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More plugs for Opening Night; I'll definitely have to add that to my next order. :)

But it's an interesting discussion topic. Is there another tobacco product besides cigars where the top-tier products are expected not to include flavorings or other "doctoring"? It seems like that's the anomaly where everything else has been made smoother or artificially flavored to gain wide acceptance.

At the risk of poking the bear, perhaps cigars with (obvious) flavoring have been just slower to move upmarket, and will eventually be considered premium? puffy
I think that flavored cigars have a market, and many consider them premium. They just don't fit into the aficionado construct, where pretentious judges deem ratings to how closely they reach the Cuban standard. I mean, as we see, retailers will rate them, because they want to sell them, but they don't make the cut for how closely they reach Cuban standards. I know, I know... it's pretentious. I really like many of the dark fired cigars and Italian cigars more than the Cubans, myself.

As far as other products, beers have many categories where the compete for top billing for the year. They also have flavored categories,. like session beers and such. I really don't know the specifics.

Cheeses. Hell, the whole idea of a State Fair is for farmers to get their products rated, ranked, and win ribbons.

Cotton and steel are graded as well.
 
Yeah, I know that with beer, being compliant with the Reinheitsgebot laws has been very important to some producers and consumers, and no doubt was a requirement for many competitions. There are definitely some great beers coming out of those guidelines, but the beer-drinking world would be a much poorer place if everyone had to follow them!
Certainly, and I wouldn't want pipe tobacco to be limited to just my presented idea of premium.
Besides, we need aromatics to keep drawing in the 12 year olds, to get them hooked, ha ha. JK JK
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,463
I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance eons ago and thought it was good. Though not a motorcycle guy myself, I was interested enough in the image to wish he had extended the image a little more and strengthened the philosophy with more about the motorcycle. It was a good image, and he used it well, but maybe not enough. He was obviously getting into the philosophy and maybe just riding the bikes.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,864
29,735
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
It's kind of like the art and big A Art discussion. What makes something that critics and scholars rave about it and say now this is important. What makes it just a pretty painting to put up over some bodies couch. How come in his time Shakespeare was entertainment for the masses with ribald jokes including ones about farts and drunken impotence, but now it's so important every high schooler has to learn about it? This premium pipe tobacco seems to hit me in a similar way.
 
It's kind of like the art and big A Art discussion. What makes something that critics and scholars rave about it and say now this is important. What makes it just a pretty painting to put up over some bodies couch. How come in his time Shakespeare was entertainment for the masses with ribald jokes including ones about farts and drunken impotence, but now it's so important every high schooler has to learn about it? This premium pipe tobacco seems to hit me in a similar way.
I didn't think this hypothetical tobacco was going to appeal to everyone. puffy
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,811
45,471
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
It's kind of like the art and big A Art discussion. What makes something that critics and scholars rave about it and say now this is important. What makes it just a pretty painting to put up over some bodies couch. How come in his time Shakespeare was entertainment for the masses with ribald jokes including ones about farts and drunken impotence, but now it's so important every high schooler has to learn about it? This premium pipe tobacco seems to hit me in a similar way.
Keep in mind that much of that ribald material was written into the first 15 to 20 minutes while the audience was still milling about and yakking away. It was sort of a pre-show.
 

MikeDub

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 26, 2022
258
764
SoCal
I don't think that just tasting my own influences my opinion. Try a tin of C&D Opening Night. Jeremy has said that it is totally uncased. You can decide. I prefer my pipe tobaccos to be as close to just plain pipe tobacco as possible, but that doesn't mean that I don't occasionally smoke an aromatic or one that I know is cased.
Just ponder'n, ha ha.
I love Opening Night and buy it by the pound. Whether or not the lack of casing makes it premium is relative to Samuel Gawith or Capstan or whoever is in the eye of one buying it.

I also think there is something to the fact that over centuries of pipe smoking, tobacco blenders have landed on using casings on pipe tobacco for reasons that don't just boil down to transport or longevity concerns given the technologies available to them at this time (or even for decades at this point)

All that being said, would I pay a ridiculous amount for a tin of pure virginia flakes that were single farm, premium, organic, whatever? Absolutely - at least once
 

Hillcrest

Lifer
Dec 3, 2021
2,797
13,477
Bagshot Row, Hobbiton
It’s interesting how the premium pipe tobaccos don’t follow the same quality characteristics as other “premium” products that are based on agriculture.

I know that cigars are vastly different from pipe tobacco. Cigars, or most of the top end cigars are based on meeting the qualities and Characteristics of Cuban based cigars. Like 90% are all trying to copy the Cuban model. But, even in the stogies that are unique from the Cuban model, the quality is still based on a few objectives shared in other products. If any flavoring is added, it definitely reduces its value and demand.

In wines, single crops, no added chemicals to speed the process, and relying completely on the natural process is what makes a top tier wine. I mean, there are blends, those that were filtered, and have added chemicals to speed the process to meet the market demands, but these are not the top tier wines that are most sought after in auctions. And, add any flavorings to a wine, and it gets relegated to the below $10 wines sold on the bottom shelf of grocery stores; MD20/20, Arbor Mist, Barefoot blends, Stella Rosa, etc…

Bourbons are actually government regulated to be kept “pure” in quality. To sell a product in the USA labeled Bourbon, it has to be more than 50% corn, no added flavors or chemicals, made in the US, and aged in new, charred, oak barrels for at least 2 years. They can aged them in sherry barrels afterwards, but other than this, any variation from these rules, delegates it down to a whiskey.

Years ago, Greg Pease tried to market this idea of pipe tobaccos being pure, no added flavorings and such. Mark Ryan picked up on this also, but then after time went by, they both swayed away from this idea. Nowadays, the most sought after pipe tobaccos are a majority of heavily cased or aromatic. Esoterica and their licorice and treacle flavorings. Greg now sops on the spirits and has even contacted GH&co to have their aromatic juice made for a blend. Even FVF has a juice added to it.

I know that mold is an issue that has pipe tobacco manufacturers concerned. Mark Ryan had went back to the old notion of the historical keeping the tobacco dry for us to reduce this without having to add antifungals. Of course this bothered many of the pipe smokers that6 see this new notion of wet assed blends being the norm now. But, it hasn’t always been this way.

I think that the only company that still entertains this idea that I am presenting is C&D. Still blends like Opening Night and Virginia Flake are still kept unadulterated with casings, but yet the masses still look to sloppy juiced blends as the top tier tobaccos. McClelland gave us a few single crop blends, and helped McCrannies supply a tobacco that fell closest to what we see as top tier products in wine. Single crop products that will sway in flavors from year to year, naturally processed with no added flavorings. Just let time and nature work its magic. Of course some haters will never believe that they didn’t just slop vinegar on their leaf… whatever.

But, is it marketing, consumers’ lower expectations, or just money that prevents this notion of a purity in the product from taking hold?
Hell, even perique has a close purity expectation, misguidedly placed on location. But, even with perique, blenders slop their VaPer blends down with casing and topping.

Why do you think that this notion of premium pipe tobacco hasn’t taken hold strongly in pipe tobaccos?
My guess is that pipe smokers are more discerning and have individual rather than general tastes and do not fall as easily for marketing gimics. Premium can be an overused description and may not apply to tobacco as well as other items. Maybe you mean 'pure' rather than premium. With regard to your alcohol analogy, I heard a talk show one day, while waiting for someone, about Vodka which has a specific method and chemical formula ... the hosts decided to test (send out to lab) 5 premium brands and one cheap brand. The chemical analysis revealed the premium brands were not vodka but flavored alcohol and the cheapo brand was 100% pure healthy vodka !

Maybe someone could analyze the tobaccos to find out how pure they are ??? Maybe Lane 1Q really is the best !! ;):ROFLMAO:
 

mortonbriar

Lifer
Oct 25, 2013
2,684
5,733
New Zealand
In regards to the opening question...

I really don't think it is much more complicated than marketing. Smoking has had such a strong link with marketing for a very long time, each blend scrambling over each other to insist they are 'smooth' and 'biteless' and 'mellow' etc etc. Using descriptives like 'premium' is a natural progression on the part of the brand.
 

renfield

Lifer
Oct 16, 2011
4,346
32,646
Kansas
Speaking only about the “hobby” side of pipe tobacco it may be that the notion of premium hasn’t taken off because we have so many blends that are implicitly considered “premium enough” that we don’t generally demand a premium category.

Pipe tobacco doesn’t seem to have ever had that sense of being a luxury product, regardless of the quality of blends. Without the “luxury” it’s harder to sell “premium”.

In order to get the notion of premium to take off as a category the blends would have to differentiate themselves strongly enough in terms of flavor to clearly stand alone to the consumer. Hard to do with straight blends. If someone could truly replicate McClelland reds they would have a marketing hook and an audience.
 
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My guess is that pipe smokers are more discerning and have individual rather than general tastes and do not fall as easily for marketing gimics. Premium can be an overused description and may not apply to tobacco as well as other items. Maybe you mean 'pure' rather than premium. With regard to your alcohol analogy, I heard a talk show one day, while waiting for someone, about Vodka which has a specific method and chemical formula ... the hosts decided to test (send out to lab) 5 premium brands and one cheap brand. The chemical analysis revealed the premium brands were not vodka but flavored alcohol and the cheapo brand was 100% pure healthy vodka !

Maybe someone could analyze the tobaccos to find out how pure they are ??? Maybe Lane 1Q really is the best !! ;):ROFLMAO:
Maybe premium is the wrong word. I know what you mean though, but I’m just not sure what to call it.
 
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vosBghos

Lifer
May 7, 2022
1,540
3,394
Idaho
Which is sad.
I wonder if a farmer could start producing single crop premium tobaccos in maybe like 500 lbs quantities, and maybe get C&D to market it for them. Like, make the tins, $100 a tin. If it bothers a layman, fuck 'em. We're talking top tier, and there is always gonna be whiners and haters that complain because it excludes them.
If enough farmers could participate, they could have tastings and awards...
Feel this is heading into Semois territory and that would be a good thing from farm to shelf, there has to be a market for more of this niche type of tobacco.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,811
45,471
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Speaking only about the “hobby” side of pipe tobacco it may be that the notion of premium hasn’t taken off because we have so many blends that are implicitly considered “premium enough” that we don’t generally demand a premium category.

Pipe tobacco doesn’t seem to have ever had that sense of being a luxury product, regardless of the quality of blends. Without the “luxury” it’s harder to sell “premium”.

In order to get the notion of premium to take off as a category the blends would have to differentiate themselves strongly enough in terms of flavor to clearly stand alone to the consumer. Hard to do with straight blends. If someone could truly replicate McClelland reds they would have a marketing hook and an audience.
Thinking back to when I started smoking about 1970 - 71, there were absolutely brands that were marketed and perceived as "luxury" and "premium brands, like Dunhill and Sobranie Ltd, to name just two very obvious examples that would be known to current smokers.

A lot of this revolved around Turkish cigarettes and to a lesser extent pipe tobaccos. I loved smoking Chaliapin cigarettes from Sobranie and had to ration them as they cost multiple times what a pack of American cigarettes cost. But the flavors were full, rich, and creamy, far and away beyond the average cigarette. A box, no shitty packs, would cost me several hours wages.

People who weren't smoking then have absolutely no idea of the sheer quality that was available. We didn't have the quantity. No 6 to 7,000 available blends, many of which pretty much tasted like each other, which was the situation just a few years ago. It was a different world.
 
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