Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions.

[Zero]

Titan sub: OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush admitted 'breaking rules' | Fortune

‘You’re remembered for the rules you break’: OceanGate CEO who was piloting the Titan admitted in 2021 that the sub’s construction had ‘broken some rules’

OceanGate was warned that the Titan, which suffered a “catastrophic implosion” on its journey to see the Titanic shipwreck, had serious design flaws.

fortune.com

I was trying to share this Twitter video of Rush admitting to breaking the rules. Here it is on Newsweek.
John Holowesko on Twitter: "“I’ve broken some rules to make this…” Confidence inducing stuff from #titan CEO #Titanic https://t.co/JXLdQNqbM0" / Twitter

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671322944541261827

 

[Jaylotw]

I just saw an interview with a father/son duo who were interested in the trip, and backed out because the 20 year old son recognized the safety issues. Rush flew out to Vegas to beg them to come and offered reduced price etc, gave them some lines of BS in an attempt to quell their concerns.

Also saw an interview with an investor in Oceangate...he expressed almost no sympathy, just praised Rush as an "innovator" who "did things no one else was doing..." Yeah. Like getting people killed and costing multiple nations millions for the search effort.

Like I said before, my sympathy lies with the four people who trusted him, their families, and whoever Rush left behind...but I'm finding it very hard to feel bad for this guy. He took the leading expert on the Titanic wreck with him, too, a guy who had the respect of everyone in that small world.

As someone who is fascinated by shipwrecks and their history, I've followed this whole thing closely and a bit obsessively...and I've just grown angrier at Rush and the fact that he slithered through the cracks in regulations to be able to do this.

I wonder what regulations will be put in place now...maybe that the sub must be certified under whatever flag the support vessel is flying, even if both are operating in international water?

 

[ashdigger]

So here’s how an actual deep sea sub is made. This sub successfully completed 5 Deeps

 

[sablebrush52]

I was trying to share this Twitter video of Rush admitting to breaking the rules. Here it is on Newsweek.
John Holowesko on Twitter: "“I’ve broken some rules to make this…” Confidence inducing stuff from #titan CEO #Titanic https://t.co/JXLdQNqbM0" / Twitter

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671322944541261827

Well, Rush is not likely to be remembered as an innovator, more likely as a self deluded fool who got himself and others violently killed.

 

[anotherbob]

Money can detach a person from reality and the suffering of others, for sure.

And for some I think that's a big part of the desire to have more money then a small nation. I had one job where four of my co workers came from an insane amount of money. Three of them where great and one was probably one the biggest point of sale (actually the other POS abbreviation) I think I've ever met. And from my estimation it all came down to whether or not their families chose to insulate themselves from the wider realities and society or not. The POS who we called colon ended up doing a decent stint in prison for commiting credit card fraud he'd steal credit cards from new girlfriends

I just find it a little disturbing how many people believe themselves to be the ultimate arbiters of who is deserving of death.

as well as the I know who that person is based on scant evidence (I am guilt of this too, which doesn't make it any less disturbing or silly). They're rich and took a dumb risk that's what we know. I think a big question with rich should always be how'd they get rich. Oh well being a human is certainly interesting.

And I agree that it's better to go out doing something you love or having an adventure than to live to a ripe old age in safe mediocrity.

We all got go at some point. Might as well make the most of it while we can (which of course is different for different people). There were several studies done on people that do extreme risk types of sports like jumping off of skyscrappers and things like that. And one of things that was noticed was that their brains reacted to these life and death thrills the same way most people react to a good action scene in a movie or book.

 

[jpberg]

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

And I agree that it's better to go out doing something you love or having an adventure than to live to a ripe old age in safe mediocrity.

Sorry, never typed this before here, but I compelled to say “bullshit”!

Sounds good (I guess) but with those stated parameters, I don’t believe for a minute you would agree to die tomorrow if the Grim Reaper shows up and gives you that choice.

 

[ssjones]

I hadn't picked up that they went 2.5 miles down, in a tin can. No thanks. No risk, no reward I guess.

 

[mortonbriar]

And I agree that it's better to go out doing something you love or having an adventure than to live to a ripe old age in safe mediocrity.

Well the irony here, is that this entire forum is based around old people, (and people getting old) enjoying the (almost) safe mediocrity that is pipe smoking!!!!

 

[Briar Lee]

I hadn't picked up that they went 2.5 miles down, in a tin can. No thanks. No risk, no reward I guess.

What Ocean Gate did differently than other deep diving exploration companies was use carbon fiber for the pressure hull, with titanium caps, instead of all titanium.

There was no attempt made to certify or use non destructive testing for the carbon fiber hull, either.

I just assumed using carbon fiber was cheaper, but that might not be the case.

Titanium is about ten thousand dollars a ton.

Carbon fiber costs from $25,000 to $95,000 a ton.

So why would Rush use it?

The cost of fabrication might have been less, and the primary reason may have been ability to gain more area, since it’s lighter, avoid use of syntactic foam and haul five instead of two or three passengers.

The 1964 submersible Alvin used a titanium pressure hull, and held three passengers.

DSV Alvin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The number of deep diving submersibles is very small, and this failure will likely keep any future vessels made entirely of metals, such as titanium.

Most of us, value innovation.

But not at the expense of safety.

Experiments at 13,000 feet deep are ill advised.

 

[sablebrush52]

It astounds me the information did not leak.

Whatever threats Admiral Mauger used were effective.

This is going to happen again someday, to some other deep sea exploration.

Admiral Mauger wrote the textbook on how to conduct a rescue operation.

Not as astounding as McClelland letting its dealers know that it was going to close shop a good 6 months or more before it actually happened. They did this so tobacconists could contact their loyal customers and give them an opportunity to stock up before the news got out and the speculators, hoarders and crazies descended on what was available and wiped it out.
I knew about it months in advance. People were shocked when it was actually announced. Pipesmokers keeping their traps shut? Who woulda thunk it!

 

[mso489]

Some engineering expert I saw was explaining how making the composite hull of the submersible flex under the pressure and then relax on the surface apparently wore out its structural strength and caused it to implode.

He noted that when you fly on an airliner you see the wings flex, and the materials have to be extensively tested to make sure they can continue to do that.

The Titan had made the dive a number of times with no apparent problem, but clearly that wasn't the whole story.

So one confident inventor couldn't make that call on the safety and durability of the vessel's hull. It worked ten or twenty times, so he assumed it would work for one hundred or more.

Fortune favors the bold? Sometimes.

 

[ashdigger]

Here’s an excellent video of the sub just prior to the mission that ended poorly.

 

[Lumbridge]

Well the irony here, is that this entire forum is based around old people, (and people getting old) enjoying the (almost) safe mediocrity that is pipe smoking!!!!

What are you talking about, sir? Pipe smoking IS an adventure... of sorts. Especially when combined with a good book.

 

[sablebrush52]

Fortune favors the bold? Sometimes.

Fortune rarely favors the careless.

 

[Lumbridge]

Sorry, never typed this before here, but I compelled to say “bullshit”!

Sounds good (I guess) but with those stated parameters, I don’t believe for a minute you would agree to die tomorrow if the Grim Reaper shows up and gives you that choice.

Everything has some inherent risk involved. Simply driving to the grocery store could get one killed - it happens every day. Some people won't even get on a plane to go somewhere they've always wanted to visit simply due to the miniscule chance of disaster.

I used to live like that. I'm done with it. At one point, I had a pretty serious wake-up call, and it snapped me out of the trance. After no small amount of rumination, I realized that I'm not as afraid of dying as I used to be. Am I going to take stupid, unnecessary risks? No, I'd very much like to live to be old. But I'm gonna get out and do shit and see the world, not sit on my ass and flip channels until I get stuck in the old folks' home.

 

[Briar Lee]

Some engineering expert I saw was explaining how making the composite hull of the submersible flex under the pressure and then relax on the surface apparently wore out its structural strength and caused it to implode.

He noted that when you fly on an airliner you see the wings flex, and the materials have to be extensively tested to make sure they can continue to do that.

The Titan had made the dive a number of times with no apparent problem, but clearly that wasn't the whole story.

So one confident inventor couldn't make that call on the safety and durability of the vessel's hull. It worked ten or twenty times, so he assumed it would work for one hundred or more.

Fortune favors the bold? Sometimes.

I think I might have touched on the reason for Rush building the Titan with a carbon fiber shell.

In the entire world there are only a tiny number of manned submersibles capable of exploring at 13,000 feet.

Most are owned by governments or research institutions, and carry one or three persons.

https://www.mtsmuv.org/active-manned-submersibles-by-depth

Rush built the largest deep diving submersible possible, carrying himself as pilot and four revenue paying passengers.

To do that, he took a risk using carbon fiber instead of titanium, not so much to save cost but gain area inside.

It turned out, badly.

It will be quite awhile before somebody else tries that.

 

[sablebrush52]

Everything has some inherent risk involved. Simply driving to the grocery store could get one killed - it happens every day. Some people won't even get on a plane to go somewhere they've always wanted to visit simply due to the miniscule chance of disaster.

I used to live like that. I'm done with it. At one point, I had a pretty serious wake-up call, and it snapped me out of the trance. After no small amount of rumination, I realized that I'm not as afraid of dying as I used to be. Am I going to take stupid, unnecessary risks? No, I'd very much like to live to be old. But I'm gonna get out and do shit and see the world, not sit on my ass and flip channels until I get stuck in the old folks' home.

I suspect there's a middle road. Stepping in front of a speeding train for kicks isn't what I'd be doing.

 

[anotherbob]

Sorry, never typed this before here, but I compelled to say “bullshit”!

Sounds good (I guess) but with those stated parameters, I don’t believe for a minute you would agree to die tomorrow if the Grim Reaper shows up and gives you that choice.

Frankly I'd take it if the alternative was clear. The thing is where there is life there is hope. But if I had to pick between the two I'd rather have some good stories in case there is an after life then to while away in boredom.

 

[Lumbridge]

I suspect there's a middle road. Stepping in front of a speeding train for kicks isn't what I'd be doing.

That sounds highly inadvisable. Just trying to illustrate that I think it's absurd to say that these people deserved what happened to them simply because they took a risk that they deemed to be acceptable, which unfortunately did not pay off.