The 2015 Esoterica Sales Fraud Incident

[deathmetal]

It's like a major case of "screw it...".

Agreed. It's not the normal ripoff profile, which is to show up and conceal themselves, then dangle the absurdly good deal and rip off the credulous.
Let me portray a couple scenarios:
(1)
Pipe smoker buys one tin too many of Penzance. Wife panics, maybe in conjunction with financial troubles. She puts her foot down and says all the tobacco must go.
Heartbroken pipe smoker rationalizes this. "Well, I guess it's not good for me anyway..." Heavy-hearted, he posts a message selling everything.
The next day, or week, things look different. The finances are OK, the wife calms down. Now he has regret. Sell his collection that he worked years to make?
He looks at his inbox, which is overflowing, and realizes that he will have to apologize/refund to each of these people. Logs off and does something else instead.
(2)
Pipe smoker has lost interest in the activity. He and the wife moved to a new house which he really likes but there's no way for him to smoke since the central HVAC blows the smoke around. After a few months of barely touching the pipe, he decides to sell it all except for one cob and a pound of Smoker's Pride.
He gets excited, lists the stuff, does the emails, and then realizes what a pain in the ass this will be. Just hours of postal BS and packaging and dealing with people who are whether legitimately or not annoying him. In the time it takes him to sell this stuff, he can make 2x working overtime.
So he logs off, and hops in the truck back to work.
***
I've seen these and similar situations with metal sales. One guy found his inbox swelled to fifty messages, then just logged off forever. Another rediscovered his music, drunk and nostalgic sitting on the shag carpet late one night. Others got promotions or girlfriends and found that fulfilling these obligations were too much. A few went insane or into rehab.
This is why I say what I do: the pattern of a classic ripoff is missing here. Something else is afoot. I'm not trying to excuse it, but I really do not trust the internet pitchfork brigade anywhere. Perhaps instead it makes sense to be forgiving at least until we know what's going on.
My money is on scenario #1.

 

[andrew]

I'm glad you got your money back. It is strange as I inquired to buy Mississippi River off of him and he never got back to me, so if it were a complete scam then I don't know why he would of not taken my money. On the other hand if you had to open a paypal case to get a refund it's not a totally innocent thing on the sellers end. He could of simply given refunds with a sorry message changed my mind and all of this would have been over.

 

[iamn8]

Dm, I understand why you believe this to be so, but you're wrong. Had you come from where I'm sitting you'd see this differently, but as you weren't ripped off I'm uncertain why you're attempting to defend him. I'm done with this issue.

 

[deathmetal]

I am not defending anyone. I have seen this before. If you have additional information, feel free to post it. Otherwise, time will tell, or not

 

[pepesdad1]

We all come to this forum with one common attribute...our word. Our reputation. On the internet you can be who you want to be...more importantly, you can be a better person, just by staying true to your word. I met my closest friend two years ago on the forum. We communicate daily just to keep ourselves up.

So, if you blow your word, your reputation...you might as well just hang it up...it is all you had and you blew it...for what?

 

[jpmcwjr]

George-
Re your offer:

Speaking of Esoterica tobaccos, I happen to have 18000 pounds of Penzance, and 12000 pounds of Stonehaven for sale. It's all 15 years old and in original packaging.

I've been in touch with a nice fellow in your country, who's going to send me $10,000,000 as soon as I spring him from jail for $10,000. So, to streamline things, I told him you'd pay the ten grand, and then he'd buy all your tobacco, plus a hundred grand cause your'e a good fella. BTW, he's showing up at your door tomorrow at 8 am...Please have the cash ready! WE both will soon be rich!!

 

[derfargin]

I'll share a story of "the accused:"
About a year ago, there was a thread talking about SPC blends and comparing Plum Pudding to Mississippi River. I had made a comment about how I wouldn't mind retrying Mississippi River, because I hadn't found it all that great, and perhaps it was due to the fact that I had originally tried it when I had just started pipe smoking.
A day or so later, I get a PM from "the accused" asking for my address so he can send a sample of some Mississippi River. I had asked if there was anything he wanted in trade, and he never responded.
About 3 days later, I get a box in the mail...A BOX mind you, and inside is an unopened EIGHT OUNCE can of Mississippi River, AND a unopened tin of 2013 Christmas Cheer. I was at a loss for words. I wasn't expecting this in the least. I figured he'd throw 1/4 to 1/2 oz sample in a baggie and send it out. I immediately sent a PM to him asking if there was anything he'd like to trade/try so I could at least feel like I could "even the scales". I got the following response from him.

Marc, Please enjoy. I feel the piper community treat each other like this so I was more than happy to do it. I got plenty of both blends so it was my pleasure to share some. I have some Kajun Kake on the way only other blend I have been looking at is Bayou Morning Flake, Enjoy my friend.

My point here is that others I think have spoken highly of their interactions with "the accused" and that it seems a bit odd that he'd spend almost over a year contributing to this community, have had multiple dealings with other forum members that were pleasant, and not to mention just hand over almost $45 worth of tobacco to me when I was just looking for a sample, to ultimately stage some kind of fraudulent ruse to dupe people out of cash for Stonehaven? It's clear from his response to me that he'd been on the receiving end of equal or greater kindness from this community.
I would like to think based on all of that, there might have been some reasonable story as to why things went the way they did in your situation. I don't think someone built up that kind of reputation, in order to blow it all on a $250 "windfall" in order to cheat someone out of a few bags of tobacco, but that's just my experience and opinion.
Anyway Nate, I'm glad to hear you've got your money back. These types of situations are the reasons people use Paypal.

 

[kola]

Why is the username not revealed? ???

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

I get the feeling that the bulk of customers that actually buy StoneHaven, Penzance, Balkan Sobranie etc. don't buy it to smoke it. They buy it to turn around and sell on ebay and make a profit. Its really annoying and makes for incidents like this to happen. Very unfortunate.

 

[skraps]

Yeah, the whole damn situation sucks. It sucks that he offered up a bunch of tobacco, collected money and then disappeared. Too many bags... maybe the guy miscounted. The simple fact is that NO ONE knows what is going on with this guys life, health, family, etc.
People are getting their money back, maybe avoid judgement unless you have all the facts. Hell, maybe even a modicum of forgiveness is in order, just for the simple fact that we are all human.
I hope for the sake of the "Pitchfork Brigades" conscience, something bad didn't happen to him. Crow don't taste so good.

 

[andrew]

Lol those are really terrible reasons for stealing people's money

Agreed. He was also quite active on the forum during the time he was taking money. I also find it bizarre how you'd simply show up after not being around for months, with a huge stash of penzance and stonehaven for sale. I hardly think of this as a pitchfork brigade, members have his home address.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Gents,
I am glad you are getting your money back. I learned long ago not to rush to judgment and to hope others do not rush to judge me. If this was truly fraud, it ranks amongst the most incompetent fraudulent schemes I have ever seen. The facts just don't add up, as others have already suggested. So I am with scrapsoftobacco on this one.

 

[pilotage16]

After following this story and threads for the last week or so. My guess is a severe health issue or a death in the family. Money and tobacco don't matter when huge life changing events happen. I'm glad people are getting their money back, and I hope everything works out for the parties involved.

 

[fitzy]

I always knew we couldn't trust peck. :nana:

 

[sfduke]

I bought "the accused" lot of Mississippi River 8oz tins and the transaction went smoothly. Sorry to hear about these issues but glad those impacted are getting their refunds.

 

[dmcmtk]

The facts just don't add up...

Agreed, and I can make no judgement until, or if, I ever hear the facts. At this point seeking a paypal refund seems the only sensible course of action. Over a month has passed since my last communication with the seller. Not sharpening any pitchfork, just protecting my interests with the only remedy available; nothing more, nor less.

 

[tarheel1]

A close friend of mine just got his money back for the 5 bags of stonehaven he ordered.

 

[dmcmtk]

A close friend of mine just got his money back for the 5 bags of stonehaven he ordered.

And it wasn't Nate? So that accounts for 12 bags of Stonehaven that were purchased so far. From the OP FS Penzance and Stonehaven 12-9-15,

I have 9 bags of Penzance and 7 bags of Stonehaven all sealed 8oz bags. I had a buyer for all of them when I sold off my stash. The person who was supposed to buy all 16 bags never sent payment and I have not been able to reach him for over a week so they are fair game.

Am I getting this right?

 

[iamn8]

Yes you are. That's what I meant by obvious fraud.

 

[dmcmtk]

I'm going to go with...WTF!!!