Premium: A Quality to Ponder

[vosBghos]

Thinking back to when I started smoking about 1970 - 71, there were absolutely brands that were marketed and perceived as "luxury" and "premium brands, like Dunhill and Sobranie Ltd, to name just two very obvious examples that would be known to current smokers.

A lot of this revolved around Turkish cigarettes and to a lesser extent pipe tobaccos. I loved smoking Chaliapin cigarettes from Sobranie and had to ration them as they cost multiple times what a pack of American cigarettes cost. But the flavors were full, rich, and creamy, far and away beyond the average cigarette. A box, no shitty packs, would cost me several hours wages.

People who weren't smoking then have absolutely no idea of the sheer quality that was available. We didn't have the quantity. No 6 to 7,000 available blends, many of which pretty much tasted like each other, which was the situation just a few years ago. It was a different world.

Even coming from Gauloises, Gigantes, Drum/Balishag , from the 90's compared to now I can sure believe that things have changed quite a bit. Though I only smoked American cigarettes most of the 80's. No idea what I missed guess ignorance is bliss except when mixed with OCD

 

[Hillcrest]

Maybe premium is the wrong word. I know what you mean though, but I’m just not sure what to call it.

All natural unadulterated pure tobacco deriving its flavor from curing and blending rather than additives. ??? (not known as BULK)

 

[sablebrush52]

Even coming from Gauloises, Gigantes, Drum/Balishag , from the 90's compared to now I can sure believe that things have changed quite a bit. Though I only smoked American cigarettes most of the 80's. No idea what I missed guess ignorance is bliss except when mixed with OCD

Things have changed quite a bit. There was a quality drop in the '90's and there's another happening now. My tastebuds tell me that that change has accelerated over the last several years. Newer smokers won't have a basis for comparison, so are able to imprint on what's available to them and enjoy it for its merits.

 

[sablebrush52]

All natural unadulterated pure tobacco deriving its flavor from curing and blending rather than additives. ??? (not known as BULK)

Not known as anything. I've had a variety of home grown over the years and only one whose blends actually would have compared favorably with the better commercial blends. He grew it and processed it, spent years at it, and knew what he was doing.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Not known as anything. I've had a variety of home grown over the years and only one whose blends actually would have compared favorably with the better commercial blends. He grew it and processed it, spent years at it, and knew what he was doing.

Are you asking me for samples, without actually asking me for samples? ha ha. JK

 

[sablebrush52]

Are you asking me for samples, without actually asking me for samples? ha ha. JK

No, people offered me samples. It's funny with tobacco, I've never asked for a sample, it's always been a case of people offering it to me. I'll happily share something that I have, but I just never ask.

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

I'll settle this!

Peter Stokkebye LUXURY Twist Flake.

Oh, hell... that's luxury and not premium. Carry on

 

[Hillcrest]

Maybe there is a lot of Premium tobacco out there :
Merriam-Webster:

premium​

noun​

pre·mi·um ˈprē-mē-əm




Synonyms of premium

1a : a reward or recompense for a particular act
b : a sum over and above a regular price paid chiefly as an inducement or incentive

c : a sum in advance of or in addition to the nominal value of something
bonds callable at a premium of six percent



d : something given free or at a reduced price with the purchase of a product or service
2 : the consideration paid for a contract of insurance


3 : a high value or a value in excess of that normally or usually expected put a premium on accuracy


2 of 2

adjective : of exceptional quality or amount
also : higher-priced​

 

[ADKPiper]

Context is everything is such matters

 

[telescopes]

@ADKPiper sums up my thoughts perfectly with the above image. There is a marked difference between quality and premium. Quality can be described, measured and assigned mathematical tolerances to describe its existence, i.e. Egyptian Per Cal bed sheets. How the sheets were manufactured, the type of QC used, etc can all help define the "quality" of sheets.

Quality is also reproducible and can be copied as it is the end result of a road map of various processes and manufacturing techniques and QC.

Premium is pure marketing.

It is whatever you want it to be.

When I see the word Premium, I put my wallet back into my pocket.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

@ADKPiper sums up my thoughts perfectly with the above image. There is a marked difference between quality and premium. Quality can be described, measured and assigned mathematical tolerances to describe its existence, i.e. Egyptian Per Cal bed sheets. How the sheets were manufactured, the type of QC used, etc can all help define the "quality" of sheets.

Quality is also reproducible and can be copied as it is the end result of a road map of various processes and manufacturing techniques and QC.

Premium is pure marketing.

It is whatever you want it to be.

When I see the word Premium, I put my wallet back into my pocket.

Ok, well… some get hung up on the words. But, the premise, for me, still remains, that I’d prefer for pipe tobacco to strive for less casings, and to see a push for more natural tobacco flavor. And, I surmise that the reason that many other pipe smokers don’t is because it doesn’t matter to them. I guess we could say, pipesmokers will put anything in their pipes and smoke it.

Whereas some will spend over $200 for a bottle of wine that is all natural as long as it also meets palate expectations. And, cigar smokers have no problem spending$15 to 50 for a premium cigar, as ling as it meets palate expectation. Pipesmokers just aren’t as discerning, maybe?

 

[telescopes]

Pipesmokers just aren’t as discerning, maybe?

Interesting discussion. It may be that many pipe smokers are more discerning about how they spend their money... perhaps they are tightwads.

In the end, they vote with their money and aromatics seem to ring up the most at the cash register.

My own theory is that so called premium tobaccos are not the ones that most pipe smokers are exposed to early on in the experience. Tobacco is a comfort food in my way of thinking and comfort blends seem to entice.

But marketing a "Raw and Unadulterated" or "Virgin" tobacco should be something the makers could make room for.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Interesting discussion. It may be that many pipe smokers are more discerning about how they spend their money... perhaps they are tightwads.

In the end, they vote with their money and aromatics seem to ring up the most at the cash register.

My own theory is that so called premium tobaccos are not the ones that most pipe smokers are exposed to early on in the experience. Tobacco is a comfort food in my way of thinking and comfort blends seem to entice.

But marketing a "Raw and Unadulterated" or "Virgin" tobacco should be something the makers could make room for.

Yeh, “most” wine drinkers, are happy with what they can buy without having to have credit checks and competing for them at auction. “Most” cigar smokers are happy with buying off the rack also.

I wasn’t really think inclusivity.

 

[Sgetz]

I do, or did. After harvesting a few hundred pounds last year, I am taking a break.
But, if there became game for it, I would consider...

So what does your own taste like? I come from UK we don't grow tobacco. So have no idea what home grown is like. Though I have smelt the cigar like odour of tobacco fields in France.

 

[TexJake]

I would think that the success of the HH line indicates that there is room in the market for something like you describe - an exploration of what can be achieved from the perspective of flavor profile and depth by blending only raw or absolute minimally processed leaf.

 

[BarrelProof]

My tastebuds tell me that that change has accelerated over the last several years. Newer smokers won't have a basis for comparison, so are able to imprint on what's available to them and enjoy it for its merits.

Taste buds have been proven to deteriorate with age, so perhaps theirs just work better?

Hopefully it’s not too early for a friendly prod!

 

[kcghost]

Well, we can argue all day, but I'll keep smoking my favorite blends and let you guys argue about whether it is premium or not.

 

[JRW11b]

And that's where you get into the blurred lines of "premium" within the broader "premium cigar" market. What the threshold for an aficionado? There's definitely flavored cigars in the $15-$20 per cigar category (online price), example being the Stillwell line that came out by Dunbarton Tobacco.

Steve Saka himself is a pipe smoker. From what I understand, they contain pipe tobacco from C&D and still use very high quality Nicaraguan tobaccos.

 

[condorlover1]

I suppose that would defined as an ecclesiastical question!

 

[yanoJL]

... But, even with perique, blenders slop their VaPer blends down with casing and topping.

Why do you think that this notion of premium pipe tobacco hasn’t taken hold strongly in pipe tobaccos?

I personally think it's because pure, uncased, untreated tobacco simply does not appeal to the consumer.

"I CANNOT stress this enough. Every tobacco you buy commercially, unless it is in leaf form, has been cased. Every. Single. One. McClelland’s red Virginia was cased. Even Sutliff’s and other’s blending tobaccos are cased. All of them. I may have pissed a few people off on another forum a while back by saying this, but if you smoke raw leaf and like it, either you are fooling yourself or have the taste buds of a dumpster Rat....
.... I’m talking about acidic compounds that tobacconists use to a) Lower the ph of the tobacco (all leaf, especially air cured stuff like Burley, has a high ph in its raw form. And high ph = tongue bite) and, b) to underscore the good natural flavors of a type of tobacco, and, c) As an antibacterial to prevent mold, and, d) as a humectant to keep the tobacco fresh"

- ErnieQ (Watch City Cigars)