You think Aunt Betty is going to give away the secrets of her carrot cake recipe? Not a chance.
Tobacco Topping Fraud
- Thread starter Jeremiah Johnson
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Humm....Black Licorice contains glycyrrhizin which can lower libido in turn suppresses testosterone.Well, I would also welcome some more transparency on this. I see nothing wrong with using ingredients (I'm fine with botanicals in gin or vermouth, or vanilla in chocolate; not so sure about "flavorings"), but I'd like to be told if a tobacco has a substantial quantity of licorice or has been dipped in prune juice (as is the case with some). Knowing whether the chocolate topping of Solani's aged burley flake is cocoa powder or an artificial flavoring does not keep me up at night, but it would be nice to know.
There is a way to get more info, though: the German Ministry of Agriculture has a searchable database with the ingredients of some tobaccos, here's the list for Dunhill's DNR:
Navigationspunkt Tabakzusatzstoffe-Datenbank
Die Internetseite des Bundesministerium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaftservice.bmel.de
With Google Translate it is easy to get the meaning (I encourage everybody to learn German, though, it makes your life better, sort of like taking up pipe smoking)
Cigar tobacco and pipe tobacco are different things. They're processed very differently, come from different parts of the plant, etc. I get the best flavors from my pipe blends when they are dried down.
Frankly, I let my cigars sit for awhile after pulling one from the humidor. But I definitely smoke those moister than I do pipe tobacco.
Saves the hotel hookers for the dentists.
As G.L.Pease once said there are very, very for tobacoos that aren't topped at least a smidgen.
Topped or cased. Greg has also said that tobaccos not so processed don't have anything like the depth of flavor.
oh yeah I do actually. I don't aunts including Betty like giving me their secret recipes. I don't know why. But I float some theories and then suddenly Auntie whispers yeah you're right about this and that but it's actually star anise. Seriously so maybe we should just send me to the factories and see if they tell us what goes in it?
Back to the topic at hand. The first rule of pipe club is that the terms mean nothing they only imply.
So you admit to being confused and that you don't know the difference between toppings and casings, but you think that you know enough about pipe tobacco to say that people are being dishonest and that there is fraud going on?
OkaayJust because a reviewer THINKS there is a topping added, does not make it true and vise versa.
I have smoked blends that tasted to me like KC Masterpiece BBQ sauce, but I am quite sure that the blender didn't use that as a topping. Tastes are VERY subjective.
If you have a question about a blend, ask the manufacturer. If they don't want to tell you, that is their prerogative. But in my experience, they are pretty forthcoming.
Just a side note guys. I have seen the words Fraud, Dishonest, Lying, Unethical, etc flying around here like mosquitos in a swamp in the middle of summer. Please use your words more carefully. These are peoples businesses and reputations that you are talking about and those word choices are very harsh and could damage such things.
People need to learn more and ask more questions before commenting like they know everything. And if you don't know that much about something, please learn about it before using disparaging remarks about it.
100% to what Bob said.
Casings and Toppings are two different things. Toppings are actually what is more associated with the stereotypical sweet flavor or aroma of an “aromatic” pipe tobacco blend. For example, a Cherry Tobacco will have a cherry topping. The topping is applied last, at the very end of the processing just before the tobacco goes into the tin or pouch.
Casing, on the other hand is done to ALL pipe tobacco blends – NOT just AROMATICS. Casing happens around the middle of the processing, and it is not meant to add anything that is detectable to the flavor. Casing is applied, and then the tobacco is left to sit for about a day to absorb the casing. So, casing is absorbed into the tobacco, and toppings, as implied, sit on top of the tobacco and quickly burn off. You don’t so much as taste the topping as smell it.
The most typical casings are as follows:
Virginia tobaccos (which are not strictly from VA, but that’s another lesson), are typically cased with sugar-water.
Burley tobaccos are typically cased with a solution that contains chocolate and / or licorice.
Even though chocolate and licorice do have distinct flavors, they are not detectable as a casing.
Casings serve the purpose of enhancing and bringing out more of the tobacco’s natural flavor. Toppings serve the purpose of adding an additional flavor (taste+aroma) to a blend. The simple way I use to remember the difference is to think of casing as a marinade, as it is added during the processing, and soaks into the tobacco. And think of toppings as a sauce. You could marinate (casing) a steak, then grill it, and after it is cooked, you can put some A1 sauce (topping) on it.
Here is a photo of tobacco being cased at the Orlik Factory in Denmark, which I took in June 2010 when I visited them with Sykes Wilford.
Casings and Toppings are two different things. Toppings are actually what is more associated with the stereotypical sweet flavor or aroma of an “aromatic” pipe tobacco blend. For example, a Cherry Tobacco will have a cherry topping. The topping is applied last, at the very end of the processing just before the tobacco goes into the tin or pouch.
Casing, on the other hand is done to ALL pipe tobacco blends – NOT just AROMATICS. Casing happens around the middle of the processing, and it is not meant to add anything that is detectable to the flavor. Casing is applied, and then the tobacco is left to sit for about a day to absorb the casing. So, casing is absorbed into the tobacco, and toppings, as implied, sit on top of the tobacco and quickly burn off. You don’t so much as taste the topping as smell it.
The most typical casings are as follows:
Virginia tobaccos (which are not strictly from VA, but that’s another lesson), are typically cased with sugar-water.
Burley tobaccos are typically cased with a solution that contains chocolate and / or licorice.
Even though chocolate and licorice do have distinct flavors, they are not detectable as a casing.
Casings serve the purpose of enhancing and bringing out more of the tobacco’s natural flavor. Toppings serve the purpose of adding an additional flavor (taste+aroma) to a blend. The simple way I use to remember the difference is to think of casing as a marinade, as it is added during the processing, and soaks into the tobacco. And think of toppings as a sauce. You could marinate (casing) a steak, then grill it, and after it is cooked, you can put some A1 sauce (topping) on it.
Here is a photo of tobacco being cased at the Orlik Factory in Denmark, which I took in June 2010 when I visited them with Sykes Wilford.
We also have this article from tobacco blender Russ Ouellette. (You can see more cool pics from the factory here too.)
A Tale of Two Syrups – Casings and Top Dressings - https://pipesmagazine.com/blog/put-that-in-your-pipe/a-tale-of-two-syrups-casings-and-top-dressings/
A Tale of Two Syrups – Casings and Top Dressings - https://pipesmagazine.com/blog/put-that-in-your-pipe/a-tale-of-two-syrups-casings-and-top-dressings/
Well, I would also welcome some more transparency on this. I see nothing wrong with using ingredients (I'm fine with botanicals in gin or vermouth, or vanilla in chocolate; not so sure about "flavorings"), but I'd like to be told if a tobacco has a substantial quantity of liquorice or has been dipped in prune juice (as is the case with some). Knowing whether the chocolate topping of Solani's aged burley flake is cocoa powder or an artificial flavoring does not keep me up at night, but it would be nice to know.
There is a way to get more info, though: the German Ministry of Agriculture has a searchable database with the ingredients of some tobaccos, here's the list for Dunhill's DNR:
Navigationspunkt Tabakzusatzstoffe-Datenbank
Die Internetseite des Bundesministerium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft
With Google Translate it is easy to get the meaning (I encourage everybody to learn German, though, it makes your life better, sort of like taking up pipe smoking)
Why would it be nice to know? I think it's much nicer to know whether or not I like the blend. If I like the blend, I don't care if they spray Ostrich Urine on it. Overall, I could care less what's in it. Last time I was at a steak house, I didn't ask the waiter to bring out the cow, so I could stick my arm up its ass, before I chose my cut of meat.
It’s no different than people wanting to know information about wine. I would care if there was ostrich urine in it.
However to call something fraudulent because they don’t reveal a secret recipe is a little crazy. If he wants such transparency only buy from a company that provides such information, if one exists.
I’m still afraid SG uses African Cat Ass juices on RB plug
Hmm... No wonder my wife keeps telling me to eat more black licorice.
FWIW, a magician doesn't reveal his tricks. As long as toppings and casings no longer contain potentially dangerous ingredients like talc and belladonna, which were once among the myriad additives now outlawed, why is it anyone's business how a blender achieves his or her effects?
M'lady knew a woman who didn't like to give out her recipes. A couple of times when she did, she purposely left out an ingredient in the recipes so m'lady's friend couldn't make them as well as the woman did.
M'lady knew a woman who didn't like to give out her recipes. A couple of times when she did, she purposely left out an ingredient in the recipes so m'lady's friend couldn't make them as well as the woman did.
I’ve done this with recipes when friends ask. Why? Because. It’s MY chili, dammit, not EVERYONES.
I like to know what the casing/topping is just for curiosity’s sake. Seems like the portions of leaf type is the relatively easy part in creating a blend...but the subtle, often unnoticed toppings that set each blend apart is where the real magic hand of the blender comes into play. Of course they don’t want to tell you what it is!
Even blends like the HH line, which exists to highlight specific leaf types and not added flavors, is cased to an extent. Not sure if I’ve ever even smoked uncased tobacco?
I don't want to know what's in it. It's almost like wondering what's that crunch bit is in Chinese take out. No. I'll just enjoy it and be happy.
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