Show Off Your Kaywoodie Pipes

[Birddog66]

My shank logo’s also have a reg No as does the rest of the MG set (213598)

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I have a Kaywoodie from a matched grain set with a reg number on it View attachment 286883

Yep, thats a trademark registration, not a patent.

 

[Birddog66]

Yep, thats a trademark registration, not a patent.

The only patent No on a stinger that I can think of is on my Dunkan’s Zoie and that’s hallmarked silver.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Hey Folks:

Sean here. I was scrolling through the web doing research on Kaywoodies and stumbled across this thread, which prompted me to make an account on this site and throw my two cents into the forum. I’ve been collecting KWs for a while and have been active on the KW Facebook group in the past.
What really piqued my interest initially with this thread was the discussion of dating pipes, four digit pipes in particular.
I have some thoughts on this, and this will be a windy comment.

To start out of the gates with a bang: I believe the 1938 cutoff date for 4-digit stamping to be completely arbitrary.

Yes, roughly around that point when the Flame Grain was introduced, the two digit numbering system was beginning to be used (again) on some grades. Why? Well, the first two digits only pertain to a finish anyway. Flame Grains only came in one finish, as did Gales and Straight Grains. Which pipes had several finishes to choose from? Drinkless and Super-Grain (Thorn counted as its own Drinkless finish, and they got their own 74- prefix). Super-Grains are by far the most common 4-digit pipes encountered, and I know of three prefixes. 50- virgin finish, 51- “Miami brown”, and 55- banded (aluminum ferrule).
51- is prolific.

Now. Moving forward chronologically past our “cutoff date”, the first piece of evidence is from WWII. As many know, metal was rationed. Production of stingers wasn’t necessary for the war effort, so KW standardized push tenons for at least a couple years during the war.
Is it possible/likely that the existing prewar stock of stingers was used for the first couple years of the war? I would say so. By some point however, let’s say 1943 just to field a guess, Super-Grains, Hand-Made Super-Grains, Flame Grains, clear on up to Straight Grains were rolling out of the factory with patriotic push tenons. What became of the $3.50 Drinkless? No sense calling a pipe Drinkless if there’s no stinger! Just a “Kaywoodie” stamp will suffice for the duration. Examples of these non-Drinkless $3.50 pipes are relatively rare and stump collectors.
Wartime push tenon pipes can easily be identified by detail and nomenclature. The most obvious detail: no metal. The second most obvious detail is the pronounced step down in diameter of the vulcanite on the tenon, right at the end of the tenon. Earlier push tenon Kaywoodies and “export” examples do not have this step, at least none that I have seen. I know of no other push tenon KWs with this specific, minor detail. I have personally owned several wartime Hand-Made Super-Grains and one smooth Super-Grain with this stepped tenon, and have seen countless others online. On to nomenclature: an “imported briar” stamp on the passenger side of the pipe is a detail that rules out any time before the late ‘30s or after the early ‘50s. The real kicker here is that many people, myself included, own wartime examples that are stamped with four digits. I’ve seen enough of these now to know that pipes were being sold until the end of WWII with four digit shape stamps. Super-Grains with these details come up from time to time, almost always 51- prefix, and rarely a 77- prefix non-Drinkless just-plain-Kaywoodie.

How much farther though? Well, we know for a fact that the Thorn was phased out in favor of the new Relief Grain sometime around 1946. The Drinkless; the Standard in the same timeframe. Whole new lines with only one finish choice, it is logical to stamp only the two digits of the shape.

Back to Super-Grains, however.
In 1948, Kaywoodie ran a series of ads in Colliers showing off their newest shapes. Black and white, tall aspect ratio with a big ol’ briar burl/bush and the advertised pipe standing vertically. You’ve probably seen these ads before. The pipes featured are explicitly advertised as new shapes and I have found nothing to suggest that was just marketing hype. These would include, but are not limited to, the 32C squat bulldog, 28C hex panel apple, and 23C two panel author. These ads can be found easily online, particularly cut out and sold on ebay. For this reason, I won’t steal screenshots and will leave it up to any invested readers to seek them out (sorry for the heavy burden of proof).

Once you’re satisfied, do a quick google search for any of those shape numbers, but add the 51- prefix to them. You’ll see them. A lot of you probably even have one or two in your collection (I had a beautiful 5128C that I restored and gifted to my dad for Father’s Day).
Four digits on new 1948 models, models that to my knowledge, were never offered prewar, let alone pre 1938. I checked the catalogs too.

The following evidence isn’t quantitative, but it’s noteworthy. Ever notice how many unsmoked, NIB Super-Grains came up for sale on ebay a few years ago? Seems like back around 2021-‘22 there was a new one every week. Many were 4 digit Super-Grains, complete with box, flyer, and sock. Never fired. Ever notice how almost all of the flyers touted “98 years of pipe making experience”? As we all know, it all started in 1851. 98 years after was 1949.

Did our beloved 4-digit pipes almost make it into the 1950s? It’s very possible. I have heard explanations for the wartime examples, that they were simply prewar stock stummels getting pushed out the door later on. That’s possible.
Postwar shapes, however, that didn’t exist prior, commonly found with four digits? That’s a little harder to ignore.


Anyway, some food for thought on an early Friday morning. If you have anything to add or any points of contention, I am all ears.
I have more thoughts on stinger dating that I’ll share at a later date (hint: patent numbers =/= prewar either).

If you made it this far, you are a nut. Like me.

Sean, I’m glad you made it over here and joined. There are quite a few knowledable KW nerds here, and you bring a great deal info.

Our discussion of the wartime push tenon pipes helped me come to the conclusion that my little FlameGrain Meerschaum 40 is such an example.
I don’t think we discussed the stepped tenon on FB, but i believe it to be a good example of what you’re talking about:

I would like to know more about these stinger patent numbers though, I've never seen a stinger with a patent number. Got a picture of one of these?

My FlameGrain Meerscham 09B has a skinny stinger with a large ball, and a very hard to capture (with a cellphone and shaky hands) registration number (or what’s left of one) under the “DRINKLESS” on its stinger:

The 09B was very cheap win at auction, because it had the frozen mortise fixture problem. I’m happy to have been able to correct that without creating worse damage than it already showed.

@RustiePyles CPG -I missed your post on the trademark v. patent number.

 

[Birddog66]

My Straight Grain is a push tenon but it’s not stepped like those mentioned from WWII, there’s no stinger either of evidence that it ever had one. It’s my belief is that it’s a custom model, I have seen in their catalogue’s that they were very open to making their higher end pipes like the strain and birdseye grain to a particular smokers preference. As some stingers, especially those on push tenon pipes, really bug me I can understand someone wanting an expensive pipe made to their own specifications - they were sold at the time for a much higher price than Dunhill pipes in the US.
As you can see the inside is bevelled, not something you would expect if a stinger had been originally included.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

My Straight Grain is a push tenon but it’s not stepped like those mentioned from WWII, there’s no stinger either of evidence that it ever had one. It’s my belief is that it’s a custom model, I have seen in their catalogue’s that they were very open to making their higher end pipes like the strain and birdseye grain to a particular smokers preference. As some stingers, especially those on push tenon pipes, really bug me I can understand someone wanting an expensive pipe made to their own specifications - they were sold at the time for a much higher price than Dunhill pipes in the US. View attachment 286972
As you can see the inside is bevelled, not something you would expect if a stinger had been originally included.

Is that an "export" model? I wouldn't put to much stock in the funneled tenon. I know nearly every pipe I've ever sold has had a funneled tenon and none of them came to me that way. A LOT of estate sellers and restorers will funnel the tenon as part of a resto/tune up. So it's hard to say if it left the factory that way.

 

[Birddog66]

Is that an "export" model? I wouldn't put to much stock in the funneled tenon. I know nearly every pipe I've ever sold has had a funneled tenon and none of them came to me that way. A LOT of estate sellers and restorers will funnel the tenon as part of a resto/tune up. So it's hard to say if it left the factory that way.

No it’s a US purchase, I have a London made Straight and it’s a very different pipe, the quality is nothing like this one and it’s a screw in with stinger. I think the London made K’s were just doing their own thing from what I’ve made out.

 

[Birddog66]

I should also state that my US Straight was unsmoked when I got it so there’s no restoration involved. It’s quite an oddity

 

[revnatorade]

I've got this Kaywoodie Standard numbler 14 and two holes on the drinkless stinger. I'm trying to figure out how old it is. I'm thinking 1930's but cant tell for sure. If anyone knows please let me know.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I've got this Kaywoodie Standard numbler 14 and two holes on the drinkless stinger. I'm trying to figure out how old it is. I'm thinking 1930's but cant tell for sure. If anyone knows please let me know. View attachment 290463View attachment 290464View attachment 290462

That's what's referred to as a 4 hole stinger. Does the stinger have anything stamped on it? If it's a two digit shape number its later in the 4 hole era, late 30's into the 40's.

 

[Sobrbiker]

@RustiePyles CPG beat me to it.
Nice pipe.

 

[revnatorade]

That's what's referred to as a 4 hole stinger. Does the stinger have anything stamped on it? If it's a two digit shape number its later in the 4 hole era, late 30's into the 40's.

Thanks for the clarification. If it does have a stamo I sure cant see it.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Thanks for the clarification. If it does have a stamo I sure cant see it.

If the stinger is stamped "Drinkless" that puts closer to the late 30's than the early 40's.

 

[revnatorade]

If the stinger is stamped "Drinkless" that puts closer to the late 30's than the early 40's.

Thanks. I don't see any markings on it. They could have been worn down. It's all I could do to find a hint of the word Standard on the shank.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I just cleaned up this tiny pipe I received from @Birddog66 from across the pond today (thank you sir!!). Cleaned it thoroughly and flame raised, sanded/polished stem. Can’t wait to try it out after letting it rest from its bath!


I’m stumped on it, both model and age…
It’s a tiny little guy (chamber is .63” wide by .92” deep) pipe length is 4 5/8”. There’s no shape number, stamped “DRINKLESS” over “KAYWOODIE”, “IMPORTED BRIAR”, 4 hole stinger with “DRINKLESS” over reg number on shank. Elongated clover on top of stem.
As received:


After a little work:

Any speculation on shape/model/age welcomed!

 

[didimauw]

I just cleaned up this tiny pipe I received from @Birddog66 from across the pond today (thank you sir!!). Cleaned it thoroughly and flame raised, sanded/polished stem. Can’t wait to try it out after letting it rest from its bath!


I’m stumped on it, both model and age…
It’s a tiny little guy (chamber is .63” wide by .92” deep) pipe length is 4 5/8”. There’s no shape number, stamped “DRINKLESS” over “KAYWOODIE”, “IMPORTED BRIAR”, 4 hole stinger with “DRINKLESS” over reg number on shank. Elongated clover on top of stem.
As received:
View attachment 291767View attachment 291766View attachment 291765

After a little work:View attachment 291775View attachment 291768

Any speculation on shape/model/age welcomed!

Wow that's much better looking now,!

 

[Sobrbiker]

Wow that's much better looking now,!

Thank you sir, I do a little georged/a little reborn pipes method mix.

 

[Birddog66]

I just cleaned up this tiny pipe I received from @Birddog66 from across the pond today (thank you sir!!). Cleaned it thoroughly and flame raised, sanded/polished stem. Can’t wait to try it out after letting it rest from its bath!


I’m stumped on it, both model and age…
It’s a tiny little guy (chamber is .63” wide by .92” deep) pipe length is 4 5/8”. There’s no shape number, stamped “DRINKLESS” over “KAYWOODIE”, “IMPORTED BRIAR”, 4 hole stinger with “DRINKLESS” over reg number on shank. Elongated clover on top of stem.
As received:
View attachment 291767View attachment 291766View attachment 291765

After a little work:View attachment 291775View attachment 291768

Any speculation on shape/model/age welcomed!

You did a great job there, it looks really good.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I just cleaned up this tiny pipe I received from @Birddog66 from across the pond today (thank you sir!!). Cleaned it thoroughly and flame raised, sanded/polished stem. Can’t wait to try it out after letting it rest from its bath!


I’m stumped on it, both model and age…
It’s a tiny little guy (chamber is .63” wide by .92” deep) pipe length is 4 5/8”. There’s no shape number, stamped “DRINKLESS” over “KAYWOODIE”, “IMPORTED BRIAR”, 4 hole stinger with “DRINKLESS” over reg number on shank. Elongated clover on top of stem.
As received:
View attachment 291767View attachment 291766View attachment 291765

After a little work:View attachment 291775View attachment 291768

Any speculation on shape/model/age welcomed!

I'd say it's probably early 30's

 

[scottbtdmb]

Here’s my “drinkless” Kaywoodie (8782), likely late 30’s/early 40’s. This pipe has a particular sentimental value to me, as it was featured in the save-a-date that my wife and I sent out back in 2014 when we announced our engagement!