Im going to agree with this being geared more towards the newer generations. They have to sell a lot to be profitable, and lets be honest In the grand scheme of things the pipe tobacco world is really small comparatively.
Premium: A Quality to Ponder
- Thread starter cosmicfolklore
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Is any tobacco truly uncased?
From what I’ve seen and read one of the steps of preparing commercial leaf for use is “bringing it into case”. That is, getting the moisture level correct for the processing steps to follow. Sugar is often used in the casing solution as sugar is hygroscopic. The purpose is not to add/modify flavor although if desired flavors can be added at this step as well.
I guess my thought is that saying something is cased doesn’t automatically mean the flavor of the leaf is being subsumed or covered, along with whatever that means to the quality proposition.
From what I’ve seen and read one of the steps of preparing commercial leaf for use is “bringing it into case”. That is, getting the moisture level correct for the processing steps to follow. Sugar is often used in the casing solution as sugar is hygroscopic. The purpose is not to add/modify flavor although if desired flavors can be added at this step as well.
I guess my thought is that saying something is cased doesn’t automatically mean the flavor of the leaf is being subsumed or covered, along with whatever that means to the quality proposition.
I admire Cornell & Diehl for their embracing burley as a base and blending tobacco, lifting it from the ranks of a sturdy over-the-counter leaf and base for aromatics to a leaf that can be base or condiment in premium blends.
I've been a fan since they were in North Carolina at Morganton, and feel pretty good about how Jeremy Reeves at SP has maintained a lot of their classic blends and followed the traditions as well as adding some touches of his own.
I've been a fan since they were in North Carolina at Morganton, and feel pretty good about how Jeremy Reeves at SP has maintained a lot of their classic blends and followed the traditions as well as adding some touches of his own.
So, you’re saying that Jeremey is lying? It is ridiculous to think that tobacco requires a casing. Why would ancient people have ever even used tobacco to smoke in the first place if it couldn’t be smoked uncased?
Plus, I’ve grown enough varieties of tobacco to place my hand on the Holy Bible and swear that I love all of the varieties uncased.
There are proprietary, homogenization, and commercial reasons that tobacco companies chose to case it… none of which suggests that tobacco CANNOT be enjoyed more without a casing.
Commenting on the flavored alcohols. Flavored cocktails started during prohibition or perhaps earlier to help make the poorly made alcohol tolerable. The definition of gin is juniper berry and other herbs infused into it. Its not kids. Been around a while that idea.
Premium tobacco, really anything marketed as premium, whether flavored or cased or unflavored is about the result. The tobacco should have the proper burn, proper taste, the finest grade tobacco and nothing unnecessary added. Fraudulently adding junk ingredients to reduce production cost and still charge high prices is not premium. Premium should mean only the finest or most desirable ingredients are used with nothing else added. Yes that sounds like a beer commercial but you get the idea. Then its up to the consumer to agree and willing to pay.
Premium tobacco, really anything marketed as premium, whether flavored or cased or unflavored is about the result. The tobacco should have the proper burn, proper taste, the finest grade tobacco and nothing unnecessary added. Fraudulently adding junk ingredients to reduce production cost and still charge high prices is not premium. Premium should mean only the finest or most desirable ingredients are used with nothing else added. Yes that sounds like a beer commercial but you get the idea. Then its up to the consumer to agree and willing to pay.
“Premium should mean only the finest or most desirable ingredients are used” This is it as far as I’m concerned.
However, I don’t think that a light casing or a high quality topping being added to achieve a certain nuance means a product doesn’t deserve the “premium” moniker. Premium denotes high quality or the highest quality in my opinion. After reading this thread in it’s entirety it is clear that opinions vary.
@cosmicfolklore - great topic, it certainly sparked a lively discussion and some strong views and it had nothing to do with God, Guns or Politics
After reading this thread I think I'm going to order some of the 'uncased' tobacco mentioned to see what its like and what you're talking about. Maybe I will prefer it too on occasion ... Thanks !
I’ve been using tobacco for over 30 years and I’ve always recognized premium tobacco. In the past 5 years I’ve dedicated a lot of energy to learning about tobacco and modern practices associated with manufacturing and I haven’t gained much respect for the manufacturers, in fact I rarely buy anything anymore.
I’m not sure I’d be using that as an argument. For one thing, you don’t know that ancients didn’t add herbs to the tobacco when they smoked it, and then there’s the very real question of standards.
The levels of seasoning that were used in food, types of foods that are known through archaeology would be considered primitive to modern sensibilities.
Fucking Romans watered their wine.
People mostly stank to high heaven, but were used to stinking. Many thought bathing perverse and dangerous. If they wiped their butts they used what was available. It was a different time.
Maybe the ancients just liked to get fucked up every now and then, an enjoyable treat in a short life before they got sick, injured, murdered, or eaten.
From what little is known, smoking was more of a communal experience, a group of people on their haunches surrounding a burning pile of leaves and inhaling the smoke or sipping it through reeds. Who really knows what was in those piles? For all we know they might have peed on it before they smoked it.
Maybe that was what it was about, getting wrecked with your stinky buds. So purity, schmurity. Don’t be trying that high school debate tactic lest you wind up saber tooth cat food.
A very piquant top note to awaken the senses.
Well, what we have is speculation verses the fact that tobacco has been used for over a thousand years. Sure, we do know that mixtures were made, as in kinikinik (spelling?) but we also know that they rolled pure leaves into the proto cigars. If it were just additives that they enjoyed, then why even keep going through the hassle of cultivating tobacco? Just crush some sticks and berries.
We have a leafy plant that adapts well to any soil or climate, and it changes flavors based on these adaptations. All, I am saying is that some of us may just enjoy smoking single crops to explore what this leaf can do.
So many seem to think that only corporations can make tobacco taste good. Where else do we see people choosing the corporate product over homemade? Sure, cars and planes… I will take the corporate version for safety. But, I’ll take a home cooked meal any day over restaurants. Maybe some people just can’t make anything worth a shit, so they leave the cooking, brewing, and tobacco to people who do. Useless people who can’t fry an egg. Think that making biscuits is witchcraft. Ha ha.
But, for the rest of us…
I prefer only ales. Porters, Kolsch, Lambics, Saison, Weisenbier, and Belgians. The Pale Ale category I enjoy as well. It has India and American primarily and maybe a few others. I like Pale Ale with a level of detectable hops but sometimes its a lot and the wrong type. I'm primarily at citrus hops and some fruit not the pine type. But I know what you mean. The crowds love their blown out hopped IPA for sure.
Exactly. Sometimes I want a meal served to me so I can talk with my friends and not have to worry about the meal. Sometimes I enjoy certain chefs interpeation of a dish to see what I can experience from that chef. Sometimes I like the experience of cooking. Like with tobacco. I make a dozen blends of my own which take a bit of work to complete. But sometimes I want to have a smoke to see another blenders interpretation or I want to just smoke something I can buy a lot of like Newminster 400. If I smoke up all my own blends then I have to make more which is fun but time consuming. So it's a balance.
Yeh, I can only drink the beers that aren’t heavily hopped. The more it taste citrusy or fruity, the less I can drink it. I respect the heavier porters, but they just makes me feel fat and bloated.
These tangerine and flower flavored beers, phhhhhht.
Yeh, I can enjoy corporate tobacco. I’d better with 100’s of pounds of it at my disposal. Ha ha. But, I do enjoy my own twists and single crops also.
But, I can enjoy a McDonalds hamburger from time to time also. But, if given the choice between a home grilled burger and McDonalds… I will take home grilled every time.
A “why” question always begs speculation.
We know that people indulged in smoking tobacco for thousands of years. We have a little evidence regarding how it was smoked. We don’t know WHY it was smoked, though we can rationally speculate at best.
But attaching a value or a virtue to plain tobacco VS cased or flavored is a matter of taste, not an absolute.
I can cook, and bake very very well. Started at it when I was 7. I can turn out a tasty meal on the fly, or pull favorite dishes from a number of cuisines, and sometimes I prefer to order a lamb biryani than take the time to prepare it.
I’ve had a few home grown and processed blends that would compete with any commercially produced blend. Most have been disappointing.
But premium ultimately comes down to an individual’s perception, not whether or not the object has been juiced.
The home blends that I’ve been disappointed in were the ones where the blender added a juice to it. Never have I had a homegrown tobacco that was straight leaf that wasn’t at least extremely interesting.
So, you aren’t interested in the ideal that I proposed. I get it. But, there seems to be a small percentage that is. But ultimately, it probably isn’t worth the endeavor.
Even if I put out a mindblowing uncased single crop, there would be misinformed assholes who would insist that it had to be cased, because they’ve been misled to believe that all tobacco is cased.
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