Premium: A Quality to Ponder

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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,714
49,034
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Why do you think that this notion of premium pipe tobacco hasn’t taken hold strongly in pipe tobaccos?
It depends on how you define "premium" within an industry, and that varies, as you have pointed out.

So I would say that "premium" tobaccos are very much a part of pipe tobaccos. Dunhill made tobaccos went through a number of processes in search of a final result, and they were particular about the quality of the leaf they chose to get to that result.

When they outsourced to Murray's and McConnell, some of that processing was cut in order to save money, but again, the tobaccos were aged by the manufacturer until ready for release, much like wines or booze. McClelland was based on the idea of following the British model, making products they wanted to make, using leaf that they felt met their metric, and releasing it when they felt it was ready for consumption, a product made with care. And if a batch didn't measure up, as in the case of the last batch of 5100, it got destroyed.

The notion of unflavored natural tobacco being somehow better is an interesting one, since they're mostly really tasteless, as GL Pease points out in his FAQ. Pretty much every commercially released tobacco blend is given a bit of "help" to develop flavors, sugar, heat, pressure, flavorings, virgin sacrifice, whatever. But magicians never reveal their secrets.
 
Jan 30, 2020
2,216
7,348
New Jersey
I would just consider these anomalies. And, again, price and marketing doesn't mean that these will get rated like an Arturo Fuente Don Carlos. So, it doesn't mean that I am exactly misguided, just that there are some other things also going on out there.
uh oh, aged in Cognac barrels:

 

canucklehead

Lifer
Aug 1, 2018
2,862
15,355
Alberta
So, you are saying that my notion of premium presented is false because of some outliers? I don't think that an anomaly tears down the walls completely. These outliers are merely marketing glips, attempts to create a market. It happens in everything. Watches, clothes, cars even. If you sell it hard enough, people will buy into it.

You won't see a cherry flavored cigar get rated alongside a true premium cigar.
Not trying to argue with you but your post reminded me of seeing these when I was cigar shopping recently, I had no idea there was such a thing as a cherry robusto, lmao.

 

Auxsender

Lifer
Jul 17, 2022
1,106
5,697
Nashville
The whole point of my post is that there are no indicators for a premium line in pipe tobaccos.
Is that a bad thing though? Earnest question: Are you advocating for a standardized system or spec for grading pipe tobacco? I have no opinion on the matter, just trying to understand your position.
 
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Jan 30, 2020
2,216
7,348
New Jersey
OK, obviously you two don't understand what I was trying to say, so, ignored. You can just shit all over the thread. I just don't want to see it. @canucklehead @fireground_piper You're not making a point that is in alignment with the thread.
I was just going to leave it at the initial statement but you have continued to try and redefine "premium" to fit your initial statement when myself and others point out examples of premium cigars that are not unadulterated.

You can tailor your definition however you want, but the fact is cigars aren't so unadulterated across the board as stated for the initial question. It was a misguided statement and this obviously troubles you.
 

MikeDub

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 26, 2022
261
781
SoCal
Since you grow your own tobacco - do you feel unadulterated tobacco has substantially better flavor/nuance that you don’t bother with buying commercially produced tins?
 
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Is that a bad thing though? Earnest question: Are you advocating for a standardized system or spec for grading pipe tobacco? I have no opinion on the matter, just trying to understand your position.
No, my post was just pondering why pipe tobacco didn't follow other agricultural pleasure products. I am making no push for anything. Just discussing. I am in no way saying that the current pipe tobacco market is bad in any way. I am quite fond of pipe tobaccos.
 

canucklehead

Lifer
Aug 1, 2018
2,862
15,355
Alberta
OK, obviously you two don't understand what I was trying to say, so, ignored. You can just shit all over the thread. I just don't want to see it. @canucklehead @fireground_piper You're not making a point that is in alignment with the thread.
Oh calm down... in agreement with part of your previous post, I recently bought some wine that stated on the bottle it had "750+ Awards" but it was on sale for $5 and tasted pretty terrible, tart and bitter when it should be tannic and deep. None of the awards were recent.
 
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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,610
cosmic', you've definitely thought about this more deeply than I have. What immediately occurs to me is that according to various reports on the subject, aromatic blends constitute ninety-some percentage of pipe tobacco sales.

So the non-aromatic market constitutes less than ten percent of the total market. Folks like us who smoke a greater amount of non-aromatic blends are a tiny niche among a small total niche of pipe smokers.

So we non-aromatic inclined smokers rely on the goopy, sweet, chocolate eclair blends to support blending and distribution of the blends we tend to prefer.

I don't think it is an evil cadre of goop lovers; it's just supply and demand. Business produces what it can sell in great quantity, and in pipe tobacco, that is aromatics.
 
Since you grow your own tobacco - do you feel unadulterated tobacco has substantially better flavor/nuance that you don’t bother with buying commercially produced tins?
I don't think that just tasting my own influences my opinion. Try a tin of C&D Opening Night. Jeremy has said that it is totally uncased. You can decide. I prefer my pipe tobaccos to be as close to just plain pipe tobacco as possible, but that doesn't mean that I don't occasionally smoke an aromatic or one that I know is cased.
Just ponder'n, ha ha.
 
cosmic', you've definitely thought about this more deeply than I have. What immediately occurs to me is that according to various reports on the subject, aromatic blends constitute ninety-some percentage of pipe tobacco sales.

So the non-aromatic market constitutes less than ten percent of the total market. Folks like us who smoke a greater amount of non-aromatic blends are a tiny niche among a small total niche of pipe smokers.

So we non-aromatic inclined smokers rely on the goopy, sweet, chocolate eclair blends to support blending and distribution of the blends we tend to prefer.

I don't think it is an evil cadre of goop lovers; it's just supply and demand. Business produces what it can sell in great quantity, and in pipe tobacco, that is aromatics.
This is why I was think very small batch, maybe 500 lbs. They would probably have to be flue cured, because a single crop burley would be boring as hell. This is probably why McClelland focused so hard on the many varieties and way of working with Virginias as they did.
 
I guess when ever I hear the term "premium" I know that usually it means absolutely nothing. There's no scientific means to the word. People can put that word on anything they like. Lol
Well, yes, and no. It can be for most thing an artificial construct. But, lets say... a premium soil is one that supplies the perfect amount of nutrients for the crop you want to grow. The same soil may suck for growing a different crop. Here the crop is our taste buds. In cigars the majority of cigars are trying to be meet the objective of a Cuban. Yes, many don't. But there are many, the majority, that do. In pipe tobaccos, it may be that we just don't have an objective.
 
Aug 11, 2022
2,638
20,736
Cedar Rapids, IA
More plugs for Opening Night; I'll definitely have to add that to my next order. :)

But it's an interesting discussion topic. Is there another tobacco product besides cigars where the top-tier products are expected not to include flavorings or other "doctoring"? It seems like that's the anomaly where everything else has been made smoother or artificially flavored to gain wide acceptance.

At the risk of poking the bear, perhaps cigars with (obvious) flavoring have been just slower to move upmarket, and will eventually be considered premium? puffy
 
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And to piggy back, I've seen "premium" pipe tobacco at gas stations....
There is a book about a guy who goes freaking crazy thinking about what quality and things like premium are, in a philosophical sense. The book is called, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Great book. You don't even have to like motorcycles, ha ha.
 
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