I thought about this you are all correct.The prices we are quoted as part of the EU includes 16% purchase tax.So the site we see is different to US buyers which would have different prices as in tax free.Europeans buy from Estervals because there are blends not available elsewhere.The main reason of course is that our purchases are delivered by DHL with 'Bruchgefahr' taped around the box with wine glass symbols, and no customs label!!
My Estervals Order Was Sent By USPS To Customs And Has been Shipped Back To Germany
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This has happened thrice to members of this forum, and I'd wager even more in the community at large.
The problem is incompetence and apathy at the USPS. No cog, no link, knows what the other is doing nor do they have control over the movement of a parcel once it's in the "system."
Having occurred enough times I think it warrants a special request from Esterval's, who has a vested interest in eliminating returns to the extent possible: print "American style*" labels on the boxes in large print.
Apparently the USPS can't be bothered to find and read the address as it is, printed on the customs form on the box, and would benefit from an obvious recipient label. Next time I order I'll insist that this extra labeling be done.
The problem is incompetence and apathy at the USPS. No cog, no link, knows what the other is doing nor do they have control over the movement of a parcel once it's in the "system."
Having occurred enough times I think it warrants a special request from Esterval's, who has a vested interest in eliminating returns to the extent possible: print "American style*" labels on the boxes in large print.
Apparently the USPS can't be bothered to find and read the address as it is, printed on the customs form on the box, and would benefit from an obvious recipient label. Next time I order I'll insist that this extra labeling be done.
Probably why they charge such high shipping prices is to make up for this type of stuff.
I placed an order with Estervals at the beginning of June. The package made it to my local post office in Arizona, and was then shipped back to Germany. Some lame excuse from USPS about a bad address. Estervals kindly sent it out again, and it then got held up at the New Jersey distribution center for 9 days. Its now in Phoenix, but I would not be surprised if it goes back to Germany again.
This is not the only customs-related problem I've had lately. Call me paranoid, but I believe that this has everything to do with the truly sad and shameful political situation that is currently affecting our federal government.
This is not the only customs-related problem I've had lately. Call me paranoid, but I believe that this has everything to do with the truly sad and shameful political situation that is currently affecting our federal government.
At which point in its journey was the decision to return it to Germany made? Was it at your local post office? In my case it was, and I suspect that's where the problem is.
I have lived in a few very different areas of the US, both very urban as well as very rural. I can vouch for the fact that the US post office functions much better in some places than others, like a night and day difference basically.
That is the truth. I’ve found that the USPS in large cities is far worse than in smaller cities.
Sorry to hear that Sable’s order is SNAFUed, thanks for the heads up and I hope things get sorted out.
The USPS, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. . .
Here's an update.
I contacted Esterval's to apprise them of the situation.
This is their response:
In other words, the package is in Customs in Germany in three days, not in six months. They will bill me for it being in Customs. Like hell I will pay it. After 6 weeks the package will be destroyed. Essentially it's my problem.
I wrote them back to tell them that I did not ask for the package to be returned and that I never received it. They are the shipper, and according to the USPS, the package was "insufficiently addressed". I also told them that as they are the shipper it's their responsibility to keep records of their shipments and that any fees are also their responsibility.
After that I contacted my credit card company and filed a dispute.
At this point, my account has been credited while an investigation is carried out by Chase. So for the moment it is Esterval's problem, though the decision could go against me.
There is no chance in hell that I will ever order anything from Estervals again.
You should be aware of the risks involved in ordering from Estervals.
I contacted Esterval's to apprise them of the situation.
This is their response:
In other words, the package is in Customs in Germany in three days, not in six months. They will bill me for it being in Customs. Like hell I will pay it. After 6 weeks the package will be destroyed. Essentially it's my problem.
I wrote them back to tell them that I did not ask for the package to be returned and that I never received it. They are the shipper, and according to the USPS, the package was "insufficiently addressed". I also told them that as they are the shipper it's their responsibility to keep records of their shipments and that any fees are also their responsibility.
After that I contacted my credit card company and filed a dispute.
At this point, my account has been credited while an investigation is carried out by Chase. So for the moment it is Esterval's problem, though the decision could go against me.
There is no chance in hell that I will ever order anything from Estervals again.
You should be aware of the risks involved in ordering from Estervals.
That entire situation is very unfortunate. I will say that I would anticipate the credit card dispute to go in your favor since you ordered the product but never received it. I have some business familiarity with credit card disputes and chargebacks, and credit card companies tend to side with their customers on these issues.
That is terrible service. I'm surprised, as I have an impression of Germans being far more "correct" in matters like this. They love nothing more than to follow rules and be correct.
I say this lovingly. My wife is German and I have spent a great deal of time there.
The shipping conditions listed on their page seems pretty clear. As you did not refuse the package, nor did you fail to claim it from somewhere, then it doesn't appear to be covered as a cost to you in the terms that they laid out.
I wouldn't want to do business with them after this, but for the sake of lessening the hassle on your end, if you gently point this out and explain that their terms do not cover this situation and that any costs (if there are any, which there probably won't be) should be paid by them. In short... remind them of the "rules" and they may comply.
Tough situation.
I say this lovingly. My wife is German and I have spent a great deal of time there.
The shipping conditions listed on their page seems pretty clear. As you did not refuse the package, nor did you fail to claim it from somewhere, then it doesn't appear to be covered as a cost to you in the terms that they laid out.
I wouldn't want to do business with them after this, but for the sake of lessening the hassle on your end, if you gently point this out and explain that their terms do not cover this situation and that any costs (if there are any, which there probably won't be) should be paid by them. In short... remind them of the "rules" and they may comply.
Tough situation.
It's an interesting problem. There's a lot of speculation in this thread, but the general consensus seems to be that it's the USPS's fault: that Esterval ships its packages properly and that the USPS claim that this is either an "improperly addressed" issue or a Customs issue is false.
Assuming that's the case I'm not sure why Esterval would ever take responsibility for packages which go astray. They don't run the U.S. post office (maybe they should), and it's unclear why they would essentially indemnify customers for failures of third parties beyond their control. The only reasons for Esterval to compensate anyone for a USPS screw-up is general kindness, or as a way of continuing to encourage orders from the U.S. In either case there's a limit to the cost they should incur to cover someone else's mistakes. I have no idea how important U.S. orders are to them, but unless the number is a measurable line on their income statement it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually said "screw it, this is more trouble than it's worth." This would hardly be unprecedented; think of eBay sellers or buyers who won't sell to or buy from certain countries. And now perhaps the U.S. gets added to that rarified company.
The obvious answer of course is insurance, but it would have to be general enough to cover any possible loss (i.e. not just lost packages, but packages that aren't delivered for any reason); and frankly I doubt that such insurance is available. And if by some miracle it is, it'd be too expensive relative to the purchase price. And if by some further miracle it's not, the policies would be withdrawn after a number of claims.
As for getting your money back from Chase, my experience has been different. Decades ago cardholders, especially of status T&E cards like Amex or Diners, could count on support in the case of a dispute with a vendor. In my personal experience those days are long, long gone. You can still initiate a dispute, but the presumption of right now favors the seller. And "proving" a case is tougher than ever since many if not most transactions don't involve physical presentation of a card and the creation of a signature for each purchase. That's not to say that charges can't be successfully challenged, just that I think it's tougher to prevail today than it was in years gone by. I'd be interested in hearing how this turns out, although I know it'll take weeks or months to resolve.
Assuming that's the case I'm not sure why Esterval would ever take responsibility for packages which go astray. They don't run the U.S. post office (maybe they should), and it's unclear why they would essentially indemnify customers for failures of third parties beyond their control. The only reasons for Esterval to compensate anyone for a USPS screw-up is general kindness, or as a way of continuing to encourage orders from the U.S. In either case there's a limit to the cost they should incur to cover someone else's mistakes. I have no idea how important U.S. orders are to them, but unless the number is a measurable line on their income statement it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually said "screw it, this is more trouble than it's worth." This would hardly be unprecedented; think of eBay sellers or buyers who won't sell to or buy from certain countries. And now perhaps the U.S. gets added to that rarified company.
The obvious answer of course is insurance, but it would have to be general enough to cover any possible loss (i.e. not just lost packages, but packages that aren't delivered for any reason); and frankly I doubt that such insurance is available. And if by some miracle it is, it'd be too expensive relative to the purchase price. And if by some further miracle it's not, the policies would be withdrawn after a number of claims.
As for getting your money back from Chase, my experience has been different. Decades ago cardholders, especially of status T&E cards like Amex or Diners, could count on support in the case of a dispute with a vendor. In my personal experience those days are long, long gone. You can still initiate a dispute, but the presumption of right now favors the seller. And "proving" a case is tougher than ever since many if not most transactions don't involve physical presentation of a card and the creation of a signature for each purchase. That's not to say that charges can't be successfully challenged, just that I think it's tougher to prevail today than it was in years gone by. I'd be interested in hearing how this turns out, although I know it'll take weeks or months to resolve.
I have ordered 5 times from Estervals to DE and DK and always had fast shipping, good packaging and generous additional tobacco 'gifts'. Of cause I know nothing about overseas shipping, but my impression is one of a well run and reliable business.
I have a different cut at it. Estervals accepts an order and contacts to deliver good to the purchaser. I'm not aware of any shipping options other than the ONE they offer. It isn't FOB shipping point. Estervals, IMHO, is responsible for delivering the product to the customers doorstep.
I believe estervals exports a fair amount of product to the USA. In fact, it would seem they ship a non trivial amount of product to the members of this forum. Given how they've handled this issue with Jesse, Estervals just kissed any future business from me goodbye. And I'll bet I'm not the only one.
I believe estervals exports a fair amount of product to the USA. In fact, it would seem they ship a non trivial amount of product to the members of this forum. Given how they've handled this issue with Jesse, Estervals just kissed any future business from me goodbye. And I'll bet I'm not the only one.
that has nothing to do with customs and everything to do with USPS incompetence
I sent a pipe to a member here a few months ago and it bounced around his locality being returned to a distrubution office 3 times.Eventually the member had to go and collect it as he was told the address was incorrect.
Guess what the address was 100% correct and printed in large letters
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