Premium: A Quality to Ponder

[sablebrush52]

So, you aren’t interested in the ideal that I proposed. I get it. But, there seems to be a small percentage that is. But ultimately, it probably isn’t worth the endeavor.

No, I'm interested, just not convinced from what I've sampled over the years. Let people like what they like. Lots of people like blends that I don't and I like blends that others don't. To each their own.

 

[Michigan_Bill]

No, I'm interested, just not convinced from what I've sampled over the years. Let people like what they like. Lots of people like blends that I don't and I like blends that others don't. To each their own.

Maybe that’s the meat of the matter. We all like pipe smoking and we all derive similar pleasures from it, but we all like different tobacco blends. Perhaps we like the blends we like for different reasons as well.

 

[renfield]

So, you’re saying that Jeremey is lying? It is ridiculous to think that tobacco requires a casing. Why would ancient people have ever even used tobacco to smoke in the first place if it couldn’t be smoked uncased?

I’ll presume you don’t really think I’m saying that.

If Jeremy doesn’t even have to adjust the moisture of the leaf he has to work with, or add flavors at that stage on a particular blend, I’ll certainly take him at his word.

I’m saying there’s casing and then there are casings.

In one of MacBaren’s video tours of their facility they’re stepping thorough the process and when using tobacco that’s been in bulk storage it’s been kept dry to forestall mold and decay. The moisture content of the leaf needs to be increased to make it less brittle. When C&D are using bulk stored tobaccos they’ve purchased in previous years I’d think they have to do the same thing. Even if they’re using straight water that would be bringing the leaf into case. Not a casing the way most people think of casing because no flavor is being added. The casing is to facilitate processing, not to change or add flavors. To me that’s uncased in the broad interpretation but cased in the technical sense.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I’ll presume you don’t really think I’m saying that.

If Jeremy doesn’t even have to adjust the moisture of the leaf he has to work with, or add flavors at that stage on a particular blend, I’ll certainly take him at his word.

I’m saying there’s casing and then there are casings.

In one of MacBaren’s video tours of their facility they’re stepping thorough the process and when using tobacco that’s been in bulk storage it’s been kept dry to forestall mold and decay. The moisture content of the leaf needs to be increased to make it less brittle. When C&D are using bulk stored tobaccos they’ve purchased in previous years I’d think they have to do the same thing. Even if they’re using straight water that would be bringing the leaf into case. Not a casing the way most people think of casing because no flavor is being added. The casing is to facilitate processing, not to change or add flavors. To me that’s uncased in the broad interpretation but cased in the technical sense.

I asked Jeremy in the comments, if he considered water or humectants to be casing, and he said, "no." A casing has to have a flavor, if not but just a hint of flavor. I am not a fan, but even anti-fungals are not considered casing. If, I had any say in what I want, I'd prefer the hypothetical tobacco to be sent to me dry. Mold needs water to take hold. If one wanted more moisture, they can add it. But, this tobacco isn't in the making. So, I just grow it.

 

[renfield]

Good to know. I’ll change my understanding of what a casing is. It has to have a flavor component to be considered a casing.

I prefer blends to be tinned on the dry side as well. I don’t pay for water and less risk of mold.

 

[Steddy]

I would love to see more single crop unadulterated tobacco and similar products. I don’t know if there is a supply or a market for them but things like C&D Carolina Red Flake are such a rare treat.

 

[Hillcrest]

It’s interesting how the premium pipe tobaccos don’t follow the same quality characteristics as other “premium” products that are based on agriculture.

I know that cigars are vastly different from pipe tobacco. Cigars, or most of the top end cigars are based on meeting the qualities and Characteristics of Cuban based cigars. Like 90% are all trying to copy the Cuban model. But, even in the stogies that are unique from the Cuban model, the quality is still based on a few objectives shared in other products. If any flavoring is added, it definitely reduces its value and demand.

In wines, single crops, no added chemicals to speed the process, and relying completely on the natural process is what makes a top tier wine. I mean, there are blends, those that were filtered, and have added chemicals to speed the process to meet the market demands, but these are not the top tier wines that are most sought after in auctions. And, add any flavorings to a wine, and it gets relegated to the below $10 wines sold on the bottom shelf of grocery stores; MD20/20, Arbor Mist, Barefoot blends, Stella Rosa, etc…

Bourbons are actually government regulated to be kept “pure” in quality. To sell a product in the USA labeled Bourbon, it has to be more than 50% corn, no added flavors or chemicals, made in the US, and aged in new, charred, oak barrels for at least 2 years. They can aged them in sherry barrels afterwards, but other than this, any variation from these rules, delegates it down to a whiskey.

Years ago, Greg Pease tried to market this idea of pipe tobaccos being pure, no added flavorings and such. Mark Ryan picked up on this also, but then after time went by, they both swayed away from this idea. Nowadays, the most sought after pipe tobaccos are a majority of heavily cased or aromatic. Esoterica and their licorice and treacle flavorings. Greg now sops on the spirits and has even contacted GH&co to have their aromatic juice made for a blend. Even FVF has a juice added to it.

I know that mold is an issue that has pipe tobacco manufacturers concerned. Mark Ryan had went back to the old notion of the historical keeping the tobacco dry for us to reduce this without having to add antifungals. Of course this bothered many of the pipe smokers that6 see this new notion of wet assed blends being the norm now. But, it hasn’t always been this way.

I think that the only company that still entertains this idea that I am presenting is C&D. Still blends like Opening Night and Virginia Flake are still kept unadulterated with casings, but yet the masses still look to sloppy juiced blends as the top tier tobaccos. McClelland gave us a few single crop blends, and helped McCrannies supply a tobacco that fell closest to what we see as top tier products in wine. Single crop products that will sway in flavors from year to year, naturally processed with no added flavorings. Just let time and nature work its magic. Of course some haters will never believe that they didn’t just slop vinegar on their leaf… whatever.

But, is it marketing, consumers’ lower expectations, or just money that prevents this notion of a purity in the product from taking hold?
Hell, even perique has a close purity expectation, misguidedly placed on location. But, even with perique, blenders slop their VaPer blends down with casing and topping.

Why do you think that this notion of premium pipe tobacco hasn’t taken hold strongly in pipe tobaccos?

FYI ... "Premium" is now defined by Federal Court ... at least for cigars ... until appeal ... I wonder why pipe tobacco lobbyists didn't get in on this case ... Interesting anyway ... for now ....

Federal Judge Delivers Big Win to the Premium Cigar Industry

pjmedia.com

 

[sablebrush52]

FYI ... "Premium" is now defined by Federal Court ... at least for cigars ... until appeal ... I wonder why pipe tobacco lobbyists didn't get in on this case ... Interesting anyway ... for now ....

Federal Judge Delivers Big Win to the Premium Cigar Industry

pjmedia.com

Essentially, if the cigar is made of tobacco without additives it’s “premium”. It’s as good as any other rubric.
Mine is any smoke I find especially satisfying.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Essentially, if the cigar is made of tobacco without additives it’s “premium”. It’s as good as any other rubric.
Mine is any smoke I find especially satisfying.

I think of premium as this also. But, this would exclude everything that Esoterica makes... which is fine with me.

 

[ThermionicScott]

That would make much of C&D output "premium", but most/all of the existing legacy Dunhill blends, not...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

That would make much of C&D output "premium", but most/all of the existing legacy Dunhill blends, not...

Sutliff/MacBaron would probably have an issue with this also.

 

[jeremyreeves]

There is a book about a guy who goes freaking crazy thinking about what quality and things like premium are, in a philosophical sense. The book is called, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Great book. You don't even have to like motorcycles, ha ha.

One of my favorite books. The study of quality and it's defining values is quite thought provoking. As is this thread you've started.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One of my favorite books. The study of quality and it's defining values is quite thought provoking. As is this thread you've started.

Aww shucks, Thanks!

I got my PHD in Aesthetics, and that book definitely inspired me. It can leave you feeling empty or melancholy. His next book, if you haven't read it, Lila: an Inquiry into Morals, will definitely kick you in the head.

 

[sablebrush52]

I think of premium as this also. But, this would exclude everything that Esoterica makes... which is fine with me.

One man’s meat is another man’s poison.
I do like several of the Esoterica blends, but haven’t smoked them often in the last several years. The more recent releases that I’ve tried have shown a real drop in quality.

 

[Hillcrest]

Sutliff/MacBaron would probably have an issue with this also.

I wonder why they didn't jump into case and get included. Basically the Judge gave tobacco a win and probably would have added pipe tobacco if someone had sent in even an Amicus Brief to be included !!!
Unbelievable ... well ... maybe not anymore ...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One man’s meat is another man’s poison.
I do like several of the Esoterica blends, but haven’t smoked them often in the last several years. The more recent releases that I’ve tried have shown a real drop in quality.

I like many tobaccos that aren't within my definition of "premium." Just because it isn't within the perimeter of being "premium" doesn't mean it's not good.

 

[telescopes]

I think any Lakeland or other such tobaccos might qualify as premium if the tobacco itself was of a defined quality. Toppings on tobacco blend are not what makes a tobacco a lesser quality. For me, it would be the leaf and the preparation to make it pipe tobacco.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I think any Lakeland or other such tobaccos might qualify as premium if the tobacco itself was of a defined quality. Toppings on tobacco blend are not what makes a tobacco a lesser quality. For me, it would be the leaf and the preparation to make it pipe tobacco.

:::sigh::: It would be merely a category. If a tobacco doesn’t meet “premium” requirements, it doesn’t make it a “lesser” tobacco. It just wouldn’t meet “premium” requirements. It can be “high quality” tobacco… I don’t care. But, in cigars, as we’ve seen with cigars and the new laws, adding flavors just bumps it from the premium category. That doesn’t mean that it’s not a really good tobacco.

Jeesh people, ha ha. It’s like… “I hate this thread because my favorite vanilla twirl, cherry, mocha tobacco isn’t included.”
Or, “I hate the taste of tobacco so much that it’s obvious that tobacco has to have flavors added for a real man to like it.” Jeesh…

 

[telescopes]

I don't know that the definition for premium in cigar world works or overlays so well with pipe tobacco world. Toppings and flavors are apart of pipe tobacco. However, i would not consider 1Q a premium tobacco although I would consider some of the better quality leaves that happen to utilize a topping as premium. Some Lakelands might be considered as such. Remember, according to the article mentioned above, most cigars at the cigar shop would classify as premium. I am more interested in the quality of the leaf, its preparation, and its overall quality.

However, I do understand the argument presented previously. I just don't necessarily agree with all of it. .

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't know that the definition for premium in cigar world works or overlays so well with pipe tobacco world. Toppings and flavors are apart of pipe tobacco. However, i would not consider 1Q a premium tobacco although I would consider some of the better quality leaves that happen to utilize a topping as premium. Some Lakelands might be considered as such. Remember, according to the article mentioned above, most cigars at the cigar shop would classify as premium. I am more interested in the quality of the leaf, its preparation, and its overall quality.

However, I do understand the argument presented previously. I just don't necessarily agree with all of it. .

Then, the category would not be for you.