Premium: A Quality to Ponder

[bullet08]

Premium tobacco seems to be something of an oxymoron. This is just from what I understand, therefore I could be totally wrong. From friends who used to help out on tobacco field, I have heard there are shitload of chemical going on the tobacco. Going organic is almost impossible due to weather, insects, diseases and so on. How can something with that much crap on it can be called premium? If it's a category among prostitutes, it would lower than a crack whore.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Premium tobacco seems to be something of an oxymoron. This is just from what I understand, therefore I could be totally wrong. From friends who used to help out on tobacco field, I have heard there are shitload of chemical going on the tobacco. Going organic is almost impossible due to weather, insects, diseases and so on. How can something with that much crap on it can be called premium? If it's a category among prostitutes, it would lower than a crack whore.

First, drop the word "premium." Forum users seem to hit every spectrum of autism... humming, rocking back and forth, and slapping their foreheads when faced with certain words. Just forget I used that word.

The only thing I put on my tobacco is fertilizer. I have yet to ever spray anything. I mean, the horn worms will eat a few leaves here or there. No worries from me. It can be done. These crops wouldn't come from commercial growers. Like McClellands, they would make relationships with certain growers and such.
Besides, does drenching a tobacco in more chemicals negate the previous chemicals that were put on them? Is FVF's casing, washing off the bad chemicals. I'm not sure how that would have worked.

And, like Dunhills, the price wouldn't necessarily mean that it is the best. It is the cost of exclusivity, luxury... I mean, if someone likes cased European shit, then they just won't ever like a pure tobacco.

 

[bullet08]

First, drop the word "premium." Forum users seem to hit every spectrum of autism... humming, rocking back and forth, and slapping their foreheads when faced with certain words. Just forget I used that word.

The only thing I put on my tobacco is fertilizer. I have yet to ever spray anything. I mean, the horn worms will eat a few leaves here or there. No worries from me. It can be done. These crops wouldn't come from commercial growers. Like McClellands, they would make relationships with certain growers and such.
Besides, does drenching a tobacco in more chemicals negate the previous chemicals that were put on them? Is FVF's casing, washing off the bad chemicals. I'm not sure how that would have worked.

And, like Dunhills, the price wouldn't necessarily mean that it is the best. It is the cost of exclusivity, luxury... I mean, if someone likes cased European shit, then they just won't ever like a pure tobacco.

Ok, nevermind the premium. Personally, casing and topping depend on which day I'm smoking. Some days, it's ok. Some days, just not into something drenched in whatever. Don't get me wrong, all my foods come from supermarkets, I'm pretty sure majority of them are drenched in chemical of one sort or the other. So the tobacco coming from just another farm doesn't make that much difference to me. And which blender and his crew.

 

[telescopes]

I mean, if someone likes cased European shit, then they just won't ever like a pure tobacco.

.... shit. I think it was established earlier on in the thread that it's all... shit. LOL

The real problem with the argument may be to denigrating another groups's taste by calling it "shit". Why not just ask the question, "Does anyone feel there is a market for raw uncased tobacco?"

 

[cosmicfolklore]

.... shit. I think it was established earlier on in the thread that it's all... shit. LOL

The real problem with the argument may be to denigrating another groups's taste by calling it "shit". Why not just ask the question, "Does anyone feel there is a market for raw uncased tobacco?"

I like the good shit.

 

[anotherbob]

I don't get the analogy... unless you're talking about a blend. Blends are inevitably always lower quality tacos. Single leaf is the steak.
However, I did have some really good tacos at the Margarita Grill. They were basically top choice steaks, grilled and served on tortillas. That's what a taco should be. People using hamburger meat and seasoning packs are just pond scum to me.

I am talking about blends and even things that are starring a single type of leaf are almost always going to be a blend. And yes you can certainly have a top shelf great taco, but it's not as easy to sell it that way and have people feel confirmation that it is in fact that thing then with single leaf I mean steak. So I am saying that it will just take more and isn't as natural of a fit for pipe tobacco to be premium. There isn't the instant or near instant reward that you can get if you can clearly demonstrate the premiumness of the product any way otherwise then direct experience or just cause we say so. Things are certainly creeping in that direction and the internet and reviewers like Jim Inks are expediting the process for sure. But the benefit is not clear enough to the producer for it to be a common normal part of the pipe experience.

 

[telescopes]

There is a market for raw uncased tobacco. Marketing it as such with an organic label at that would make it a unique tobacco and as such it would command a higher price.

 

[telescopes]

In fact, it could be branded under the name, Raw and Uncased. You would have Raw and Uncased Virginia. Raw and Uncased Burley and so on.

 

[fireground_piper]

In fact, it could be branded under the name, Raw and Uncased. You would have Raw and Uncased Virginia. Raw and Uncased Burley and so on.

At that point, isn't that just pre-shredded whole leaf with a specific farm provenance as your selling point?

 

[telescopes]

At that point, isn't that just pre-shredded whole leaf with a specific farm provenance as your selling point?

Precisely.

 

[Papamique]

….. I mean, if someone likes cased European shit, then they just won't ever like a pure tobacco.

I like both and don’t consider one of more quality, premium, or better (whatever word you want to call it) than the other. You might but that is your personal preference.

Are you trying to feel out a market for a possible business venture or just want a discussion?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Are you trying to feel out a market for a possible business venture or just want a discussion?

Just a discussion. There used to be more of a demand back when Greg Pease was the dark lord, and McClelland was putting out Christmas Cheer. Now, except for a few C&D blends, it just seems to be a void that nobody notices... or talks about anyways.

I smoke just about all genres. I do have a preference for the more pure C&D Virginias (some of them), but I will smoke some o the other stuff from time to time.

 

[ThermionicScott]

Just a discussion. There used to be more of a demand back when Greg Pease was the dark lord, and McClelland was putting out Christmas Cheer. Now, except for a few C&D blends, it just seems to be a void that nobody notices... or talks about anyways.

Perhaps we've all become aware that many of the blends we thought were "pure tobacco" ended up having casings or toppings or other component tobaccos that weren't originally common knowledge, and rather than rising up in revolt, there has just been a collective "well, I guess I like flavored tobacco" shrug?

 

[KingcobraJFS]

I don't think that just tasting my own influences my opinion. Try a tin of C&D Opening Night. Jeremy has said that it is totally uncased. You can decide. I prefer my pipe tobaccos to be as close to just plain pipe tobacco as possible, but that doesn't mean that I don't occasionally smoke an aromatic or one that I know is cased.
Just ponder'n, ha ha.

Opening Night may well be one of the only uncased Virginia blends on the market today (it's also one of the best), and I find it to be full of flavor. I've always heard that uncased blends would be relatively flavorless, but ON certainly defies this idea.

 

[Egg Shen]

Ok, well… some get hung up on the words. But, the premise, for me, still remains, that I’d prefer for pipe tobacco to strive for less casings, and to see a push for more natural tobacco flavor. And, I surmise that the reason that many other pipe smokers don’t is because it doesn’t matter to them. I guess we could say, pipesmokers will put anything in their pipes and smoke it.

Whereas some will spend over $200 for a bottle of wine that is all natural as long as it also meets palate expectations. And, cigar smokers have no problem spending$15 to 50 for a premium cigar, as ling as it meets palate expectation. Pipesmokers just aren’t as discerning, maybe?

As a self-labeled purist who doesn’t want a cocktail or sugared-up drinks or any other diluted products I often wondered why I am ok with aromatic blends. Sure, they are good tasting, but so is a lot of processed junk that I would never consume. A few reasons I permit this exception to my own general principles is that I do not consume (inhale) this product so it’s not really going “in” me, it is food-grade flavorings, and generally not artificial tasting (with a few exceptions for sure).

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Opening Night may well be one of the only uncased Virginia blends on the market today (it's also one of the best), and I find it to be full of flavor. I've always heard that uncased blends would be relatively flavorless, but ON certainly defies this idea.

C&Ds Virginia Flake is also uncased, according to the same video post I saw from Jeremy.

 

[Egg Shen]

Maybe instead of premium the pure uncased stuff could be labeled artisanal? . And since food flavorings are artificial and cannot be hand-crafted (artisanal) that would exclude aromatics from being artisanal, yet they could still be called premium. An exception when an aromatic could be upgraded to “artisanal “ would be if they use 100% real juice or essential oils, as opposed to “natural flavor”, which is what food grade flavorings are often called on labels.

Everyone likes the word “artisanal”, right?

 

[pipingfool]

Is there a market for unadulterated, single estate, high-quality pipe tobacco? Absolutely.

Is there enough demand for a grower to actually make money on it? That remains to be seen.

High quality agricultural products are difficult and expensive to produce, hence why they command a higher price.

But somewhere along the line there is a point of diminishing returns. The comparison to high quality wine is not exactly apples to apples simply because there is a large market for high quality, single estate wine. There are a lot more consumers willing to pay a lot of money for those products. So producers know that they can command the high prices.

That isn't the case for pipe tobacco. We are very small segment of the overall tobacco market. And those that seek out "artisanal" blends are an even smaller segment of the pipe tobacco market. So in order for a grower to make any type of reasonable profit on a minimally-processed product that still tastes good that is produced in very low quantities, they would need to charge extremely high prices to the blenders. Tack on the margins from the blender to the retailer and then the retailer to the consumer, and I feel you are way above your $100.00/tin price point.

So if you're the grower, what would you choose? Growing tobacco that needs processing and casings in order to be enjoyable but with less overall effort so therefore less cost, and then selling that tobacco in large quantities at a lower profit margin but still allowing you to put more money to the bottom line?

Or, growing a tiny "exceptional" tobacco that requires the same (if not more) labor and costs to produce, and trying to sell it at exorbitant prices just to hit your profit margins and "hoping" that the product will sell to the consumer at those exorbitant prices? Because if it doesn't sell, then the retailer has to discount it and possibly sell it at a loss just because it is taking up shelf/warehouse space as well as capital. Then good luck getting the retailers to purchase it again.

I'd be all about purchasing something like that, but I would be surprised if a grower would take it on.

 

[KingcobraJFS]

C&Ds Virginia Flake is also uncased, according to the same video post I saw from Jeremy.

Does that post still exist? I'd love to see it

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Does that post still exist? I'd love to see it

I believe it was a Smokingpipes instagram post. He listed a few others they have that are uncased as well. I think Sunday Picnic, but I hesitate because I may be wrong. It is a post where Jeremy talks about what a casing is.