Watch Out or Watch on? Pt 2.

[Briar Lee]

Where does Hamilton fit on the Swatch Family hierarchy?

Swatch is on the bottom.

Then Tissot.

And then Hamilton.

And on up with Longines

But starting with Omega, the watch has an Omega in house movement, unique to Omega, built by ETA.

Below Omega and a Swiss watch has an ETA movement, either a complete one from ETA or based on ETA parts.

All this above is based on the movement being mechanical.

If it’s a Swiss quartz it’s nearly sure to have a Swiss Rhoda movement.

$250 Quartz Tissot



Compare with the Japanese

All three big brands, Citizen, Seiko, and Orient, are independent but under the umbrella ownership of the same holding company.

At the top is the Grand Seiko. One of the finest watches on earth, movement in house made in Japan, starts at about four grand and goes to tens of thousands.

Below that, Orient Star makes only mechanical watches with in house made in Japan movements unique to Orient Star.

The Orient Star movement is a fancier version of the regular Orient, also an in house movement that only goes in an Orient, no sales to other watch companies.

$165 Orient Ray II with in house automatic Orient movement



Competition in automatic watches is brutal, for a gadget that’s really not changed since my $18 Indian refurb Citizen to any meaningful degree.

If you’d like a timepiece only, no frills, then an Invicta (based in Florida, USA) has the watch case style you like with an NH35 Seiko inside for about a hundred dollars. Odds are it will keep time with any Tissot or Hamilton or Longine and it will run ten or twenty years continuously without service, and a replacement movement is forty bucks.

There are dozens of micro brands out there making watches today, mostly using that NH35 movement.

Below that the Chinese will sell you outstandingly good watches.

It’s a jungle out there.

 

[Alejo R.]

Swatch is on the bottom.

Then Tissot.

And then Hamilton.

And on up with Longines

But starting with Omega, the watch has an Omega in house movement, unique to Omega, built by ETA.

Below Omega and a Swiss watch has an ETA movement, either a complete one from ETA or based on ETA parts.

All this above is based on the movement being mechanical.

If it’s a Swiss quartz it’s nearly sure to have a Swiss Rhoda movement.

Compare with the Japanese

All three big brands, Citizen, Seiko, and Orient, are independent but under the umbrella ownership of the same holding company.

At the top is the Grand Seiko. One of the finest watches on earth, movement in house made in Japan, starts at about four grand and goes to tens of thousands.

Below that, Orient Star makes only mechanical watches with in house made in Japan movements unique to Orieny Star.

The Orient Star movement is a fancier version of the regular Orient, also an in house movement that only goes in an Orient, no sales to other watch companies.

Competition in automatic watches is brutal, for a gadget that’s really not changed since my $18 Indian refurb Citizen to any meaningful degree.

If you’d like a timepiece only, no frills, then an Invicta (based in Florida, USA) has the watch case style you like with an NH35 Seiko inside for about a hundred dollars.

Below that the Chinese will sell you outstandingly good watches.

It’s a jungle out there.

FLIK Flak is in the the bottom.
Citizen has nothing to do with Seiko. Seiko and Orient belong to Epson, but are independent of each other. Regarding the issue of in-house movements, until around 2000 when Rolex developed its first automatic chronograph and abandoned the El Primero calibers, no one gave a damn whether a watch had an in-house caliber or not.

 

[Alejo R.]

FLIK Flak is in the the bottom.
Citizen has nothing to do with Seiko. Seiko and Orient belong to Epson, but are independent of each other. Regarding the issue of in-house movements, until around 2000 when Rolex developed its first automatic chronograph and abandoned the El Primero calibers, no one gave a damn whether a watch had an in-house caliber or not.

When said caliber is movement

 

[Briar Lee]

FLIK Flak is in the the bottom.
Citizen has nothing to do with Seiko. Seiko and Orient belong to Epson, but are independent of each other. Regarding the issue of in-house movements, until around 2000 when Rolex developed its first automatic chronograph and abandoned the El Primero calibers, no one gave a damn whether a watch had an in-house caliber or not.

In checked and I’d been repeating something I’d heard for years, they were independent but all under the same holding company. True of Seiko and Orient but Citizen is a seperate maker.

But take for example the Swiss ETA 2824. The only thing on that movement new was a rotor winder. When compared with a Citizen, Seiko, or Orient movement there’s not a lot of ways to make a time counter work.

Each one has extra jewels over the 15 they must have.

Until the Powerhouse 80 variant the Swiss movement beat 8 times a second. Now they all beat six times a second.

The railroad watches kept time to a second or two a day using five beats a second.

And a cheap quartz movement beats them all for timekeeping.


A wristwatch has a bracelet or strap, a case, and a movement.

If gold or precious metals aren’t used making the case and bracelet becomes a chase to make the same thing cheaper to charge less or a tiny bit better to gain prestige.

Movement polishing and precision is about the only variable.

 

[Searock Fan]

This thread is interesting in that it shows that a lot of us pipe smokers seem to like this style of watch. I've had an Omega Seamaster, quartz for over 30 years and it still looks and keeps time like a new watch. (pictures are from the net)



And back in the 80s I traded a Dunhill dealer a couple of old pipes for this Dunhill quartz. Nice watch in stainless and gold. I only wear it occasionally when I get dress up.

 

[Grangerous]

If I had to say what is the entry level of a truly fine watch, of heirloom quality, my nod goes to the Orient.

Orient is to Seiko what Tudor is to Rolex.

Orient is owned by Seiko. As Seiko prices reach the next higher tier, Orient will fill that backspace with a business model that mirrors Rolex / Tudor.

Rolex is moving into ultra high end luxury and is leaving a void in the $3000 to $5000 USC watch tier. Tudor will now fill that segment. Already 2024 Tudor prices are creeping up to $4000 to $6000.

You’ve alluded to Omega. You are correct in that Omega is following Rolex albeit not as high and now occupies the $5000 to $8000 tier, leaving a void to be soon filled by Tudor.

Other brands will all follow the upward trend. Orient will become what Seiko was. Affordable quality watches.

 

[Grangerous]

Longines slots nicely just below Omega, in the $2500-$3000 range, part of the Swatch family

Longines has a fascinating history. However, as a part of the Swatch Group, they will be kept from competing with higher tier Swatch group brands. Truly a shame when you know the history of a brand like Longines whom was producing dual time zone complications before Rolex was even conceived.

 

[Briar Lee]

Longines has a fascinating history. However, as a part of the Swatch Group, they will be kept from competing with higher tier Swatch group brands. Truly a shame when you know the history of a brand like Longines whom was producing dual time zone complications before Rolex was even conceived.

My mother owned a Longines watch, she wore to church. If still runs, and is so small my wife and daughter wouldn’t begin to wear it.

Wrist watches are primarily for men.

I bought a 1960 Longines automatic from an old man who asked $40 for it, and spent another fifty or so (then) to have it serviced.

I also bought a Longines Hi Beat, my watchmaker serviced and said would need annual inspections if I wore it regularly.

The watch that’s my regular daily wear item for a year now has been this $350 (street price) Orient Star Classic Gen 2.


List price




If my watchmaker hadn’t retired I’d have tried getting him to regulate it, but it gains exactly 14 seconds every day, on the wrist. He just loved consistently fast watches.

If I set it on Saturday night or Sunday morning it’s still not two minutes fast a week.

He used to claim the majority of new automatics run about one or two minutes fast a week, and the reason was they’d likely never be serviced and it gave allowance for eventual wear.

What he said about Swatch group and the other Swiss makers isn’t fit to print here, and it was over getting parts.

In a little case, he offered the better grade of Seiko watches, most quartz.

 

[ssjones]

used to claim the majority of new automatics run about one or two minutes fast a week, and the reason was they’d likely never be serviced and it gave allowance for eventual wear.

What he said about Swatch group and the other Swiss makers isn’t fit to print here, and it was over getting parts.

Sounds about right on fast automatic.

My local guy is an authorized Longines/Omega service center, so he doesn't have any issues getting parts from Swatch. The bezel on my Hydroconquest inner lock ring broke, so the bezel no longer clicked. I dropped it off to him on a Monday, the bezel ring part was delivered on Wednesday and I picked it up at end of the day, $45 for the repair. I was pleased with that, I would have spend more on postage, sending the watch somewhere insured for the repair and it would have been gone for weeks.

 

[mikethompson]

You've said it before Al, but you are lucky that you have such a great service option close by.

 

[Grangerous]

Swatch is on the bottom.

Then Tissot.

And then Hamilton.

And on up with Longines

But starting with Omega, the watch has an Omega in house movement, unique to Omega, built by ETA.

Below Omega and a Swiss watch has an ETA movement, either a complete one from ETA or based on ETA parts.

All this above is based on the movement being mechanical.

If it’s a Swiss quartz it’s nearly sure to have a Swiss Rhoda movement.

$250 Quartz Tissot

View attachment 293194

Compare with the Japanese

All three big brands, Citizen, Seiko, and Orient, are independent but under the umbrella ownership of the same holding company.

At the top is the Grand Seiko. One of the finest watches on earth, movement in house made in Japan, starts at about four grand and goes to tens of thousands.

Below that, Orient Star makes only mechanical watches with in house made in Japan movements unique to Orient Star.

The Orient Star movement is a fancier version of the regular Orient, also an in house movement that only goes in an Orient, no sales to other watch companies.

$165 Orient Ray II with in house automatic Orient movement

View attachment 293197

Competition in automatic watches is brutal, for a gadget that’s really not changed since my $18 Indian refurb Citizen to any meaningful degree.

If you’d like a timepiece only, no frills, then an Invicta (based in Florida, USA) has the watch case style you like with an NH35 Seiko inside for about a hundred dollars. Odds are it will keep time with any Tissot or Hamilton or Longine and it will run ten or twenty years continuously without service, and a replacement movement is forty bucks.

There are dozens of micro brands out there making watches today, mostly using that NH35 movement.

Below that the Chinese will sell you outstandingly good watches.

It’s a jungle out there.

I own a recent example Tissot Quartz. It’s my mechanical watch “regulator”. I set my watches by its second hand.

Here pictures with two Seikos.

Is dimensions are similar to a 14060. It’s a swimmable, do everything watch on a comfortable rubber strap. As you’ve said, a beautiful time piece less than $300.

 

[Flatfish]

I've got my grandfathers pocket watch. It has a new glass, new workings, new face. It has even changed make. So I doubt my grandfather would recognise it as his old one if he was still alive.
It is accurate to plus or minus about 15 minutes every 12 hours.
But it ticks really loudly which annoys my dear wife. I like ticking.

 

[Briar Lee]

Humansville had a noon whistle on the water tower, loud enough to be heard for miles and miles. You’d see men check their Westclox Scotty “ dollar “watches or Timex wristwatches at the cafes by it.

My parents also had a Westclox alarm clock.


Before quartz everyday time pieces were disposable.

And as I remember it if they ran slow they got replaced. Even then the ideal was a watch or clock that never “lost time”.

I splurged $18.50 and ordered this Chinese mechanical watch that’s a skeletonized copy of an ETA 6497/8.

It should be miles above any “dollar” watch or pin lever Timex ever made as a time keeper. And while and so long as they worked the cheap American watches kept satisfactory time.

 

[Peter Peachfuzz]

I'm don't mean to lower this threads standard but what's the general consensus on these?

 

[Briar Lee]

I'm don't mean to lower this threads standard but what's the general consensus on these?

Bulova is owned by Citizen.

That one reads Swiss Made which makes it a higher end Bulova.


If it’s an original Astronaut with tuning fork movement it’s as valuable as a new lower end Swiss luxury brand watch today.

In-Depth: Bulova's Accutron Astronaut – The Watch Chosen By The CIA For Pilots Of The Fastest Plane Ever Made - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/bulovas-accutron-astronaut-the-watch-chosen-by-the-cia-for-pilots-of-the-fastest-plane-ever-made

Here’s why Bulova watches are not so valuable as maybe they ought to be today.

 

[ssjones]

I'm don't mean to lower this threads standard but what's the general consensus on these?

I'm don't mean to lower this threads standard but what's the general consensus on these?

For $3500, it comes with a low rent ETA 2892. Pass. The Devil-Diver reissue has the same problem.

 

[Briar Lee]

For $3500, it comes with a low rent ETA 2892. Pass. The Devil-Diver reissue has the same problem.

Here is the problem with most high end Swiss watches.

Clone Replace 2892 2892A2 Movement Automatic Perlage Polish Finish For SWISS ETA | eBay

Model: for ETA 2892A2. Headset Smart Watch TWS Wireless Bluetooth Dual Headset Call Smartwatch. Sub-dial position: N/A. Winding: Automatic. 10PCS Thermal Glue Adhesive Cooling Paste Thermal Conductive Heat Sink.

www.ebay.com

ETA - MOVEMENT - SWISS MADE- 2892A2 - AUTOMATIC - WHITE DATE - DECORATED ROTOR | eBay

If the product is waterproof, it will be notified. No longer under warranty.

www.ebay.com

A complete watch case and bracelet costs $40.

Small 36mm 40MM Watch Case ceramic bezel sapphire glass fit NH35 NH36 NH34 2824 | eBay

● if you choose 36MM case,it fit 28-28.5mm dial. if you choose 40mm case,it fit Fit28-29.2mm dial. ● Glase : sapphire glass. ● Case m aterial : 316L stainless steel case.

www.ebay.com

Dials and hands are dirt cheap

Watch Dial Face Hands 29mm Fit for NH35 NH36 ETA2824 PT5000 ST2130 SW200 Movt | eBay

ETA2824 2836 ST2130 PT5000. Feed back.

www.ebay.com

And $70 buys a top end decorated Japanese Miyota movement

Original Japan For MIYOTA 9015 Automatic Mechanical Movement 24 Jewels Watch | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Japan For MIYOTA 9015 Automatic Mechanical Movement 24 Jewels Watch at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

They have to sell the sizzle.

A good steak only costs $100 if it’s a watch.

 

[mikethompson]

I'm don't mean to lower this threads standard

We like watches of all kinds in here, there are no standards

 

[Briar Lee]

We like watches of all kinds in here, there are no standards

Patek Philippe NEW Aquanaut Advanced Research 18k White Gold 5650G DOUBLE SEALED | eBay

Rare to find - this is the only double sealed 5650G available. Patek Philippe. 18k White Gold. Blue Rubber Strap. Case Material. We are real people, working at a brick and mortar location, at your service.

www.ebay.com

Is a million dollar Patek Phillipe worth a million?

Yes, absolutely, if you have a net worth of over 100 million dollars.

Xxxxx

28,420 centi-millionaires

These affluent individuals are typically the founders of large multi-national companies or the heirs to vast family fortunes. There are only 28,420 centi-millionaires in the world (as at June 2023), making this a very elite club.

Xxxxx

And it’s twice as cheap as a Patek Phillipe minute repeater, for the billionaires.

Patek Philippe 6301P-001 Grande and Petite Sonnerie Platinum Black Enamel Dial | eBay

Patek Philippe. A. Lange And Sohne. H. Moser and Cie. Vacheron Constantin. Jaquet Droz. Grand Seiko. Girard Perregaux.

www.ebay.com

Xxxxx

There are more than 2600 billionaires globally. Over a quarter of the world's billionaires live in the United States. While the number of billionaires fell amid the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, the figure rebounded and grew again in 2021, falling somewhat by 2023.

Xxxxx

We live in a world where you can buy an excellent quality tribute to a million dollar watch for less than seventy five dollars.

20ATM Tandorio 36mm AR Sapphire Glass Japan NH35A Automatic White Men Watch Date | eBay

>Dial:white tandorio dial,date at 3 o'clock;. Feed back >Luminous dial marks and hands;. >200m water resistance;. >Case material:solid 316L stainless steel case;. >Case thickness:14mm;.

www.ebay.com

Wrist watches are mostly jewelry for men.

Your phone keeps atomic time.

 

[Alejo R.]

For $3500, it comes with a low rent ETA 2892. Pass. The Devil-Diver reissue has the same problem.

For a 3-hand plus date watch, the ETA 2892A2 is a very good movement, stop seconds, bi-directional winding, respectable power reserve. Tested, easy to repair. Many watches have had it and many In House movements of very expensive watches are that caliber with minimal changes.
Greetings.