Purchase of New Dunhill (Whitespot) Concerns and Questions

[mordy18]

I am coming to realize that I am gravitating towards very classic shapes. My "collection" consists of three savinellis, two Petes, a Stanwell, a Vauen, a Big Ben, one Catello 55, an old basket pipe and a few briars -- mostly bent shapes.

Having spent some tome trolling this forum and online, I have a real itch for a "classic" billiard or Canadian that is clenchable. Specifically, a Dunhill group 3 or 4 shell briar 3109 or 4109 speaks to me. I was considering a bent Savinelli shape like a 602 but changed my mind.

I see that I can save about 25% by ordering from the Danish Pipe shop or another overseas seller, as opposed to Smoking Pipes. And even if I buy from a US retailer I really don't have access to a B&M with a Dunhill selection.

I've seen some threads about the spotty quality control of Dunhills -- bad drilling, etc. My takeaway that they are generally good to great, but there are some duds.

So to the question -- how much of a risk is it to buy a Dunhill sight unseen? It is after all a fair bit of change and I'd like to approach it thoughtfully and carefully.

Also, I am REALLY interested in a Michael Parks pipe and am willing to pay more for it, and just emailed him, but not sure how long the waiting list is or if he is even still taking new orders.

 

[sablebrush52]

It's no more or less a risk than buying any other pipe unseen. You'll get what you get. But as most pipes smoke about the same, figure that you'll get similar performance to what you already have. So, if you're happy with what you have, you will probably be happy with the Dunhill.

 

[BROBS]

There are plenty of other companies that make classic shapes that will smoke as good or better than a Dunhill. Do you want to overpay on an item for status? What other reasons do you have for wanting a Dunhill?

once you get it and realize it’s not really any better than any other pipe you might have buyer’s remorse.

 

[bluegrassbrian]

Check out site sponsor MKELAW PIPES - http://mkelaw-pipes.com/

Good prices here on estates and there’s some nice Dunhills in the English section.

 

[mso489]

I'm in the BROBS school on this. The White Spot pricing is so out of line, and there are so many excellent pipes that cost a half, a quarter as much. But if you "need" one, you will probably do fine. Frankly, I haven't heard that many complaints about White Spot. foggymountain has many Dunhills and has some series he does not like -- I think shell and Cumberland. chasing embers uses his Dunhill as a Bonsai planter, so he's no fan. But most follow their heart and their wallet and speak well of their White Spots.

 

[mordy18]

BROBS -- thanks for that input. I couldn't care less about status. No one ever sees me smoke anyway -- my wife banishes me to the porch and won't even let our dog near me. But sometimes there is simple enjoyment from owning and using something that just feels and perhaps performs better. For example, I have a $2000 Martin guitar. Does it sound 8 times better than my Yamaha? No. But I do get more enjoyment from it based on its sound and overall quality? Yes. And I only play for myself -- I don't perform so no prestige or other issues.

I know there are varying views on Dunhill, and there are some who do highly regard Dunhill quality (and I have no idea if that's real or not as I have no experience with them). And I do like that classic pipe shape aesthetic. Are Savs or other Italian or Danish makers' classic shapes really the same?

For example: Smoking Pipes has a Sav 802 Canadian Punto Oro Gold for $196 (and of course other lines for much less, but trying to keep the comparison apples to apples somewhat). And they have a Dunhill 4109 cumberland for $497. Do they look similar? Yes, The same -- not to my eye. As to how they smoke, I would suspect the difference wouldn't be noticeable by me, but I don't really know. Is it worth over 2x as much? Not sure. (And I could find a 4109 for under $400 shipped if I order from a European dealer).

Anyway, do you have any concrete recommendations for a traditional, not Italian or Danish, English pipe that is a better value than Dunhill?

Thanks for the input.

 

[BROBS]

BROBS -- thanks for that input. I couldn't care less about status. No one ever sees me smoke anyway -- my wife banishes me to the porch and won't even let our dog near me. But sometimes there is simple enjoyment from owning and using something that just feels and perhaps performs better. For example, I have a $2000 Martin guitar. Does it sound 8 times better than my Yamaha? No. But I do get more enjoyment from it based on its sound and overall quality? Yes. And I only play for myself -- I don't perform so no prestige or other issues.

I know there are varying views on Dunhill, and there are some who do highly regard Dunhill quality (and I have no idea if that's real or not as I have no experience with them). And I do like that classic pipe shape aesthetic. Are Savs or other Italian or Danish makers' classic shapes really the same?

For example: Smoking Pipes has a Sav 802 Canadian Punto Oro Gold for $196 (and of course other lines for much less, but trying to keep the comparison apples to apples somewhat). And they have a Dunhill 4109 cumberland for $497. Do they look similar? Yes, The same -- not to my eye. As to how they smoke, I would suspect the difference wouldn't be noticeable by me, but I don't really know. Is it worth over 2x as much? Not sure. (And I could find a 4109 for under $400 shipped if I order from a European dealer).

Anyway, do you have any concrete recommendations for a traditional, not Italian or Danish, English pipe that is a better value than Dunhill?

Thanks for the input.

in this example I would actually believe that Savinelli is a much better pipe than the Dunhill.
and you could buy two of them for an entry level quality pipe from Dunhill (the Cumberland).

I paid $300 for a 4109 Cumberland and I thought it was a piece of junk. I sent it in to smokingpipes for store credit.
Overpriced by $200 IMO.

 

[daveinlax]

My first "good" pipes were a Peterson and a Savinelli. The thing that I noticed when I bought my first Dunhill was how thin and comfortable the stem was in comparison. Over the years I've owned over 80 and have never been disappointed but I've never paid full retail either. ?

 

[BROBS]

Look at Tilshead pipes, or Ashton... even the high grade Petes will be a better pipe IMO.
for the price of that Dunhill you could buy a gold mounted Supreme from Peterson.

And there are better stems.. I bet I can find 100 pipes under $400 with better buttons.

 

[hauntedmyst]

Dunhills as a whole are outstanding quality. The occasional error is going to slip through with any brand. The ones that are complained about on here were generally estates that you don't know what work was done to them and some people complain about them without ever having owned them. For example, Brobs, have you ever actually owned a Dunhill?

 

[trouttimes]

I agree with BROBS, there are many good smokers that still have "history of quality " at a lower cost than Dunhill. I have many pipes including Dunhills. I love smoking my Dunhill's but they really don't smoke any better for me than a Moretti or a Charatan or even a Comoy I have. Almost any good recognized brand can produce a great smoking pipe. It often is a roll of the dice. I've had VERY expensive pipes that sucked and "cheap" pipes that are great. You pay your money, you take your chances.

 

[ron123]

Michael Parks pipes are awesome and he does the classics very well. He always has a waiting list. The best way to proceed with him is to find something that you like on his site, and ask him to make another. You can request changes in size, stains, smooth or blasted, and stem material, but the best place to start is finding a shape on his site that you like. He usually requests $100 deposit, and he'll give you a ballpark ETA. I've got a handful of his pipes, and if you want to try a high grade pipe from a great carver, he's a great place to start.

Regarding Dunhills, I'm swimming against the current here, but will say that I like them...and duck and run for the door. Dunhill is the official site's whipping boy...just isn't the place to discuss them.

 

[hauntedmyst]

You want to talk about overpriced junk? This Jess Chonowitsch is $7500! Why, why, why I could buy 750 pipes that smoke just as well as this pipe, dadgumit. Or I could buy 400 pipes that smoke just as good, get plenty of tobacco to smoke in them, matches to light the tobacco and pipe cleaners to clean them afterwards by jiminy. And another thing, what's with the pronouncing Jess "Yes"? You can see the J there. Why I tell ya, I'd punch him in the teeth for selling overpriced junk if I ever meet him.

 

[mordy18]

Michael Parks pipes are awesome and he does the classics very well. He always has a waiting list. The best way to proceed with him is to find something that you like on his site, and ask him to make another. You can request changes in size, stains, smooth or blasted, and stem material, but the best place to start is finding a shape on his site that you like. He usually requests $100 deposit, and he'll give you a ballpark ETA. I've got a handful of his pipes, and if you want to try a high grade pipe from a great carver, he's a great place to start.

Regarding Dunhills, I'm swimming against the current here, but will say that I like them...and duck and run for the door. Dunhill is the official site's whipping boy...just isn't the place to discuss them.

Thanks. I have an email in to him. I have a fairly good idea of what I want. Any sense of what one of his Grade IV pipes with one of the three standard stems would run for? No prices that I could find. I am more than happy to order one from him and wait -- no rush.

 

[mso489]

If you want something up-market but within reason price wise, I'd look at Ashton, Ser Jacopo, Ferndown if you can find one, Castello, etc. If you want something moderately priced but high quality, look at Savinelli, Chacom, Genod, Nording, Stanwell, etc. All of these brands have somewhat pricier pipes that would give you both classy fit and finish and a better price than White Spot. But if you have your heart set on a White Spot, do it, and you may never feel the need again.

 

[shanez]

Is your concern with it being a Dunhill or with it coming from overseas?

I just ordered a new Dunhill from James barber out of England. Jesse is correct. The risk of it being a bad pipe is exactly the same as the risk of the new Savinelli I ordered from Smoking Pipes being bad.

I find when I'm ordering from overseas it's merely due to selection and not price although it appears (to me) that Dunhills are overpriced in America vs Europe.

I have several Dunhills and love them all, even a repaired one I bought from a site member here. I actually really enjoy the repaired one in particular. Since I got it for such a good price and knowing it has been repaired once before I don't concern myself with being as careful with it as I am with my other (Dunhill and other) pipes.

 

[mordy18]

Thanks all for those recommendations. I will continue to consider and browse. I need to really think about the cost/benefit (meaning, will it bring greater pleasure) consideration.

And I did hear back from Michael Parks, very prompt and much appreciated. But wow, we are talking about another order of magnitude in terms of cost. And a 10-12 month wait. Makes a Sav Punto Oro or other high end factory pipe seem like an absolute bargain.

 

[MattRVA]

I order my White Spot pipes fro Al Pascia, great experience and decent price.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Most of what I read in Dunnie discussions, is "class" based. I don't think I have ever heard a Dunhill collector refer to Dunhills as better smokers. I mean, they must like the way they smoke, because they keep buying them. But, those that usually bring up the question of whether they smoke better are by those "considering" buying one.
More often, what I hear is that Dunnies are classical, aesthetically appealing, and a piece of history.
What the detractors will say is that they are merely status symbols.

If you are just wanting a really good pipe, there are many cheaper pipes out there. But, if you want a Dunhill for one of the many other reasons, even just because you like the way it looks... that is legit enough of a reason to buy one.

Now, if you are wanting something really above the rest, look into artisan pipes. Because, even the cheapest artisan made pipe with a handcrafted stem is going to blow those overpriced factory Dunnies away in leaps and bounds.

 

[briarbuck]

I'd rather have ONE fabulous pipe that I paid $500, than 5 very good smokers that I paid 100$.

Personal preference.