The 2015 Esoterica Sales Fraud Incident

[iamn8]

Scenario I go with was that he need X amount of cash for something and sold enough to cover it. Why not more? Maybe he felt justified and it was only what he needed? Who knows, but fraud is fraud.

 

[bonehed]

Am I missing something? That's 12 of 16 accounted for, no?

 

[dmcmtk]

Am I missing something? That's 12 of 16 accounted for, no?

Yes, I think so. The OP was for 9 Penzance 7 Stonehaven. The 12 accounted for so far refer to Stonehaven, as I read things.

 

[woodsroad]

"I have 9 bags of Penzance and 7 bags of Stonehaven all sealed 8oz bags. I had a buyer for all of them when I sold off my stash. The person who was supposed to buy all 16 bags never sent payment and I have not been able to reach him for over a week so they are fair game. "

That's where I stopped reading that thread.
It was heading somewhere in a mad rush, somewhere out on the edge of town where it's always dusk and smells like a landfill, and it was going there without me.

 

[bonehed]

dmcmtk - gotcha.

 

[skraps]

Get the rope. Let's hang the guy.
What? We still don't have all the information on exactly what happened? Bah, pesky little details.

 

[dmcmtk]

Get the rope. Let's hang the guy.

What, we have no idea what actually happened? Bah, pesky little details.

As I think I made clear, with regard to your first statement, this is not my attitude at all, because I acknowledge the truth of your second statement. Only aiming for clarity here.

 

[skraps]

Only aiming for clarity here.

Not aimed at you, DMC. More of a general jab to the masses.

 

[dmcmtk]

Got it, and yes we don't know, and may never know, all the facts.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I get the feeling that the bulk of customers that actually buy StoneHaven, Penzance, Balkan Sobranie etc. don't buy it to smoke it. They buy it to turn around and sell on ebay and make a profit. Its really annoying and makes for incidents like this to happen. Very unfortunate.

Can speak only from my own experience: The Penzance I've bought is not going to be resold, nor the Margate, unless out of my estate. Same with some aged GLPease blends.

 

[jvnshr]

The burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies.
Just for the info.
And that is what I found back then. Photos were deleted by Mods.

 

[gogosamgo]

To add to the number sold, I purchased 9 bags from him. He said he wanted to sell two lots of 8, but he said he had 9 left when I contacted him. I offered to take them at $50 a bag, which he agreed. I had done nearly a $100 purchase from him just a few weeks before, which I received, so I never thought it would turn out like this. I luckily got my money refunded through a paypal case. I do hope he is ok, but after reading that 12 bags were sold to others plus the 9 I purchased, the numbers just aren't adding up.

 

[mikestanley]

I didn't buy from the source of all this consternation but this sure is an example of how valuable Paypal is. I know there is a lot of crap thrown at Paypal but imagine if all the buyers had sent money orders or even personal checks? There would indeed be townspeople with pitchforks and torches.
Mike S.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

+1 mikestanley
One observation - I have noticed that it is pretty common for sellers (on here and elsewhere) to insist that paypal payments be sent by way of the "friends and family" option in order to avoid paypal charges from the recipient's perspective. I assume that if you do that, you are SOL with respect to any prospect of getting a refund via paypal, is this correct?
If it is correct, I would be curious to know whether folks on here have a policy of not sending payments via the Friends and Family option?

 

[bigpond]

Yes Peck, the friends and family option offers no recourse in the event of fraud.

 

[jackswilling]

For the record, he "sold" me 8 bags of the P-word. That was a magic tobacco lot, indeed.
Agree with the above, as I noted in post # 3.
"But for PayPal, a whole lot of $$$ would have been up in smoke."



"I would be curious to know whether folks on here have a policy of not sending payments via the Friends and Family option?"
I have done it many times, way north of 100, here and on firearms forums and never a problem. Due to the amount of $$$ involved, this was not sent as a "gift" Thank God. One "gun" forum I belong to makes quick work of "deadbeats." I just did a PayPal gift here with a member, no problem. For smaller purchases, $100 +/- I will continue to do so. I don't like to give PayPal any vigorish unless there is some serious $$$ involved as sellers often want that premium back on top.

 

[dmcmtk]

So now it's up to 29 bags "sold". This is good info, I hoped to see it in this thread.

 

[davet]

In the original for sale post he stated;

I have 9 bags of Penzance and 7 bags of Stonehaven all sealed 8oz bags. I had a buyer for all of them when I sold off my stash.

I wondered at the time how he managed to sell his "stash" without listing it on here and all he had for leftovers was some of the most sought after blends. 8O

 

[dmcmtk]

I wondered at the time how he managed to sell his "stash" without listing it on here and all he had for leftovers was some of the most sought after blends.

He actually did sell his other tobaccos here.

 

[deathmetal]

I wonder if this was an account hack. Either that, or a mental problem, leading to someone overselling and then saying screw it.
It still doesn't make sense to me as a ripoff; he had no hope of collecting.