Purchase of New Dunhill (Whitespot) Concerns and Questions

[Peter Peachfuzz]

There are plenty of other companies that make classic shapes that will smoke as good or better than a Dunhill. Do you want to overpay on an item for status? What other reasons do you have for wanting a Dunhill?

once you get it and realize it’s not really any better than any other pipe you might have buyer’s remorse.

Cheaper cars will get you where you want to go just fine but wouldn't you rather take the Porsche?

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

After reading these posts mulling on it, one clarification/observation:

While yes, any pipe, factory pipes in particular perhaps, can be a dud, I think there is a reasonable expectation that a Dunhill factory (or semi-factory) pipe that costs 2x or 3x a top of the line Savinelli, Pete etc should NOT be subject to any major drilling or other defects. And a $900 artisan pipe should be perfect and never get past the artist's personal QC with drilling or other problems.

I think that's what's bothering me. If I spend $150 or $200 on a nice Sav, I still expect very consistent quality. But a pipe with the reputation and price of Dunhill -- I'd expect no or virtually no construction defects, ever. And from what I'm reading that doesn't seem to be the case. Which is why I was wondering whether I should only buy one I can inspect, as to perhaps taking the risk with a less expensive pipe.

Still chewing on it,

If Al Pascia, Bollito, or Corti have a new White Spot in stock that appeals to you, email them and ask specific questions about the points that are important to you. Every single one of these shops has knowledgeable owners/managers, and if you ask “ “are there any gaps in the fit between the stem and shank.?” Will it pass a pipe cleaner.?” “Where is the draft hole in relation to the dead center bottom of the bowl?” or other questions that are material to you, you will get an honest answer. These three sites are forum sponsors. I have found the same honesty at James Barber, which has a huge Dunhill selection at good prices because the UK £ is in the ditch against the $ and the €, but I have not dealt with them recently and they are not a forum sponsor.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Cheaper cars will get you where you want to go just fine but wouldn't you rather take the Porsche?

If it's a Singer? Sure. If it's just a roll of the dice on ANY of the Porsches out in the world? I'd rather take something cheap and reliable.

Especially if it's something recent like a Macan? ?

After reading these posts mulling on it, one clarification/observation:

While yes, any pipe, factory pipes in particular perhaps, can be a dud, I think there is a reasonable expectation that a Dunhill factory (or semi-factory) pipe that costs 2x or 3x a top of the line Savinelli, Pete etc should NOT be subject to any major drilling or other defects. And a $900 artisan pipe should be perfect and never get past the artist's personal QC with drilling or other problems.

I think that's what's bothering me. If I spend $150 or $200 on a nice Sav, I still expect very consistent quality. But a pipe with the reputation and price of Dunhill -- I'd expect no or virtually no construction defects, ever. And from what I'm reading that doesn't seem to be the case. Which is why I was wondering whether I should only buy one I can inspect, as to perhaps taking the risk with a less expensive pipe.

Still chewing on it,

A few teeth to help you chew:

Dunhill (the White Spot) has excellent customer service. If you do receive a pipe that's not up to your standards, it will be remedied and done right by you: be that a return, replace, or whatever; I don't think you'll be dissatisfied there.

That said, these new "the White Spot" pipes are just about above average. Especially if you veer towards their lower tier offerings. Unlike my experience with say Castello, I've found there to be a much larger variance between higher/lower grade TWS pipes. Pipes in the $250-$500 range can be a crap shoot, which is slightly ridiculous.

Also, if you're just in the market for a clench-able English Canadian (or whatever) you're probably better off getting an artisan commission to your exact specifications for 50-80% of a new Dunhill. Chris Askwith is the first English name to come to mind.

 

[Peter Peachfuzz]

To OP, you will go through this with every pipe you buy until you get a Dunhill. I have bought from Barber & Al Pascia with equal satisfaction. Both have a comment type section on their purchase form. I always ask them to check the pipe closely, drilling, stem, etc.. because I'm picky and it's a pita for both of us if I return the pipe.

 

[tkcolo]

I have six dunhills. The three oldest (50s & 60s) are my best pipes, but the newer three (80s, 90s) are near the bottom. The older pipes have better vulcanite and craggier blasts. They have wide oval stems that sit flat, and they are all under 1oz. The newer ones are all chunky, with weird stems.

I take issue with almost every pipe I own, including Castello, Ashton, Savs, Petes, BW, etc. Those older Duns are perfect to me, but they hit my sweet spots. Perfect clenchers. And I did not pay more than $150 for any of them.

It's all personal preference though. I just don't like heavy pipes.

 

[trouttimes]

Boy this is lively! Wait, wait let me refill my drink.

 

[ssjones]

If you really want a Dunhill, buy an estate Dunhill.
A critical eye can save you hundreds of dollars and they are already broken in!

Wow, how did I miss this four page thread?

I'm with dongiles, particularly in today's estate market.

I've had Dunhills from nearly every era, including the White Spot era. There are numerous threads here on the White Spot pipes and their value. My experience (Cumberland Bulldog) was that it was an excellent pipe, particularly the stem and button. In contrast with a similar era Castello bulldog, the White Spot stem work was simply far better than the Italian stallion. But, it was sold, as I always reach for a vintage Dunhill (so was the Castello with its fat button). The resale value is zilch, so if you buy one, be prepared to hang onto it.

 

[sablebrush52]

to me, this shows why companies brand. ^^^^

A Dunhill Billiard is more classicly shaped than another brand's Billiard?

I can understand the argument. Look at any billiard made by different makers and you will see subtle differences in the shaping. There are many different approaches to shaping a specific genre of pipe. Dunhill, in the early days, looked to top quality French makers for inspiration. For example, the 120 is originally a Genod design. So I think that it's fair to say that many of Dunhill's shapes hew to the classical French canon, as do many of Comoy's and GBD.

After all is said and done, it comes down to a personal preference. I used to smoke Dunhills. Then I found other makes that I liked better. I love my Barlings. They provide me with great smokes, and so do my Comoys, Sasienis, Kaywoodies, Von Ercks, Piersels, Nordings, Brebbias, Castellos, Leeds era Ben Wades, etc, etc.

Excepting for personal preference, there is no one best pipe maker.

 

[nick24601]

As someone said upthread, Dunhill doesn't make their pipes anymore. If you want something fancy that smokes differently I'd recommend either a Castello or a Baki meerschaum. There's a reason modern Dunhills have a horrible resale value.

People have been talking grief about Dunhill since 1920,

"Smoking as a fine art" by A. A. Milne

essays.quotidiana.org

 

[danish]

As someone said upthread, Dunhill doesn't make their pipes anymore. If you want something fancy that smokes differently I'd recommend either a Castello or a Baki meerschaum. There's a reason modern Dunhills have a horrible resale value.

People have been talking grief about Dunhill since 1920,

"Smoking as a fine art" by A. A. Milne

essays.quotidiana.org

Milne apparently had a good imagination...People have always been judging other people’s habits and preferences and loved to put people types into boxes. To generalize who buys mark XYZ, whether cars or pipes. Anecdotal but entertaining, perhaps.

 

[nick24601]

Milne apparently had a good imagination...People have always been judging other people’s habits and preferences and loved to put people types into boxes. To generalize who buys mark XYZ, whether cars or pipes. Anecdotal but entertaining, perhaps.

Its just a fun example of how we used to troll one another back in the 20's v. this thread in the now.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Its just a fun example of how we used to troll one another back in the 20's v. this thread in the now.

Why troll about gardening implements?

 

[sisyphus]

as always the usual suspects pipe in with misinformation and a bias against Dunhill. This topic has been covered ad nauseum here and elsewhere. There is a wealth of good information from people like Al and myself, even Dave who I don't particularly care for but he knows what he's talking about, regarding the quality of Dunhill pipes through the decades.

So filtering out the noise, the important criteria is this: if ANY pipe meets your standards for smoking qualities, finishing, and legacy, buy it and don't give a damn what the keyboard jockeys have to say. You're buying pipes for your approval, not some pseudo-anonymous know it all on a web forum.

 

[sisyphus]

A Dunhill Billiard is more classicly shaped than another brand's Billiard?

nonsense, everyone knows that the Orlik shape 20 is the pinnacle of the English billiard

 

[ron123]

as always the usual suspects pipe in with misinformation and a bias against Dunhill. This topic has been covered ad nauseum here and elsewhere. There is a wealth of good information from people like Al and myself, even Dave who I don't particularly care for but he knows what he's talking about, regarding the quality of Dunhill pipes through the decades.

So filtering out the noise, the important criteria is this: if ANY pipe meets your standards for smoking qualities, finishing, and legacy, buy it and don't give a damn what the keyboard jockeys have to say. You're buying pipes for your approval, not some pseudo-anonymous know it all on a web forum.

Hence my signature. Fuck ‘em LOL.

The difference between “us” and “them” is I could give a flying fuck about their Peterson’s and Castellos. If that’s what you enjoy, good for you. I feel no need to piss all over their preference in pipes.

 

[ssjones]

Rich Esserman just recently mentioned The White Spot pipes in his Pipe Collector article, and reported a favorable experience. He might be one of the most experienced Dunhill collectors in the world, so that is pretty strong praise.

 

[pappymac]

As someone said upthread, Dunhill doesn't make their pipes anymore. If you want something fancy that smokes differently I'd recommend either a Castello or a Baki meerschaum. There's a reason modern Dunhills have a horrible resale value.

People have been talking grief about Dunhill since 1920,

"Smoking as a fine art" by A. A. Milne

essays.quotidiana.org

In the beginning, Dunhill didn't make its pipe either. For a couple of years in the early 1900's, Charatan made the Dunhill pipes and then Dunhill started buying bowls made in France and hand finishing them. I don't know where the bowls are being turned these days.

That being said, I have two Dunhills. One is a 1926 Patent Bruyere and a Redbark from around the 70s. The 1926 is clearly a superior smoking pipe in my opinion. The Redbark seems to smoke a little hotter.

All that being said, if I was going to drop over $500 on a pipe, I would probably go with an Ardor or Rinaldo or maybe one of the higher line Savinelli.

 

[Celius]

I have mixed feelling about the brand and its history, but I must say, that from the current pipe makers, nobody is making such classical aesthetically pleasing shapes, like Dunhill.

Dunhill is also in my oppinion the only current pipe maker who makes well proportioned small size pipes (group size 1-3).

If you looking for a NEW classic english pipe, I would go for Dunhill.

If you open to estates, I would go for pre transition Barling, pre Lane Charata or pre Cadogan Comoy.

But the first two are not that easy to find, as I experienced it myself haha.

There was also a remark in this thread that there is no difference between billiard shapes. I would say there certainly is.
There are 100 variations of the shape and most current makers dont make a well proportioned aesthetically pleasing billiard, as Dunhill does.

 

[sablebrush52]

@mordy18 so after all this discussion did you end up buying anything? Or was all this, including the hilariously vengeful hatred spouted by the vestal virgins of the Temple of Dunhill all for naught?

 

[mordy18]

Ha Sable, good question. I wound up buying a Savinelli Roma 802 on Amazon -- 80 bucks. Seemed to fit the bill -- a moderate sized rusticated Canadian for a less than 1/4 the price of a Dunhill and 1/10th the price of a Parks. Smoked it once so far -- caught a nasty cold and haven't been smoking for a few weeks. But after that one time - I like it! I would have liked something just a tad smaller and more clenchable but this scratched the itch -- for now.

Thanks everyone for the input. And I enjoyed the vitriol.