Vegan Cheese

[BROBS]

It’s just like that stupid fake meat people eat. Uh, my meat comes from plants too, I just let the biological workings of a cow do the transformation not a test tube.

BTW, if being a Vegan is so awesome, why do they have fake burgers, fake bacon, fake hot dogs and whatever else they can concoct.

Finally, you’d be surprised how much garbage Vegans actually consume. Oreo’s anyone?

It’s because of animal suffering, wise guy. Not because meat tastes bad.

 

[BROBS]

That requires me to understand why vegans exist, and I don't have an answer for that yet.

Because we understand that a right to life as some people think exists is for all living things. God said we have “dominion” over animals.. like a regent. Does a king eat his subjects?

check how much pus is allowed in the milk in your state. Mmmmm pus and blood.

 

[alaskanpiper]

We have a vegan health food store/ restaurant in down town B'ham. I have to go there with my wife when she picks up her soap making oils. The first thing I always notice is that everyone looks so sickly, pocked up skin, greyish skin color, either anorexic or weirdly proportioned body fat. I am not sold on being vegan being a healthy alternative. If they chose this lifestyle for health reasons, I think they've proved them self wrong.

If that's the case they are doing it wrong. A whole foods, plant based diet is hard to argue against from a health perspective (at least according to today's science, which as we know, is ever changing when it comes to what's healthy).

It simply takes more effort when it comes to what you are actually eating. You can't just eat whatever the hell plants and expect to be healthy. It takes some diligent planning and study to create a well balanced plant based diet that will provide you with all of the vitamins, minerals, protein, etc. that you need.

 

[BROBS]

Challenge accepted. If I can find it. Believe me I want you to be right. American diets desperately need to move in a more plant based direction, for myriad reasons, and a fine tasting plant based cheese (or rather a smattering of them) could go miles in making that a reality.

However, I am still skeptical, as your palate has no frame of reference. If the only cheese you eat is vegan cheese, then the slightest improvement would seem magical. Whereas I regularly have small snippets of actual smoked gouda, aged gouda, goat cheese, smoked cheddar, beautiful asiagos, incredible parmesans, delightful mozzarella, etc. Anything less than what can be purchased in your average grocery store's "fancy" cheese section, will seem a letdown.

But if it's remotely palatable, it will certainly be a step in the right direction, so I'm more than willing to give it a shot.

This one is one of the best. And there actually are some great artisanal vegan cheeses, but they come from local shops and restaurants etc. I believe there is a good one in Minneapolis for example. There is not anything like that here... and I’m guessing not in Anchorage either but you would have a better shot there somewhere!

 

[philobeddoe]

 

[BROBS]

If that's the case they are doing it wrong. A whole foods, plant based diet is hard to argue against from a health perspective (at least according to today's science, which as we know, is ever changing when it comes to what's healthy).

It simply takes more effort when it comes to what you are actually eating. You can't just eat whatever the hell plants and expect to be healthy. It takes some diligent planning and study to create a well balanced plant based diet that will provide you with all of the vitamins, minerals, protein, etc. that you need.

How well planned are most other peoples diets? 1/4 pounder with cheese and Doritos are not food.

 

[BROBS]

Challenge accepted. If I can find it. Believe me I want you to be right. American diets desperately need to move in a more plant based direction, for myriad reasons, and a fine tasting plant based cheese (or rather a smattering of them) could go miles in making that a reality.

However, I am still skeptical, as your palate has no frame of reference. If the only cheese you eat is vegan cheese, then the slightest improvement would seem magical. Whereas I regularly have small snippets of actual smoked gouda, aged gouda, goat cheese, smoked cheddar, beautiful asiagos, incredible parmesans, delightful mozzarella, etc. Anything less than what can be purchased in your average grocery store's "fancy" cheese section, will seem a letdown.

But if it's remotely palatable, it will certainly be a step in the right direction, so I'm more than willing to give it a shot.

And don’t get me wrong I miss me some sharp cheddar. That shit is bonkers.

especially with apple pie. Ever eaten sharp cheddar with your apple pie??

my grandpa used to say “Apple pie without some cheese is like a kiss without a squeeze”

 

[alaskanpiper]

It’s because of animal suffering, wise guy. Not because meat tastes bad.

I think one thing to that is important to point out here is that people's views of what constitutes animal suffering is a spectrum. It is not simply killing or not killing.

For example, some people, such as myself, may find the corporate farm (really factory) industries treatment of animals to be thoroughly abhorrent, but are fine with eating meat/cheese if they can make every effort to ensure the animals are raised in a way they find ethical. Or better yet, if they can harvest it themselves.

I personally believe that the quick death of a game animal that would otherwise have eventually starved to death or been mutilated by a predator in the next year or two to be more ethical than leaving it to it's fate. Doing the deed yourself and completing the work involved to turn that meat into a plate of food also gives one a much greater respect for meat, thus making it more special, and in turn eaten more rarely and respectfully.

Anyway, beyond the rambling, I think we should all realize that there is a spectrum here. It is not simply bunnyhugger vs. manpig.

 

[BROBS]

I think one thing to that is important to point out here is that people's views of what constitutes animal suffering is a spectrum. It is not simply killing or not killing.

For example, some people, such as myself, may find the corporate farm (really factory) industries treatment of animals to be thoroughly abhorrent, but are fine with eating meat/cheese if they can make every effort to ensure the animals are raised in a way they find ethical. Or better yet, if they can harvest it themselves.

I personally believe that the quick death of a game animal that would otherwise have eventually starved to death or been mutilated by a predator in the next year or two to be more ethical than leaving it to it's fate. Doing the deed yourself and completing the work involved to turn that meat into a plate of food also gives one a much greater respect for meat, thus making it more special, and in turn eaten more rarely and respectfully.

Anyway, beyond the rambling, I think we should all realize that there is a spectrum here. It is not simply bunnyhugger vs. manpig.

Agree. Unless you are producing or harvesting yourself, you can be 100% sure there is undue suffering.

 

[alaskanpiper]

How well planned are most other peoples diets? 1/4 pounder with cheese and Doritos are not food.

That is an excellent point that I was tempted to include in that post, but I didn't want to take the focus away from the fact that with a little effort a plant based diet can be quite healthy.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Agree. Unless you are producing or harvesting yourself, you can be 100% sure there is undue suffering.

IMO, not necessarily yourself, but at least with a self-observed and well researched knowledge of the production/harvest. That is tough to do if the source is not local.

 

[BROBS]

That is an excellent point that I was tempted to include in that post, but I didn't want to take the focus away from the fact that with a little effort a plant based diet can be quite healthy.

Right. Honestly it takes little effort really, unless you’re eating the same thing over and over every day... but that’s true of anything. ?

 

[alaskanpiper]

Right. Honestly it takes little effort really, unless you’re eating the same thing over and over every day... but that’s true of anything. ?

Right. My point was that it takes some effort in general, which many people (including many vegans) are not willing to put forth. Which is a shame.

 

[BROBS]

IMO, not necessarily yourself, but at least with a self-observed and well researched knowledge of the production/harvest. That is tough to do if the source is not local.

Well unless it’s slaughtered there too....
You can’t always research it all.
plus they don’t want you to know things they don’t tell you. ?

Also for dairy: what do you guys think happens to the male calves born to dairy cattle? They don’t produce milk so what do you think they do to them!?

Also male chicks of egg-laying hens. Often thrown live into trash bags or even ground up alive in a shredder.

so don’t tell me that suffering isn’t involved in any type of animal based food production.

 

[BROBS]

Right. My point was that it takes some effort in general, which many people (including many vegans) are not willing to put forth. Which is a shame.

I would postulate healthier than those that put no effort into a non-vegan diet.

 

[sablebrush52]

Vegan cheese is simply their latest step towards self elimination.

You can say that again. My friend called me the next day to inform me that she had gone off like a rocket and was eliminating all morning.

She suggested that the world's supply of this stuff should be rounded up and set ablaze, but I honestly don't think this stuff is flammable.

I did have another variety of vegan cheese on a pizza at a production staff party that had a completely different texture. It was sort of like vegan plush toy stuffing material.

I may pick up some of that Follow Your Heart gouda, just to try it. I used to go to Follow Your Heart decades ago for lunch. They had really good soups.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Well unless it’s slaughtered there too....
You can’t always research it all.
plus they don’t want you to know things they don’t tell you. ?

Also for dairy: what do you guys think happens to the male calves born to dairy cattle? They don’t produce milk so what do you think they do to them!?

Also male chicks of egg-laying hens. Often thrown live into trash bags or even ground up alive in a shredder.

so don’t tell me that suffering isn’t involved in any type of animal based food production.

It would be foolish and blind to suggest that suffering is not involved in any type of animal production. Most of it in fact, is truly abhorrent.

This is why I mentioned above that it takes some serious effort to find truly ethically raised AND harvested animal products. I find it much easier, and incalculably more ethical and fulfilling to simply harvest them myself.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I would postulate healthier than those that put no effort into a non-vegan diet.

You are likely right, but this would vary greatly by individual. Far too many extraneous variables and far too little research data on such a topic to postulate anything.

 

[JOHN72]

welcome to hell........................ ?

 

[BROBS]

You can say that again. My friend called me the next day to inform me that she had gone off like a rocket and was eliminating all morning.

She suggested that the world's supply of this stuff should be rounded up and set ablaze, but I honestly don't think this stuff is flammable.

I did have another variety of vegan cheese on a pizza at a production staff party that had a completely different texture. It was sort of like vegan plush toy stuffing material.

I may pick up some of that Follow Your Heart gouda, just to try it. I used to go to Follow Your Heart decades ago for lunch. They had really good soups.

Yes there are a wide range of shitty to extremely shitty vegan cheeses. I will definitely admit that. ?