So What is the Latest on Dunhill?

[deathmetal]

I am hoping that these blends will be sold and continue under a new name.
The question here is of their primary motivation:
1. Not a big seller

2. Brand damage
I do not believe the latter, since they are perfectly fine with Dunhill cigarettes, which are a big seller because they are some of the few cigarettes still worth smoking.
For that reason, I see it as entirely possible that they hand off the brand to whoever comes up with a couple million for it, which requires someone looking at long-term sales potential in order to pay off that cost.

 

[brian64]

My understanding is that the owners of the Dunhill name wants to eliminate it's association with tobacco products (Can you say irony).

The irony saturation level on the planet has reached the point where I only notice the occasional lack of it anymore.

 

[lazar]

They also saw the connection of the Dunhill name to tobacco as a fiscal liability.

he owners of the Dunhill name wants to eliminate it's association with tobacco products

Which is why they're continuing to sell Dunhill cigarettes? That's much more of a public perception liability than pipe tobacco, which they've been associated with forever. I'm not sure I even buy the "not enough profit" explanation. As a major international brand with huge name recognition, surely they sell more than the likes of McClelland, Gawiths, C&D etc. - especially considering that Dunhill themselves don't actually have to do anything themselves, but just sit back and let Orlik send them money.

 

[warren]

I don't see the irony. If tobacco makes money, which it did, sell tobacco. When sales tail off, stop selling that which is no longer viable, be it pipes, tobaccos, cigars, or cigarettes. Economics, not irony.
When you have a "marque" worth billions, not millions, you do not put the health of that brand in the hands of others. Many here long noted the lowering of the marque by attaching it to what are, today, substandard blends. I write that comparing them to the blends I remember in the 60s and 70s. So, the brand name has already lost stature with some people.
"Dunhill" cigarettes are still marketed as upscale and make a profit. "Dunhill" blends, today's, are not seen a luxury brand and do not fit into how the owner of the name wishes "Dunhill" to be seen and valued. "Dunhill" products are marketed for the masses. "Dunhill", as a label, is for products to be marketed to a specific audience. That is how the owner wishes the label to be envisioned by its target audience.

 

[brian64]

Which is why they're continuing to sell Dunhill cigarettes? That's much more of a public perception liability than pipe tobacco, which they've been associated with forever.

Good point...unless they plan to discontinue the name from the cigarettes as well.
I would suspect it's a very tiny percentage of cigarette smokers who smoke Dunhill (at least in the USA anyway).
Just in case there is anyone here who is not already aware of this:

Reynolds American now entirely owned by British American Tobacco
Reynolds American Inc. is officially a U.S. subsidiary of the world’s largest publicly traded tobacco manufacturer.

British American Tobacco Plc announced Tuesday it has completed the purchase of the 57.8 percent of Reynolds it did not already own.

The sale was reflected in a news release, a U.S. regulatory filing showing 100 percent ownership, and a change on Reynolds’ website reflecting it is the wholly owned U.S. subsidiary of BAT after 142 years of corporate independence.
http://www.journalnow.com/business/business_news/local/reynolds-american-now-entirely-owned-by-british-american-tobacco/article_b6769364-9c0e-504a-b322-8adedc81cdb1.html

 

[cigrmaster]

I keep thinking I should throw 10 grand at select Dunhill tins and sit on them for 10-20 years. I probably won't be around in 20 but my kids will. I can see Dunhill tins selling for 150-200 a tin and my cost will only be 10.00. That is a nice little profit.
Hypothetically, if you could afford to spend the ten grand, would you?

 

[warren]

In a nut shell, Dunhill, which still controls the use of the name, would prefer not to have their name on a product marketed to everybody. Much like Bentley would not wish for me to seen driving one of their coaches. Well, if I was wearing livery that would probably be acceptable.
Mercedes now markets to everyone with some less expensive lines. Their exclusivity or, the perception of, is history. Dunhill is wanting to stay exclusive in their branding. Couple that to tobacco not being particularly socially acceptable or profitable, except in a fairly non-competitive way, BAT being the player, why sell Dunhill blends? Dunhill cigarettes? There's still a dollar or Euro to be mined in that market. And, Dunhill cigarettes are perceived as upscale coffin nails, fitting in with the image Dunhill wishes to project. The wielder on the plant floor has a pack of Marlboros in his pocket. Up in executive suites? Dunhill flat packs are displayed in a leather, Dunhill brief case, next to the Mont Blanc fountain pen.

 

[sablebrush52]

Hypothetically, if you could afford to spend the ten grand, would you?

No. Too many variables to make this a solid investment. But that's just me. I think Pipes and tobaccos are a terrific pleasure and a lousy investment.

 

[cigrmaster]

Jesse, which variables don't you like? My experience with old Dunhill tins is when they were no longer produced by Murrey, my 5 dollar tins became 60-65 dollar tins 10 years later. My gut is telling me that when the name is no longer made, people are going to go all Penzance and Stonehaven on them.

 

[hawky454]

I think Warren hit the nail on the head. It's like if you were to find Tom Ford products in Walmart, it would ruin the entire image of the brand. Dunhill wants to remain a luxury brand. Makes since to me but I think it would be hilarious if you could buy a Tom Ford suit right next to the Faded Glory line of clothing.

Dancing with the FDA.

I'd rather dance with the devil in the pale moonlight. :mrgreen:

 

[sablebrush52]

Jesse, which variables don't you like?

I don't like the prevailing cultural and legislative climate and see no reason to expect that it will change for the better. Banning Internet sales of tobacco is already happening and it's only a matter of time until it happens here. I wouldn't be surprised if becoming a legal seller of tobacco becomes more complicated whether on a country by country basis, or state by state. Maybe you can sell your stuff at pipe shows or through mail order, in which case you may be fine, unless the sales of tobacco, especially vintage tobacco that's been who-knows-where, becomes a target for the FDA. When you sold your Murray's stuff, for too little money as it turns out, it was a different environment.

 

[cigrmaster]

Jesse, all good points. I have a feeling that eventually there is going to be a large black market for aged pipe tobacco. I can see the US government or more states like Wisconsin banning internet sales of tobacco. Even though things like that come to pass, I believe there will always be people who will have no problem ignoring those laws. People like me for example. :mrgreen:

 

[prairiedruid]

Actually Dunhill is dropping tobacco blends so it can focus on selling the new marijuana blends: My Mixture 420, Ye Olde Stoner, and Royal Low Rider.

 

[olkofri]

Early Morning Pot?

 

[georged]

Dunhill went all in on their expensive, status-connected, "snob-appeal" marketing bet a long time ago.
Now that pipe smoking isn't viewed BY that demographic as something cool to do, they want out of it. The end.
The company's focus started shifting away from pipes the first day they sold more gift-widgets than tobacco-related items, and never looked back. The pipe business has been "carried" for decades by the gift-widgets out of nostalgia and loyalty---as long as it didn't lose TOO much money, it was safe.
Those days are now over. Also, besides the money side, England has completely rolled over to the Politically Correct World Vision, and Dunhill's stakeholders are behaving accordingly: All Things Tobacco Are Irredeemably Evil, etc. etc. (It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. 100 years after ruling the world---meaning within the lifetime of some of my pipes---England is struggling for relevance of any sort.)

 

[warren]

Richemont, a family/privately held enterprise, owns Alfred Dunhill Ltd. and Mont Blanc and Cartier and Purdy and Sons and Piaget and ... nothing but luxury producing companies. Switzerland based they are.
The tobacco side of Dunhill is kind of a separate animal, licensed?/leased? to British American Tobacco. I've never determined the exact relationship. But, Richemont controls the name, hence "White Spot" pipes even though a scion of the Dunhill family owns the company, he cannot use the name on the pipes. White Spot does sell Dunhill branded tobaccos from BAT and pouches, tools, etc which I believe are made for BAT, not sure.
Richemont, being privately held, is not subject a lot of the "public disclosure" laws of Switzerland.

 

[mso489]

warren, yeah, privately held is a black box. All kinds of arbitrary decisions can be made, and there are no stock holder meetings to air them. It is a somewhat interesting soap opera to watch and speculate about, to me, but I'd miss the blends if they fall through the floor. I'll be fascinated if they sell or license them out again.

 

[unkleyoda]

Economics, not irony.

I'm not sure you understand what irony means.

 

[derekflint]

What is the estimate of the end ? 2018 or 19 ?

 

[rhoadsie]

Not that I care too much but I'm having a hard time reconciling statements in this thread...

Those days are now over. Also, besides the money side, England has completely rolled over to the Politically Correct World Vision, and Dunhill's stakeholders are behaving accordingly: All Things Tobacco Are Irredeemably Evil, etc. etc.

Note that Dunhill cigarettes will continue to be made and to be sold. That's where the money is.

So when decisions come to money, PC views take a backseat...not surprising. :puffpipe: