Science of Plume/Bloom/Crystals on Tobacco

[cshubhra]

If the hypothesis is it is a mixture of inorganic salts then it can be tested fairly easily in a high school laboratory or even a home laboratory for cations and anions.

Without referring to google - just trusting my memory from 30 years ago

1. Cation group can be confirmed by a structured group test. Unfortunately I forgot the procedure but will come back fairly easily with google or my sons chemistry book
2. Potassium can be confirmed by a flame test. Just put a pinch in a platinum wire and burn it in your kitchen gas flame. Potassium turns the flame pink
3. Nitrate ions can be confirmed by a ring test (Need to google on how to do it)

The tests #3 and #2 are confirmation tests. #1 is a classification test for cations. I forgot what was a classification test for anions.

I am not interested to go down that rabbit hole though.

 

[ThermionicScott]

I'm sure there are textbooks in the Duke University library on this stuff, or tobacco company research tucked away in their secret archives. There is no way that "stuff growing on production tobacco" has not been of interest to characterize and treat.

Internet forums just aren't a good way to get to that information.

 

[Peter Turbo]

Or someone here possibly has the data or link to the data to share the science which saves me time researching. Takes me seconds to post this. If you don’t like seeing the topic feel free to move on.

No one has the data your looking for (especially on this forum), if they did this issue would have been laid to rest long ago and you wouldn't have had to make a thread about it.

 

[jpmcwjr]

No issue, no matter how learnedly discussed, has ever been laid to rest at PM.

 

[craig61a]

No issue, no matter how learnedly discussed, has ever been laid to rest at PM.

True dat…

 

[greeneyes]

I'm sure there are textbooks in the Duke University library on this stuff, or tobacco company research tucked away in their secret archives. There is no way that "stuff growing on production tobacco" has not been of interest to characterize and treat.

Internet forums just aren't a good way to get to that information.

I think this is the point I'm attempting to make. This isn't the science of "stuff growing on your tobacco" because it's not stuff growing on your tobacco. It's stuff the blender added to the tobacco that finnicky smokers worry might be contamination. I'm sure there are books and libraries full of research on the different fungi and bacteria that flourish on tobacco leaf.

What doesn't exist in a University library is an Encyclopedia of Odd Misidentified Growths on Processed Pipe Tobacco with an epilogue reassuring you that what you're seeing is really just crystallized fruit syrup that Gawith added before steaming the leaf. There's no science here. What you see is the stuff the blenders put into the tobacco!

 

[cshubhra]

If the working hypothesis is sugar, then it can also be easily tested using high school chemistry knowledge.

However, this test is kind of difficult to set up, given the fact we already know that pipe tobacco contains sugar. The plume needs to be isolated very carefully from the tobacco

 

[craig61a]

What you see is the stuff the blenders put into the tobacco!

What you see is the minerals absorbed by the plant while it was growing…

 

[greeneyes]

What you see is the minerals absorbed by the plant while it was growing…

Could be. But that begs the question why we don't see such 'growths' in bags of minimally processed tobaccos like the roll-your-own types such as Gambler. But it certainly could be.

 

[craig61a]

Could be. But that begs the question why we don't see such 'growths' in bags of minimally processed tobaccos like the roll-your-own types such as Gambler. But it certainly could be.

How the tobacco is processed does not necessarily lead one to the conclusion that the supposed additives, if there are any, would lead to the formation of crystalline structures. Heat, steam, pressure might cause changes in the chemical makeup of the minerals that promote crystallization over time that do not occur in lesser processed tobacco. May be also that the African and Middle Eastern tobaccos used by GH&Co. are more likely to exhibit this type of behavior.

In any case, whatever they are, the crystals indicate the tobacco has some age on it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[shermnatman]

... And now, I know the perfect gift to mail to the OP @Val for his upcoming birthday in July!!!



OF COURSE... In the off-chance that @Val doesn't appreciate my sense of humor when the 'Mysterious and Unexpected Gift from an Unnamed Stranger' arrives on his doorstep and is opened on Fourth of July Morning, as part of the packing materials used to ship the Home Chemistry Set in, I will 'Accidentally' drop within, one crumbled-up Dry Cleaning bill, along with an old Gasoline Service Station receipt for him to 'Conveniently' find therein...

... of which both will be clearly made-out in the name of our dear forum-pal, @cshubhra

That should "light-up" this forum thread with some wildly unfounded accusations and insulting fireworks flying back-and-forth in a MOST ENTERTAINING MANNER... AND, get this thread really cooking come this summer!



It's just the way my mind works... What can I say? - Sherm Natman

 

[ThermionicScott]

I think this is the point I'm attempting to make. This isn't the science of "stuff growing on your tobacco" because it's not stuff growing on your tobacco. It's stuff the blender added to the tobacco that finnicky smokers worry might be contamination. I'm sure there are books and libraries full of research on the different fungi and bacteria that flourish on tobacco leaf.

What doesn't exist in a University library is an Encyclopedia of Odd Misidentified Growths on Processed Pipe Tobacco...

Well, I could conceive of any of these things being researched, back when there would have been academic and industry support for it. If a particular fungus or bacterium or mineral formation improved nicotine delivery or flavor, I'd think they would want to know all about it and get an advantage over their competitors! Just because we aren't exactly tripping over those reports on the way to the hardware store, doesn't mean there wasn't once high-level interest in these things.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Interesting , if it’s potassium nitrate (ironically the main component of gunpowder ) then surely a lab would be able to ascertain its components perhaps using a spectrometer. Of course it would cost a fortune but would be interesting to find out…

This could explain the tobacconite explosions.

 

[greeneyes]

I think if we can admit that aging tobacco wasn't even "a thing" until recently, it makes the idea of research into weird things growing on old tobacco somewhat of a moot point.

 

[cshubhra]

By the way, the color of Pottasium ion in a flame test is Lilac and not pink as I mentioned earlier. The color of Potassium was bugging me, so I did do a google search

 

[AJL67]

not showing up as good under lights in the house if i get motivated tomorrow I’ll do it out in the sun where you can see the “stripper glitter”. These are late 1960s LFDC Selectos, they all have it at some level. Just shit crystallized after decades, it’s rare to find it, in the sun they sparkle like crazy, it’s more of a novelty to me than anything else.

You can barely see it under these lights. But if you look you can see a sparkle now and then and no i won’t be cutting one open. Video at the link.

Edit: Yah def need a better video this doesn't do it justice at all.

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[shermnatman]

You know, all this talk of Chemistry reminds me of when I was awarded my Boy Scout Merit Badge for Chemistry during the summer I turned 13.


At first, didn't recognize what it was for.

Based on the odd and poorly-rendered artwork used, I was totally confused and I thought they were giving me an award for surviving - with no remarkable injury - my very first ever case of the teenage blueballs. - Sherm Natman

 

[Doctor Chopper]

not showing up as good under lights in the house if i get motivated tomorrow I’ll do it out in the sun where you can see the “stripper glitter”. These are late 1960s LFDC Selectos, they all have it at some level. Just shit crystallized after decades, it’s rare to find it, in the sun they sparkle like crazy, it’s more of a novelty to me than anything else.

You can barely see it under these lights. But if you look you can see a sparkle now and then and no i won’t be cutting one open. Video at the link.

Edit: Yah def need a better video this doesn't do it justice at all.

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View attachment 204844

Not sure if you are getting old, or just smoked too much 'plume', but any dude knows there are better ways to study 'Stripper Glitter' than opening cigars in your backyard.

 

[AppalachianPipe92]

Not if you actually read source material. I don't do it often, but fact based science exists.

-dobbs

Fact based science is almost indistinguishable these days, at least involving controversial topics. Too many hands in too many pockets with agendas to push.
I present studies to my friend who are doctors and just listen to them. If they're not taking something, neither am I - except for pipes.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

Always find this topic to be interesting, because you get so many varying opinions on the subject.

I took chemistry in high school and other sciences classes in college over 25 years ago, so no, I'm no expert. What I do know is this; if you want to find favor with something you'll find a research paper or some type of science journal that will support your view while the guy that opposes it will also find a research paper or science journal to support his view. Both will state facts and hypothesis to make their argument. It doesn't mean either is right or wrong. Science changes all the time, sometimes what we believed 20 years ago, isn't correct anymore and vice-versa. Hell, scientists are still trying to sort out if Pluto is a planet or not. LOL

Mold is a fungal growth that forms and spreads on various kinds of damp or decaying organic matter. People consume fungi regularly when eating, as some foods are made with fungi, and others develop mold/fungi after being processed. Cheese anyone? Consuming large amounts of fungi or mold can lead to health issues though, so eat wisely. Stay away from green bread. LOL

My view on mold/plume is this. If its blue or green, and/or fuzzy looking then I'm not smoking it. If it's white and looks like crystals, then I will enjoy. Sometimes the decision is easy to make and other times I will have to examine the cigar or pipe tobacco a little better to make a decision.