Nicotine Test for Benefits at Work

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Jul 26, 2021
2,296
9,325
Metro-Detroit
Convincing the employer is one thing. Getting an insurance company to pay out on a claim is another.

I've seen numerous insurance claims denied for misrepresentation over something as seemingly nominal like an incorrect address. I've also seen social media used to deny insurance and other claims.
 
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olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,084
14,771
The Arm of Orion
Convincing the employer is one thing. Getting an insurance company to pay out on a claim is another.

I've seen numerous insurance claims denied for misrepresentation over something as seemingly nominal like an incorrect address. I've also seen social media used to deny insurance and other claims.
Yup, because insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums and not paying claims.

This whole thread is evidence aplenty of malfeasance from the insurer point of view. I can see them rubbing their hands.
 
May 2, 2018
3,932
30,391
Bucks County, PA
When I started smoking a pipe I simply declared myself a smoker on every insurance form available. It’s more premium (how much I’m unsure), but easier than worrying bout it. ☕
Now you got me nerding out here a little bit. The predominant enzyme involved in nicotine and cotinine metabolism is CYP2A6 where nicotine is metabolized primarily to cotinine, and cotinine primarily to trans-3'-hydroxycotinine. CYP2A6 has been suggested as a highly polymorphic gene because it is located in a small chromosomal region that contains several genes and some unequal crossover events, point mutations and genetic conversions between CYP2A6 and CYP2A7. Note these type of enzymes are located primarily in the liver as are many other enzymes that clear toxins form the body.

In seems Asians have a higher incidence of polymorphism leading to impaired CYP2A6 function. The frequencies of these alleles vary considerably among different ethnic populations, the deletion alleles being most common in Orientals (up to 20%). Studies in Japanese suggest that CYP2A6 poor metabolizer genotypes result in altered nicotine kinetics whereas similar studies in Caucasian populations have not revealed any clear associations between variant CYP2A6 genotypes and smoking behaviour.
 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,893
16,836
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
business of collecting premiums and not paying claims.
They are in the business of making moneys in order to pay shareholders and to satisfy clients. I've never seen so many people gathered in one place, here, with such bad judgement in picking an insurance provider. Wow! Does no one due their due dilligence any longer. What do you guys do? Those who purchase their own coverage, roll dice, flip coins, ask an uninformed buddy? Again, wow! Don't your states have insurance boards to oversee those companies operating in your state? Why do you tolerate such poor service?
 

JKoD

Part of the Furniture Now
May 9, 2021
810
8,626
IN
That would not appear to be accurate. It’s a nicotine test with a threshold. Someone chewing nicotine gum would potentially fail out of this plan. Chewing tobacco would potentially fail someone out of this threshold. The test is very specifically about nicotine levels in the urine. It’s literally what their are testing, he even posted the test results.
It’s 100% accurate. The threshold set is 20-30 times higher than what a non-tobacco user would show. Non-smokers exposed to second hand smoke would have some level, so they’ve set it to where it’s a reliable level to distinguish a smoker vs a non-smoker or tobacco user.

But you are looking at it as being under or over the threshold. The threshold is the determining factor in whether you are a tobacco user or not. Under - you aren’t. Over - you are. The threshold IS a reliable indicator of a tobacco user. Sure, nicotine replacement therapies (gum/patches) are likely to show. For that instance, you can ask for another test that can show it’s not from tobacco.

I guess the point is - you are simply trying to get the cheaper policy and better benefits by pausing your tobacco use for a short time only to do it again once you’ve passed. You appear to be working on justification as to how you are able to start smoking again after the test is negative. You don’t have to justify it with anyone here…but, you only opened a door for people to disagree with you. Bottom line - you tested as a non tobacco user, not a tobacco user under the acceptable nicotine threshold.

So, does your employer pick up more of your premium cost or do they also benefit from an overall lower premium?
 
Jan 30, 2020
1,997
6,572
New Jersey
It’s 100% accurate. The threshold set is 20-30 times higher than what a non-tobacco user would show. Non-smokers exposed to second hand smoke would have some level, so they’ve set it to where it’s a reliable level to distinguish a smoker vs a non-smoker or tobacco user.

But you are looking at it as being under or over the threshold. The threshold is the determining factor in whether you are a tobacco user or not. Under - you aren’t. Over - you are. The threshold IS a reliable indicator of a tobacco user. Sure, nicotine replacement therapies (gum/patches) are likely to show. For that instance, you can ask for another test that can show it’s not from tobacco.

I guess the point is - you are simply trying to get the cheaper policy and better benefits by pausing your tobacco use for a short time only to do it again once you’ve passed. You appear to be working on justification as to how you are able to start smoking again after the test is negative. You don’t have to justify it with anyone here…but, you only opened a door for people to disagree with you. Bottom line - you tested as a non tobacco user, not a tobacco user under the acceptable nicotine threshold.

So, does your employer pick up more of your premium cost or do they also benefit from an overall lower premium?
I didn’t do anything. My state has employee protections from discrimination regarding tobacco use from an employer.

Folks keep rambling on. My only point, which I have consistently repeated, is the company set a policy and an acceptable test for that policy. Anything else is moot.
 

JKoD

Part of the Furniture Now
May 9, 2021
810
8,626
IN
When I started smoking a pipe I simply declared myself a smoker on every insurance form available. It’s more premium (how much I’m unsure), but easier than worrying bout it. ☕

I also check the box - it is more expensive. I’d like to uncheck the box though… but, it’s harder to do that now because it’s now have your ever…not do you or don’t you currently.
 

Milleniumsmoker

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 9, 2020
177
305
Vietnam
I interviewed for a job that specifically asked if you smoked or not and if you did, they wouldn't employ you. They saw a picture of me online with one of my pipes. I didn't get the job. It's none of their business. People have all sorts of unhealthy habits. But you know what? It's my life. I never heard of someone unable to go to work because of pipe smoking and health related issues.

Let's turn the tables and start lighting up at work. If we do it en masse....well, we will all get fired, but at least we made a point!
 

chopper

Lifer
Aug 24, 2019
1,480
3,318
Yes, and if nicotine is detected in the test, I can still get "enhanced" coverage if I agree to participate in their "tobacco abatement program" - but will have to eventually get retested and produce a negative test, so I really want to get a clean result the first go.
No personal experience but I recall a post by a member a few years ago who was musing that as a result of blood tests for an insurance medical [that I think was testing for nicotine] he was classed as a non-smoker.
IIRC he only smoked a bowl or two a day.

Go for the blood test and you should pass okay.
Good luck.
 
May 2, 2018
3,932
30,391
Bucks County, PA
I interviewed for a job that specifically asked if you smoked or not and if you did, they wouldn't employ you. They saw a picture of me online with one of my pipes. I didn't get the job. It's none of their business. People have all sorts of unhealthy habits. But you know what? It's my life. I never heard of someone unable to go to work because of pipe smoking and health related issues.

Let's turn the tables and start lighting up at work. If we do it en masse....well, we will all get fired, but at least we made a point!
I appreciate your passion, but I’m a RN @ my local suburban ?. It wouldn’t really fly there. Sorry you got shafted outta that job cause of the pipe. Best you’d not work there anyways. ?☕
 

chopper

Lifer
Aug 24, 2019
1,480
3,318
I interviewed for a job that specifically asked if you smoked or not and if you did, they wouldn't employ you. They saw a picture of me online with one of my pipes. I didn't get the job. It's none of their business. People have all sorts of unhealthy habits. But you know what? It's my life. I never heard of someone unable to go to work because of pipe smoking and health related issues.

Let's turn the tables and start lighting up at work. If we do it en masse....well, we will all get fired, but at least we made a point!
Years ago there was a position vacant for several months for a radio room manager.
This was around the time where work places were starting to turn smoke free so I knew immediately why they couldn't fill the position.

It was advertised by a recruitment agency so I gave them a call to ask if the work premises had turned smoke free.
"Why yes, how did you know?" Well there's the problem and why you're unable to fill the position. Running a fleet of vehicles can get quite stressful at times. Every competent radio operator I've known was a smoker.
I've seen two radio operators who weren't smokers, just walk out and not come back when they couldn't cope.
 

Milleniumsmoker

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 9, 2020
177
305
Vietnam
Years ago there was a position vacant for several months for a radio room manager.
This was around the time where work places were starting to turn smoke free so I knew immediately why they couldn't fill the position.

It was advertised by a recruitment agency so I gave them a call to ask if the work premises had turned smoke free.
"Why yes, how did you know?" Well there's the problem and why you're unable to fill the position. Running a fleet of vehicles can get quite stressful at times. Every competent radio operator I've known was a smoker.
I've seen two radio operators who weren't smokers, just walk out and not come back when they couldn't cope.
I can attest to that, while I didn't work in that field, I have worked overnight where I needed to be awake, alert, and manage others. Smoking was obligatory in that situation.
 
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PoplarWight

Might Stick Around
Feb 13, 2022
88
604
Here I was thinking our smoking premiums were bad. This is crazy and invasive, afraid this will only get worse.
Insurance company/HR "health information" is always at least 10 years out of date. Our company had a "healthy food challenge" where they were still pushing the line that saturated fats are bad and recommending that you replace them with seed oils.
It's always humorous to actually look at the personal health of the people behind the "health and safety" recommendations.
 

JKoD

Part of the Furniture Now
May 9, 2021
810
8,626
IN
I didn’t do anything. My state has employee protections from discrimination regarding tobacco use from an employer.

Folks keep rambling on. My only point, which I have consistently repeated, is the company set a policy and an acceptable test for that policy. Anything else is moot.
Haha - you aren’t the OP, my fault!

Right - they did. But, it’s not moot. The conversation is just bigger than the policy alone. But - no one wins this conversation.

People have been cheating drug and alcohol tests for years. I wonder if people are buying fake urine now to pass tobacco/nicotine tests… ?‍♂️
 
Jan 28, 2018
13,280
141,529
67
Sarasota, FL
They are in the business of making moneys in order to pay shareholders and to satisfy clients. I've never seen so many people gathered in one place, here, with such bad judgement in picking an insurance provider. Wow! Does no one due their due dilligence any longer. What do you guys do? Those who purchase their own coverage, roll dice, flip coins, ask an uninformed buddy? Again, wow! Don't your states have insurance boards to oversee those companies operating in your state? Why do you tolerate such poor service?
The majority of the state insurance boards are run by former insurance company executives. You have the fox guarding the chicken house.
 

Jaylotw

Lifer
Mar 13, 2020
1,062
4,069
NE Ohio
Now you are thinking like a scientist!!!! You need it BQL (below quantifiable limits). Two weeks should be fine. Now if you were smoking weed you would be in trouble as THC depots in fatty tissue and sticks around a long damn time, esp if you are heavy
Four days for me, not that I know anything about that :LOL:

A heat treating plant I worked at did the same type of nicotine test for benefits. I didn't bother, but my supervisor quit cigs for a week and was clean enough to be below the cut off.