. In addition, the trade show will also welcome six new brands that are taking part for the first time.
Take a look at the full list of exhibiting brands below:

A. Lange & Söhne
Alpina Watches
Angelus
Arnold & Son
Baume & Mercier
Beauregard
Bell & Ross
Bremont
Cartie
Chanel
Charles Zuber
Charriol
Chopard
Chronoswiss
Cyrus Genève
Czapek & Cie
Eberhard & Co.
Ferdinand Berthoud
Frederique Constant
Gerald Charles
Grand Seiko
Grönefeld
H. Moser & Cie.
Hautlence
Hermès
Hublot
Hysek
IWC Schaffhausen
Jaeger-Lecoultre
Laurent Ferrier
Louis Moine
Montblanc
Nomos Glashütte
Norqain
Oris
Panerai
Parmigiani Fleurier
Patek Philippe
Pequignet
Piaget
Raymond Weil
Rebellion Timepieces
Ressence
Roger Dubuis
Rolex
Rudis Sylva
Speake-Marin
TAG Heuer
Trilobe
Tudor
U-Boat
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin
Van Cleef & Arpels
Zenith

 

[ssjones]

The DC Watch show was last weekend, I had too much going on to make the trip down.

Washington DC Watch Show | District Time

Join us for District Time 2024! This free, public watch fair will take place Saturday, March 4 and Sunday, March 5 at the District Architecture Center, 421 7th Street NW, Washington, D.C.

www.dcwatchshow.com

 

[Briar Lee]

One of the joys of a watch acquisition disorder is everyone can afford to have one.

Thanks to cut throat competition, for all the fifty years I’ve wanted a hundred dollar grade watch they still are priced about a hundred dollars, although the quality of a hundred dollar watch is likely higher today. This has a Seiko NH35A automatic movement, solid link bracelet, waterproof to 20 bar, and is an excellent timekeeper. If you want more accuracy the exact same watch in quartz is $30 less.



So once you have one heirloom quality watch you can save up for better ones.

 

[Grangerous]

One of the joys of a watch acquisition disorder is everyone can afford to have one.

Thanks to cut throat competition, for all the fifty years I’ve wanted a hundred dollar grade watch they still are priced about a hundred dollars, although the quality of a hundred dollar watch is likely higher today. This has a Seiko NH35A automatic movement, solid link bracelet, waterproof to 20 bar, and is an excellent timekeeper. If you want more accuracy the exact same watch in quartz is $30 less.

View attachment 295411

So once you have one heirloom quality watch you can save up for better ones.


View attachment 295419

View attachment 295414View attachment 295415

I am so impressed with TUDOR that I now own three. Two Black Bay 58’s and One PELAGOS 39

You can compare each to the Rolex 14060 SUB (top left) beside the BB58 Blue and BB58 Black.

The PELAGOS 39 is (bottom right) is Titanium and humming along at +4 SPD.

The most accurate are the SUB and the BB58 (on the brown leather strap). Each are +1 SPD.

The OMEGA is METAS and gives +5. Not impressed.

For some reason, the BB58 Blue is -8 SPD. I haven’t taken that watch off of my wrist this week. It’s a beautiful watch. That gray/blue dial changes from deep Navy in subdued lighting to a real summer dazzler outdoors. It’s becoming a favorite fast. ( even if running slow)

ROLEX makes changes ever so slowly. Rolex never looks backwards. Rolex of today are large 41- 42mm shiny jewelry. The Tool Watches are being made by TUDOR.

So if you enjoy the dimensions of the Rolex of old, look to TUDOR!