Pipe Tobacco is no Good Anymore/Better Than Before

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

You don't need enough for the rest of your life...you only need enough until the AI robots show up at your door.

Yep. That's absolutely true.

 

[VDL_Piper]

I haven't seen anyone extolling the virtues of their cellar or post count for that matter, also didn't realise that this was a competition. What I do see is pipe journeymen who have seen a lot and then some and at times loose their filter on many posts simple because the same is regurgitated ad nauseam and the search function seems to be forgotten by so many on here. On blends, well yes they have changed, are they lesser.......maybe but they are still there to be enjoyed and we are all lucky that is the case as it's far easier for blenders to walk away in this difficult climate rather than try to exist.

That said pipe smoking is about you, your pipe and what it means to you and this is fast becoming a lost art which is clearly highlighted by newcomers inability to light their pipe let alone smoke it in a nirvana like state of contemplation. This is no slight against you or your posts but I would urge all new and even some older pipe smokers to look inward not out and enjoy this wonderful pastime.

 

[fireground_piper]

It's been all down hill since the tobacco inspection acts were repealed in 1641. Up until then, they'd pull your license for growing if you were growing crap.

It's just never been the same since.

 

[OverMountain]

Well, I don't have enough years in this to render a definitive opinion, but...

When the era of hand-picking tobacco ended, so did the practice of selective harvesting, of picking leaf by position and according to ripeness. This more or less coincided with the demise of the tobacco auctions in the US. where manufacturers would compete for the premium crops. And so ended the farmer's work to grow the best crop possible, because their harvest was already sold before it was planted. At the same time, USDA crop subsidies for tobacco were discontinued, as the bottom fell out of the US cigarette market due to consumer's health concerns. A perfect storm of mediocrity.

People still prime tobacco by hand. I may have missed it but I don’t know of another way. Lugs are the bottom leaf, cutters are the mid section and tips are the small leafs up top of the stalk.

 

[Servant King]

you only need enough until the AI robots show up at your door.

But isn't that right now? Last I looked, the only discernible difference between humans and AI robots is the affinity for the Kardashians.

 

[NookersTheCat]

You answered my question. I asked for evidence. You respond with post count envy, and Halo.

Hmph.. you're definitely misunderstanding me if you thought it was envy.. we may just not be able to effectively communicate with one another.

My point was it's a part of an unattractive attitude of superiority I've seen more of lately on pipe boards by some, and the reason I got off other boards for other hobbies I have... and something it always seemed (at least to me, maybe I was just naive) that piping was far more immune to. Idk.

I would say take it or leave it but again It's seeming to me you're gonna make the effort to disagree to pretty much everything I seem to say (like blithely insulting that I partake in the odd videogame session with friends lol) that I mentioned only in order to excuse myself from the discussion, so... I think I'm just gonna permanently excuse myself from ours 🫡

 

[Zamora]

Well, I don't have enough years in this to render a definitive opinion, but...

When the era of hand-picking tobacco ended, so did the practice of selective harvesting, of picking leaf by position and according to ripeness. This more or less coincided with the demise of the tobacco auctions in the US. where manufacturers would compete for the premium crops. And so ended the farmer's work to grow the best crop possible, because their harvest was already sold before it was planted. At the same time, USDA crop subsidies for tobacco were discontinued, as the bottom fell out of the US cigarette market due to consumer's health concerns. A perfect storm of mediocrity.

Yep and the end of auctions is a major reason the McNeils cited for why they decided to close McClelland rather than sell, it was no longer possible to micromanage production so they knew the quality would never be the same.

 

[Zamora]

Currently, farming of any type is not financially viable without massive state-sponsored subsidy. As with most other crops, consolidation of industrial scale production has turned to mechanization domestically and in particular in emerging markets overseas.

The purpose of a company is to maximize its profits by manufacturing a product as cheaply as possible and selling as much of it as possible. To the extent, if any, that product quality constitutes a market pressure, manufacturers will maintain premium products or lose customers. Absent that pressure, the bottom line is a race to the bottom.

Since the OP brought up alcohol, I think Bass Ale (and several others) are a good example. Bass was a premium ale as late as the 80s - 90s. It was sold to Interbrew, Anheuser-Busch, and is now made by Coors (Molson). I gave up drinking long ago, but way before then I gave up drinking Bass, Newcastle, Boddington's, and Pilsener Urquell because, to my taste, they are a pale shadow of their former selves. It's been a few decades, so I gather the differences transcend "seasonal variation" in hops and barley, and (again, in my opinion) likely represent a race to the bottom to produce more beer, more cheaply.

Like brewing, tobacco production has become more vertical and less diverse, with less hand-intensive labor and meticulous craft in practice. Tobacco production involves raw material and process, and while the process may remain unchanged, I personally challenge the notion that all tobaccos are equal, particularly where it concerns Virginias. From a manufacturing perspective it may seem tempting to view tobacco as a substrate, essentially cellulose fiber, that you can spray with syrups and flavors and create a desirable product.

People might buy it, but if you've ever eaten farm-to-table you know that two chefs reading the same recipe will make vastly different products if one focuses on sourcing quality ingredients for their cuisine. If you've ever traveled to France or Amish country and tasted the butter and asked yourself "why does my butter suck?!" you'll have some idea what I mean.

You're not a snob for expecting more from your tobacco, or your butter or your beer. Don't be gaslit into thinking otherwise.

Yeah that happens a lot with beer. Microbreweries and other regional independent operations get bought up by conglomerates who more often than not give them the STG treatment. The difference is with beer there's always going to be new craft brewers to replace the ones who got bought out, so long as the government doesn't impose more red tape and there isn't a serious drop in demand for beer.

 

[Pipe & a walk]

Current pipe tobacco blends seem relatively stagnant. Blenders like Per Jenson and Hans Wiedemann blend together the best recipes that can with the ingredients available. But from what I see, there is little effort being made to development higher quality ingredients. The cigar world puts great emphasis on farming the most flavorful, highest quality tobacco strains. There's a similar emphasis by hop farms to develop and grow the most flavorful strains of hops for craft beer. My sense is that pipe tobacco farming does not put the same emphasis on producing the most luxurious quality of product that they can grow. Innovation wise, pipe tobacco feels like it has more in common with crops like corn and soybeans than it has in common with cigar tobacco farming. I don't believe 'cigar tobacco' pipe blends use top quality cigar tobacco, nor do I think cigar tobacco is necessarily the best suited for pipe smoking. How great can pipe tobacco be if humans put their mind to producing the best? Who knows? I may be wrong, but I'd say there's a lot of room for improvement.


It feels like we are not on a good trajectory with the offerings like W.O. Larsen Hand Pressed @$1000 a tin.

Was STG really trying to trick us into believing that they had developed a true luxury product, when it wasn't that at all? This was a lazy attempt to capture the luxury market, and consumers were not fooled by it.

 

[sablebrush52]

Current pipe tobacco blends seem relatively stagnant. Blenders like Per Jenson and Hans Wiedemann blend together the best recipes that can with the ingredients available. But from what I see, there is little effort being made to development higher quality ingredients. The cigar world puts great emphasis on farming the most flavorful, highest quality tobacco strains. There's a similar emphasis by hop farms to develop and grow the most flavorful strains of hops for craft beer. My sense is that pipe tobacco farming does not put the same emphasis on producing the most luxurious quality of product that they can grow. Innovation wise, pipe tobacco feels like it has more in common with crops like corn and soybeans than it has in common with cigar tobacco farming. I don't believe 'cigar tobacco' pipe blends use top quality cigar tobacco, nor do I think cigar tobacco is necessarily the best suited for pipe smoking. How great can pipe tobacco be if humans put their mind to producing the best? Who knows? I may be wrong, but I'd say there's a lot of room for improvement.


It feels like we are not on a good trajectory with the offerings like W.O. Larsen Hand Pressed @$1000 a tin.

Was STG really trying to trick us into believing that they had developed a true luxury product, when it wasn't that at all? This was a lazy attempt to capture the luxury market, and consumers were not fooled by it.

There’s very good pipe tobacco leaf being grown, just not here. The privately issued blend I received composed of components sourced from Wesley’s in South Africa is one such.
As Woodsroad pointed out earlier in thread, loss of subsidies led to growers using more economical methods for harvesting that degrade the result, or result in growers turning to more profitable, less labor intensive crops.
There’s not the same interest in producing a luxury product that there was decades ago, when firms like Dunhill, Rattray’s and McConnell produced blends that used high quality leaf and considerable processing and aging prior to release.
It may be that there isn’t a sufficiently large market to support luxury pipe tobacco. People grumble about paying $15 for 50 grams. It’s unlikely that they’re going to be willing to pay $25 to $30 for 50 grams of a higher quality product.
Still, HU blends are pretty good. KBV puts out some very good micro batch blends.
STG’s mantra is efficiency and high profitability, not quality above all else.
There’s also an effect of consolidation, as individual blenders are bought up. The quality slide of the 90’s coincided with consolidation.
With pipe tobacco as with many other things, bigger isn’t necessarily better.

 

[woodsroad]

Yeah that happens a lot with beer. Microbreweries and other regional independent operations get bought up by conglomerates who more often than not give them the STG treatment. The difference is with beer there's always going to be new craft brewers to replace the ones who got bought out, so long as the government doesn't impose more red tape and there isn't a serious drop in demand for beer.

Beer is evil.
If you have to use it, don’t inhale.

 

[Zamora]

Current pipe tobacco blends seem relatively stagnant. Blenders like Per Jenson and Hans Wiedemann blend together the best recipes that can with the ingredients available. But from what I see, there is little effort being made to development higher quality ingredients. The cigar world puts great emphasis on farming the most flavorful, highest quality tobacco strains. There's a similar emphasis by hop farms to develop and grow the most flavorful strains of hops for craft beer. My sense is that pipe tobacco farming does not put the same emphasis on producing the most luxurious quality of product that they can grow. Innovation wise, pipe tobacco feels like it has more in common with crops like corn and soybeans than it has in common with cigar tobacco farming. I don't believe 'cigar tobacco' pipe blends use top quality cigar tobacco, nor do I think cigar tobacco is necessarily the best suited for pipe smoking. How great can pipe tobacco be if humans put their mind to producing the best? Who knows? I may be wrong, but I'd say there's a lot of room for improvement.


It feels like we are not on a good trajectory with the offerings like W.O. Larsen Hand Pressed @$1000 a tin.

Was STG really trying to trick us into believing that they had developed a true luxury product, when it wasn't that at all? This was a lazy attempt to capture the luxury market, and consumers were not fooled by it.

I think the problem is most of the growers of pipe tobacco also grow it for cigarettes and chew / dip and those are far more lucrative, which is inevitable without subsidies. The cigar tobacco farms are only growing it for cigars so they can focus on making it optimal for that sole use. A major difference with cigars is that the leaves have to serve a specific role in the structure of the cigar, pipe and cigarette tobacco doesn't have to worry about that. I've never had any cigar leaf pipe blends (there's a few I want to try) but I'd imagine most of the time it's stuff that was culled, like wrapper leaf that wasn't aesthetic enough.

There’s very good pipe tobacco leaf being grown, just not here. The privately issued blend I received composed of components sourced from Wesley’s in South Africa is one such.
As Woodsroad pointed out earlier in thread, loss of subsidies led to growers using more economical methods for harvesting that degrade the result, or result in growers turning to more profitable, less labor intensive crops.
There’s not the same interest in producing a luxury product that there was decades ago, when firms like Dunhill, Rattray’s and McConnell produced blends that used high quality leaf and considerable processing and aging prior to release.
It may be that there isn’t a sufficiently large market to support luxury pipe tobacco. People grumble about paying $15 for 50 grams. It’s unlikely that they’re going to be willing to pay $25 to $30 for 50 grams of a higher quality product.
Still, HU blends are pretty good. KBV puts out some very good micro batch blends.
STG’s mantra is efficiency and high profitability, not quality above all else.
There’s also an effect of consolidation, as individual blenders are bought up. The quality slide of the 90’s coincided with consolidation.
With pipe tobacco as with many other things, bigger isn’t necessarily better.

Who made that blend for you?

 

[sablebrush52]

I think the problem is most of the growers of pipe tobacco also grow it for cigarettes and chew / dip and those are far more lucrative, which is inevitable without subsidies. The cigar tobacco farms are only growing it for cigars so they can focus on making it optimal for that sole use. A major difference with cigars is that the leaves have to serve a specific role in the structure of the cigar, pipe and cigarette tobacco doesn't have to worry about that. I've never had any cigar leaf pipe blends (there's a few I want to try) but I'd imagine most of the time it's stuff that was culled, like wrapper leaf that wasn't aesthetic enough.

Who made that blend for you?

Erine Q - But he didn't source the ingredients, which were sourced by member of a "society" of which I am a member. But don't ask about that, because I won't answer.

 

[Choatecav]

Woodsroad has hit the nail squarely on the head. Machine harvesting is efficient but it mixes ripened leaf with not ready for prime time leaf. So as a result, quality has dropped.
That doesn’t mean that there’s no quality leaf being grown, but it appears to be largely in other countries where hand picking still continues and the leaf develops bolder flavors.

Having been a pipe smoker since 1971, I can attest that in my experience the overall quality has declined, but every era has its wins and losses. Crap has always been around. The average blends of the ‘70’s and 80’s had a richness and smoothness that is very rare today, and you won’t experience it by picking up a 30 or 40 year old tin of legendary “whatsis”.

Modern versions of age old blends are faint ghosts of the originals.

On the other hand, there are many blend types, like matured Red Virginias, that came into their own later, and inventiveness has brought a great many interesting and enjoyable blends to market in recent times.

There’s also increased access to imported blends made by talented blenders, using empire leaf, that are excellent.

The other part of this is that people imprint on the products available to them. They enjoy the blends they have and calibrate between excellent and meh with those blends.

It’s kinda useless to bang on about long gone tobaccos. You’re not going to be smoking them.

The best of times and the worst of times relate to your times.

1971!!!! Jesse, do you realize that when you started puffing a pipe, Duane Allman was still alive and playing for the Brothers?? Wow!!

That said, I am hard pressed to think of a single activity that has improved in quality and enjoyment due to the entrance of mechanization. There's a reason they call them "the good old days."

 

[SSGT.]

I agree with Woodsroad when the farmers do not have to compete for the blender's dollar the grow as much as you can as cheap as you can mentality takes over.

However, there are still some very good growers and blenders out there, just not as many as there used to be. Finding them is part of the fun of pipe smoking today, and the reason we share so much on these pages. Like a relaxing bike ride, it's about the journey the destination is secondary.

 

[brian64]

1971!!!! Jesse, do you realize that when you started puffing a pipe, Duane Allman was still alive and playing for the Brothers?? Wow!!

Groucho was still alive too!!! (the Brothers were pretty much defunct though)

 

[greeneyes]

Tobacco shortages have apparently been the norm, in particular due to excess rain in Brazil and drought in Africa. Several similar sources say the same thing. Apparently there are no tobacco reserves and everything sells out almost immediately. In other words, if you want to stay in business you're likely buying what you can, and not necessarily shopping around for high-quality leaf that's sitting around waiting to be bought up.

Zimbabwe, Brazil Shortfalls Turns Boon for Indian Exporters

It appears that tobacco supplies simply don’t get out of the hole. First, there was Covid-19 that decreased harvests...

www.tobaccoasia.com

 

[Pipe & a walk]

a "society" of which I am a member. But don't ask about that, because I won't answer.

Damn Illuminati's hoarding all the good stuff!

 

[Pipe & a walk]

Duane Allman was still alive and playing for the Brothers??

I always thought Dickey Betts carried Duane and Greg

 

[Choatecav]

I always thought Dickey Betts carried Duane and Greg

Well, "carried" might be a bit strong, but he was a major part of their sound. One of the greatest guitarists that have ever played. I was fortunate to meet him on a plane once. He was very humble and nice. Very nice person.