I’m really jealous now thanks!
Seriously awesome find though and I think that’s a Liverpool… if so it’s awesome!Show Off Your Kaywoodie Pipes
- Thread starter crashthegrey
- Start date
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Seriously awesome find though and I think that’s a Liverpool… if so it’s awesome!
Thank you, I’m on the lookout for a golden clover Thorn at the moment.
I’m bumping my question. Tell me if I’m annoying. I’m thinking that this was changed to “imported briar” in the latter 30s? Sorry. Someone is going to know.
From what I’ve gathered, they stopped aged bruyere stamping in the mid 30’s and started with the imported briar designation. Hopefully someone else can give you a more definitive answer.I’m bumping my question. Tell me if I’m annoying. I’m thinking that this was changed to “imported briar” in the latter 30s? Sorry. Someone is going to know.
@sablebrush52 knows a little more about the Briar stamping than I do, but I think IMPORTED BRIAR is the earlier stamp and AGED BRUYERE is the later stamp.I’m bumping my question. Tell me if I’m annoying. I’m thinking that this was changed to “imported briar” in the latter 30s? Sorry. Someone is going to know.
Really? It’s got to be the other way around…well, I don’t have a big collection to look at actually. I have to go online and dig more. Thanks.
I certainly could have it backwards, I’ve honestly never put much stock in the briar stamp. They seem to have used them interchangeably. It’s far easier to date based on shape/line number, stinger, button shape, and other stamps.
I found this:
kwguy
28111
Feb 13 '13#10
Rock Ambera stems were in use up until the 40's as I've seen Flame Grains with Ambera stems.
I think the Drinkless Kaywoodies may have had the KBB logo on the shank into the 40's but not on any other lines.
As for the briar designation, I've always been of the opinion that all other designations were dropped in favor of the generic Imported Briar by the late 1930's. And that makes sense, because of the millions of blocks of briar handled in the factory each year, it would have become increasing more difficult to keep track of where each bowl came from.
4 digits began to be phased out in 1937, Any new lines that were added after that date like, Flame Grain, Gale, Meerlined, etc never had 4 digit shape numbers. But Drinkless which came in several finishes and stem type maybe have had the 4 digit number into the early 40's to help distinguish the variations.
I'm still sticking with 1931-1938 on the 7246.
www.tapatalk.com
kwguy
28111
Feb 13 '13#10
Rock Ambera stems were in use up until the 40's as I've seen Flame Grains with Ambera stems.
I think the Drinkless Kaywoodies may have had the KBB logo on the shank into the 40's but not on any other lines.
As for the briar designation, I've always been of the opinion that all other designations were dropped in favor of the generic Imported Briar by the late 1930's. And that makes sense, because of the millions of blocks of briar handled in the factory each year, it would have become increasing more difficult to keep track of where each bowl came from.
4 digits began to be phased out in 1937, Any new lines that were added after that date like, Flame Grain, Gale, Meerlined, etc never had 4 digit shape numbers. But Drinkless which came in several finishes and stem type maybe have had the 4 digit number into the early 40's to help distinguish the variations.
I'm still sticking with 1931-1938 on the 7246.
kaywoodie-Question about stem logos
OK so according to the collectors guide, still waiting for permission to use it here. Sometime between 1936 and 1947, the better pipes were marked wit
www.tapatalk.com
From pipephil.eu’s Flame Grain stamp/logo section (but it’s still the internet, so….):I’m bumping my question. Tell me if I’m annoying. I’m thinking that this was changed to “imported briar” in the latter 30s? Sorry. Someone is going to know.
“Period: 1937 - present
Early Flame Grains were stamped Flame Grain over top of Kaywoodie.
Prior to 1935 Kaywoodie pipes never were stamped "Imported Briar" which doesn't mean they systematicaly were after this date.
All the Flame Grains are stamped with a 2 digit code.”
This is such a sad looking pipe. I’m drawn to really sad looking pipes near death. Can I bring it back from its sickness and is it worth it? This is on eBay. I can’t make out the number but it is “aged Bruyere.”
I might give it a go. It’s a cheap 4-digit.
Aged Bruyere is the earlier stamp. Imported Briar came into use around 1936 - 7.
Unless it’s clearly burnout…you’d likely be able to fix that up just fine. It’d be a nice little project.
️There are lots of pipes in better shape but sometimes I’m drawn to a fixer-up-er - although, I should save my money for a K with a clover on the shank. That’s what I really need!Unless it’s clearly burnout…you’d likely be able to fix that up just fine. It’d be a nice little project.
Hey Folks:
Sean here. I was scrolling through the web doing research on Kaywoodies and stumbled across this thread, which prompted me to make an account on this site and throw my two cents into the forum. I’ve been collecting KWs for a while and have been active on the KW Facebook group in the past.
What really piqued my interest initially with this thread was the discussion of dating pipes, four digit pipes in particular.
I have some thoughts on this, and this will be a windy comment.
To start out of the gates with a bang: I believe the 1938 cutoff date for 4-digit stamping to be completely arbitrary.
Yes, roughly around that point when the Flame Grain was introduced, the two digit numbering system was beginning to be used (again) on some grades. Why? Well, the first two digits only pertain to a finish anyway. Flame Grains only came in one finish, as did Gales and Straight Grains. Which pipes had several finishes to choose from? Drinkless and Super-Grain (Thorn counted as its own Drinkless finish, and they got their own 74- prefix). Super-Grains are by far the most common 4-digit pipes encountered, and I know of three prefixes. 50- virgin finish, 51- “Miami brown”, and 55- banded (aluminum ferrule).
51- is prolific.
Now. Moving forward chronologically past our “cutoff date”, the first piece of evidence is from WWII. As many know, metal was rationed. Production of stingers wasn’t necessary for the war effort, so KW standardized push tenons for at least a couple years during the war.
Is it possible/likely that the existing prewar stock of stingers was used for the first couple years of the war? I would say so. By some point however, let’s say 1943 just to field a guess, Super-Grains, Hand-Made Super-Grains, Flame Grains, clear on up to Straight Grains were rolling out of the factory with patriotic push tenons. What became of the $3.50 Drinkless? No sense calling a pipe Drinkless if there’s no stinger! Just a “Kaywoodie” stamp will suffice for the duration. Examples of these non-Drinkless $3.50 pipes are relatively rare and stump collectors.
Wartime push tenon pipes can easily be identified by detail and nomenclature. The most obvious detail: no metal. The second most obvious detail is the pronounced step down in diameter of the vulcanite on the tenon, right at the end of the tenon. Earlier push tenon Kaywoodies and “export” examples do not have this step, at least none that I have seen. I know of no other push tenon KWs with this specific, minor detail. I have personally owned several wartime Hand-Made Super-Grains and one smooth Super-Grain with this stepped tenon, and have seen countless others online. On to nomenclature: an “imported briar” stamp on the passenger side of the pipe is a detail that rules out any time before the late ‘30s or after the early ‘50s. The real kicker here is that many people, myself included, own wartime examples that are stamped with four digits. I’ve seen enough of these now to know that pipes were being sold until the end of WWII with four digit shape stamps. Super-Grains with these details come up from time to time, almost always 51- prefix, and rarely a 77- prefix non-Drinkless just-plain-Kaywoodie.
How much farther though? Well, we know for a fact that the Thorn was phased out in favor of the new Relief Grain sometime around 1946. The Drinkless; the Standard in the same timeframe. Whole new lines with only one finish choice, it is logical to stamp only the two digits of the shape.
Back to Super-Grains, however.
In 1948, Kaywoodie ran a series of ads in Colliers showing off their newest shapes. Black and white, tall aspect ratio with a big ol’ briar burl/bush and the advertised pipe standing vertically. You’ve probably seen these ads before. The pipes featured are explicitly advertised as new shapes and I have found nothing to suggest that was just marketing hype. These would include, but are not limited to, the 32C squat bulldog, 28C hex panel apple, and 23C two panel author. These ads can be found easily online, particularly cut out and sold on ebay. For this reason, I won’t steal screenshots and will leave it up to any invested readers to seek them out (sorry for the heavy burden of proof).
Once you’re satisfied, do a quick google search for any of those shape numbers, but add the 51- prefix to them. You’ll see them. A lot of you probably even have one or two in your collection (I had a beautiful 5128C that I restored and gifted to my dad for Father’s Day).
Four digits on new 1948 models, models that to my knowledge, were never offered prewar, let alone pre 1938. I checked the catalogs too.
The following evidence isn’t quantitative, but it’s noteworthy. Ever notice how many unsmoked, NIB Super-Grains came up for sale on ebay a few years ago? Seems like back around 2021-‘22 there was a new one every week. Many were 4 digit Super-Grains, complete with box, flyer, and sock. Never fired. Ever notice how almost all of the flyers touted “98 years of pipe making experience”? As we all know, it all started in 1851. 98 years after was 1949.
Did our beloved 4-digit pipes almost make it into the 1950s? It’s very possible. I have heard explanations for the wartime examples, that they were simply prewar stock stummels getting pushed out the door later on. That’s possible.
Postwar shapes, however, that didn’t exist prior, commonly found with four digits? That’s a little harder to ignore.
Anyway, some food for thought on an early Friday morning. If you have anything to add or any points of contention, I am all ears.
I have more thoughts on stinger dating that I’ll share at a later date (hint: patent numbers =/= prewar either).
If you made it this far, you are a nut. Like me.
Sean here. I was scrolling through the web doing research on Kaywoodies and stumbled across this thread, which prompted me to make an account on this site and throw my two cents into the forum. I’ve been collecting KWs for a while and have been active on the KW Facebook group in the past.
What really piqued my interest initially with this thread was the discussion of dating pipes, four digit pipes in particular.
I have some thoughts on this, and this will be a windy comment.
To start out of the gates with a bang: I believe the 1938 cutoff date for 4-digit stamping to be completely arbitrary.
Yes, roughly around that point when the Flame Grain was introduced, the two digit numbering system was beginning to be used (again) on some grades. Why? Well, the first two digits only pertain to a finish anyway. Flame Grains only came in one finish, as did Gales and Straight Grains. Which pipes had several finishes to choose from? Drinkless and Super-Grain (Thorn counted as its own Drinkless finish, and they got their own 74- prefix). Super-Grains are by far the most common 4-digit pipes encountered, and I know of three prefixes. 50- virgin finish, 51- “Miami brown”, and 55- banded (aluminum ferrule).
51- is prolific.
Now. Moving forward chronologically past our “cutoff date”, the first piece of evidence is from WWII. As many know, metal was rationed. Production of stingers wasn’t necessary for the war effort, so KW standardized push tenons for at least a couple years during the war.
Is it possible/likely that the existing prewar stock of stingers was used for the first couple years of the war? I would say so. By some point however, let’s say 1943 just to field a guess, Super-Grains, Hand-Made Super-Grains, Flame Grains, clear on up to Straight Grains were rolling out of the factory with patriotic push tenons. What became of the $3.50 Drinkless? No sense calling a pipe Drinkless if there’s no stinger! Just a “Kaywoodie” stamp will suffice for the duration. Examples of these non-Drinkless $3.50 pipes are relatively rare and stump collectors.
Wartime push tenon pipes can easily be identified by detail and nomenclature. The most obvious detail: no metal. The second most obvious detail is the pronounced step down in diameter of the vulcanite on the tenon, right at the end of the tenon. Earlier push tenon Kaywoodies and “export” examples do not have this step, at least none that I have seen. I know of no other push tenon KWs with this specific, minor detail. I have personally owned several wartime Hand-Made Super-Grains and one smooth Super-Grain with this stepped tenon, and have seen countless others online. On to nomenclature: an “imported briar” stamp on the passenger side of the pipe is a detail that rules out any time before the late ‘30s or after the early ‘50s. The real kicker here is that many people, myself included, own wartime examples that are stamped with four digits. I’ve seen enough of these now to know that pipes were being sold until the end of WWII with four digit shape stamps. Super-Grains with these details come up from time to time, almost always 51- prefix, and rarely a 77- prefix non-Drinkless just-plain-Kaywoodie.
How much farther though? Well, we know for a fact that the Thorn was phased out in favor of the new Relief Grain sometime around 1946. The Drinkless; the Standard in the same timeframe. Whole new lines with only one finish choice, it is logical to stamp only the two digits of the shape.
Back to Super-Grains, however.
In 1948, Kaywoodie ran a series of ads in Colliers showing off their newest shapes. Black and white, tall aspect ratio with a big ol’ briar burl/bush and the advertised pipe standing vertically. You’ve probably seen these ads before. The pipes featured are explicitly advertised as new shapes and I have found nothing to suggest that was just marketing hype. These would include, but are not limited to, the 32C squat bulldog, 28C hex panel apple, and 23C two panel author. These ads can be found easily online, particularly cut out and sold on ebay. For this reason, I won’t steal screenshots and will leave it up to any invested readers to seek them out (sorry for the heavy burden of proof).
Once you’re satisfied, do a quick google search for any of those shape numbers, but add the 51- prefix to them. You’ll see them. A lot of you probably even have one or two in your collection (I had a beautiful 5128C that I restored and gifted to my dad for Father’s Day).
Four digits on new 1948 models, models that to my knowledge, were never offered prewar, let alone pre 1938. I checked the catalogs too.
The following evidence isn’t quantitative, but it’s noteworthy. Ever notice how many unsmoked, NIB Super-Grains came up for sale on ebay a few years ago? Seems like back around 2021-‘22 there was a new one every week. Many were 4 digit Super-Grains, complete with box, flyer, and sock. Never fired. Ever notice how almost all of the flyers touted “98 years of pipe making experience”? As we all know, it all started in 1851. 98 years after was 1949.
Did our beloved 4-digit pipes almost make it into the 1950s? It’s very possible. I have heard explanations for the wartime examples, that they were simply prewar stock stummels getting pushed out the door later on. That’s possible.
Postwar shapes, however, that didn’t exist prior, commonly found with four digits? That’s a little harder to ignore.
Anyway, some food for thought on an early Friday morning. If you have anything to add or any points of contention, I am all ears.
I have more thoughts on stinger dating that I’ll share at a later date (hint: patent numbers =/= prewar either).
If you made it this far, you are a nut. Like me.
Welcome and thank you, I look forward to the next instalment.
There's plent of evidence to suggest that some four digit shape numbers lasted through the war. But that doesn't mean they didn't start phasing them out in 39. I've owned and seen plenty of post 1939 pipes with four digit numbers, things at the factory were very chaotic during the war years with material shortages and they got by any way they could.
I would like to know more about these stinger patent numbers though, I've never seen a stinger with a patent number. Got a picture of one of these?
I have a Kaywoodie from a matched grain set with a reg number on it 