P&C Doubles Prices on Esoterica Bags

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woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
12,648
20,178
SE PA USA
The day may come when there are products that you can only get from pipesandcigars.com. They are Scandinavian Tobacco (Swedish Match, General Cigar) and they own a good percentage of the world's tobacco brands. Further, they exercise considerable muscle in the wholesale supply chain. So, while you may take your business to another online retailer, as long as you are buying their brands, it doesn't really make a lot of difference to them.
I'm not saying this is good or bad. It just is.

 

craig94yj

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 24, 2013
256
0
Waterford, Ct
Supply and Demand = We will supply it but we demand this for it. If P&C's "Distributor" has raised their price of getting it for their retailers, then you will obviously have a trickle down effect. If a retailer has it on their shelf from a previous order then perhaps that is why their price is still low. Keep an eye out after their stock depletes. As far as thinking the price will go down if you stop buying it, that remains to be seen. It will depend on each companies capitol. As we all know, the tobacco is not going to spoil if it sits on the shelf for months, years or even decades. The question is can you maintain your overhead while you let it sit and appreciate in value? A couple bad crop years and the shelved stuff will skyrocket. I have never tried Esoterica, so I am not missing anything. I feel for you all.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,641
Chicago, IL
@craig94yj -- I'm not in the loop, as they say, but I think businesses must pay a recurrent floor tax on their inventory. This makes it expensive to stockpile more product than a business can sell in any given time frame. So, while tobacco won't spoil, there is a government disincentive to let a product sit on the shelves. Maybe someone with a business background can explain the theory. I think it is supposed to prevent a business from hoarding inventory as a hedge against inflation.

 

dottle

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 1, 2012
230
3
Well, this was the line drawn in the sand for me and P&C,,to many other good online retailers to trade with that wont pilfer my billfold.

 
Honestly, who gives a poop what anyone thinks. Online commerce totally changes the game of retail, from what we grew up with. The reason most buy from P&C is that there prices on pipes beats anyone else's, and they roll out specials on certain brands occasionally that appeals to the hoarders. I never speak to anyone there. I just hit buttons like a trained monkey and three days latter it arrives. I have no idea who Russ is, and never has anyone from their business addressed me directly on any issue. The internet makes customer service moot, unless of course you have a problem. And, time and time again, businesses prove that consumers have total short-term memory. So, you don't like the price of one little thing. Wait till you're looking for your next Peterson PAD.
Now, my local B&M... I walk in, they know my name, and they know what I smoke. He even knows my girlfriend, and knows what to suggest to her to buy me for my birthday. He occasionally orders a particular pipe with me in mind. They offer me a bottle of water and leather couches and great atmosphere to socialize and trade thoughts on whatever we happen to be smoking. Sure, I pay three -five dollars more for a tin that I could order from an online vendor, but 15-20$ tins are keeping alive a sanctuary for pipe smokers. I think that's more than a fair price.
It's happening in all sorts of retail, especially hobbyists. Someone gets a rental storage place and starts up a dot-com business, the prices makes it so that shopping at a B&M is stupid, and we lose valuable resources. It's not just tobacco and pipes, but remote control hobbyist, and basically all of the hobby shops. But, we never think about what our greed is doing, until we've killed a thing. Once hobbyist have all gone online, we've lost the ability to just drive down the street to ask an expert for some quick advice.
Sorry, I know these dot-coms contribute to these forums, and I appreciate that. I am more waxing poetics for lost bricks and loose mortar. I think I'll drop by the Briary after work to burn one while setting in a leather wingback and spend way too much on a tin :D

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
611
I welcome the $50 price tag if it makes the stock more readily available. The right price may be even higher. Still, this is also probably true:
Yes they will make a few more dollars on their Esoterica supply, but the bad will they are now going to get will cost them way more in lost business than they will ever make from the price increase.
As it stands, it's only through the generosity of friends that I've had the chance to try Stonehaven (thanks, Peck) and Penzance. I've made a similar point before, but you can't buy Chateau Lafite for the same price as you'd pay for a bottle of Sutter Home white zin. Similarly, I don't know why it's expected that tobacco prices should be roughly the same for all brands.

 

piperl12

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 7, 2012
970
6
Well I guess from a Canadians point of view that is paying over $20.00 for a 50g tin of something decent, oh wait no that's not right we are paying $22.00 for a pouch of Captain Black that is if you can find a tobacco store or a corner store that carries tobacco at all that paying that for a BAG of quality tobacco is not that bad. I guess I would rather have the company make a profit and stay in business than it go to the tax man again. Having said that, I think doubling the prices over night does not make for good business. It is going to piss so many people off that on principle they will not buy other products from them. That coupled with the reports of poor customer service are going to make it very difficult for them to keep customers when there are excellent alternatives like 4noggins and smokingpipes. It will be interesting how it all turns out.

 

dervis

Lifer
Jan 30, 2012
1,597
3
Hazel Green AL
When they are the cheapest they are making good buisness decisions, when they raise prices they are being a bad friend.
Honestly it might not work out, they might have to change things back the way it was . It is a sound buisness decision to TRY and make more money. Maybe they can get enough to hire more employees (I will be happy to send an application part time).
There was also a post recently on crappy packing. MAYBE they have to hire better people, costing more money and tape. So maybe they have to raise prices, as we as public demanded a fix of issue.
They are not your friend, you didnt go pack boxes and help them move for beer and pizza. They are a buisness. I hope they make every single cent they can, and then find a way to make more. Good for them.

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,248
57,309
66
Sarasota Florida
Dervis, having owned my businesses for over 23 years now, I can emphatically state, that maximizing profits at the risk of pissing off your customers is not a smart business move. Sales from this one mfg is a drop in the bucket in comparison to all the other products they sell. By alienating your customers over a tiny amount of money, they risk losing customers to their competitors and those customers will never go back. If their costs went up, they should have done a small increase across the board that no one would bitch about, they should not double the price of a high profile mfg and risk the wrath of their loyal customer base. Image is extremely important in business and when you make yourself look greedy, it is just plain bad for business.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
12,648
20,178
SE PA USA
The day will soon be here when commercial tobacco is either taxed or regulated out of existence. Those who can will be growing their own.
For me, the day will come next year in late winter when I start seeds!

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
This must be one of the exciting changes that Russ promised in the wake of the Habana buyout by Cigars Int'l. LOL
Absolutely hilarious!
The new $49.95 price was chosen to cover our increased costs and allow us a reasonable return on our investment in time, effort, and money used to acquire it. LOL
Also absolutely hilarious!

 

craig94yj

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 24, 2013
256
0
Waterford, Ct
@ Cortez, I was inferring that any annual cost, including taxes, be grouped under overhead. The scenario may still not be a good one to keep it in stock.

 

briarfanatic

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jul 27, 2013
106
0
"I'm not in the loop, as they say, but I think businesses must pay a recurrent floor tax on their inventory. This makes it expensive to stockpile more product than a business can sell in any given time frame. So, while tobacco won't spoil, there is a government disincentive to let a product sit on the shelves. Maybe someone with a business background can explain the theory. I think it is supposed to prevent a business from hoarding inventory as a hedge against inflation."
*********
Pipe Tobacco is taxed at the FET (federal excise tax) and OTP (the state tax rate set up for other tobacco products). A floor tax only comes around after either an FET or OTP tax increase. There has not been an FET tax increase on pipe tobacco since 2009. Pennsylvania, where P&C is located, is the only state in the entire country that has a 0% OTP tax rate.
Now, besides this, I honestly don't care what a company charges for an item. If I don't agree with the selling price, I don't buy the item. Pipe tobacco is a luxury item that is not necessary for living. If the market demands this product, and the manufacturer cannot keep up with demand, then we have distributors that will increase selling price. P&C is a business that was created to make money. My guess is that after everyone buys from other online retailers and depletes all the lower priced product, they will then buy the remaining higher priced P&C product. After this happens, all we have is Ebay with $100.00+ bags. Looks like the Esoterica line is a good measuring stick as to the growing popularity of pipe tobacco. I still do not know if this is due to a huge increase in pipe smokers, or just hoarders, though. Possibly both.

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
462
I wonder if Esoterica really understands what is going on with the way their blends are sold over here. How would they react to learn that CI (owned by a competitor) is selling their product for, say, three times what Esoterica is supplying it for? I would write Esoterica an e-mail, but I believe they still use only carrier pigeon.


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
37
LOL at the carrier pigeon gif!!!
I like it!
What's that around his neck?

A pound of Stonehaven?!?!?!?

Send him here!

That damn bird is so cute, he needs a nickname!

.

.

Roth is correct.
Esoterica is owned by Arango Cigar Co., bought from Butera, bought from Steve Richman.
JFGermain is only the "white label" producer, fulfilling their contractual obligations,

whatever those may be, I'd be interested to see the fine print details!

 

tennsmoker

Lifer
Jul 2, 2010
1,157
8
Uh, what's the fuss and dust up? I smoked Stonehaven years back as well as Dorchester. I moved on. Yeah, great stuff, but maybe a little too rich for my tastes.
And, now I know it is too rich for my tastes. If an online retailer ups his or her price on something that I like, I either find another etailer with a lower price, or I switch to another tobacco. I'm not too particular.
And, I can always go to PA or Roth's Wal-Hall.
One more note: This is my take on the economics of all this, and yes, it is very simplistic: The government is taking the handle off the pump.
The FDA oversees a bureaucracy that charges tobacco manufacturers for the space they use to store their tobacco; they charge fees that seemingly come out of the thin air. Soon, we, the pipesmokers of the world, will be absorbing more and more of those fees as they are created out of the gargantuan building where the FDA hatches all of its subversive plots.
Until the handle comes off the pump (ref: English doctor in the 1700s or so discovered the townspeople were drinking water from the same pump and getting sick. He took the handle off the pump. End of sickness) The government uses this as an example metaphor when they are ending a thing deemed socially unacceptable.
And we, ladies and gentlemen, are socially unacceptable in today's environment.
Hoarding is not good. That drives up prices. Supply and demand economics 101.
But since I know very little about the agricultural tricks it takes to grow tobacco leaf, I will continue my current program of buying two tins and putting one up to age. I do know that tobacco is not something you just punch into the ground and then wait for a leaf to puff up and dry out and then you crunch into your pipe.
And, btw, I see less and less tobacco leaf in the fields of Tennessee where I live. Used to be tobacco was a "cash" crop for farmers. Now, there are fewer and fewer farmers around, and a real shortage of tobacco farmers.
I am trying to prepare in a sane, reasonable way. When I purchase an order of tobacco, I think of my fellow pipe smokers. I order two tins if I can afford it of anything that I am ordering. One tin goes into the cellar and one gets smoked. I have been doing this for years. I now have a cellar that will, I hope, take me to my grave in the style to which I have become accustomed.
I don't feel that I am a hoarder. I do consider the other pipe smokers out there. There should be enough for us all with the plethora of tobacco manufacturers available today.
Besides, I can't buy tobacco by the case. Two at a time has worked for me and still does. It isn't how much you earn, it's what you do with what you earn.
That's my two. Sorry to prattle on.

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
462
I always think of my fellow pipesmokers when I place an order as well. I love Lane aromatics, but I don't buy any because I would feel incredibly guilty if there was none left for the rest of you guys. No need to thank me.

 

cobguy

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
3,742
17
@msandoval: I here ya on the OpusX comparison! I spent a lot of time and money chasing down the elusive AF cigars. Later, I realized that for half the price there are some fine stogies.
Same with wine ... there are some inexpensive ones that are WAYYY better than their pricey counterparts.
I think that internet forums, in particular, have spun certain names into "The Holy Grail" of must haves ... and the sheep listen.
Use your own taste buds and never assume that the most expensive is the best.
Happy Smokin' :puffy:

 
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