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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,086
50,826
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Back to the question of there being such a thing as engineering involved in pipe making, I offer this bit of info from the thread on interesting eBay auctions:
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/interesting-completed-ebay-auctions-british-pipes/page/5#post-1226170
I think that this construction, taking into account as it does the characteristics of the various materials being used, represents engineering.
As I wrote in the engineering thread, using the term engineering with regard to making a pipe may seem a bit highfalutin when compared to designing something as complex as a miniature nuclear reactor to power a pacemaker (a nice little project my father took on in his eighties) but that doesn't make it untrue.

 

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
10
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The debate is not over, as far as I am concerned. Just having people say, yes there is calculating involved and specific principles and laws of physics, does NOT prove anything. This is still in the realm of opinion. Until someone explains a little better what the calculations are in determining draft hole diameter to length, and what the predetermined goal is. Flow, pressure, resistance?
I use physics when putting in a fence post, using the hose to wash my car, the plumber uses all of this when plumbing my house. But, does that make me an engineer. With setting a fence post, you have to use leverage fulcrum to make sure that the hole is wide enough to whatever weight the concrete supplies, but I am not calculating this. I know that two feet deep is sufficient, more than. I have to use the same laws and principles when removing a bolt from an engine, but instead of calculating the amount of pressure I need to apply to the wrench, I just push or pull till it budges. Also, the bernoulli law is effecting my washing may car with the hose, but I am not calculating anything.
I am not saying that there are no pipemakers using math and laws to equate diameters to length ratios for whatever their predetermined goal is. I am just saying that out of all of the influential pipemakers that I have talked with at the Briary and all of the pipes that I have seen by makers seem to all use a predetermined diameter to drill the shank and the stem. Of course there is more to it all than that. But, if the length of the draft is variable from pipe to pipe, and the length of stem is variable, if the pipemaker is truly using math to get some goal, then the diameter would be varied. Otherwise, they are just doing similar to me setting a pole in the ground for a fence. And, there is nothing wrong with that. But, using the term "engineering" means that they are calculating to get a desired effect.
And, maybe some pipemakers do this. I don't doubt it. I am not posting to be an asshole, or to just argue. I truly enjoy this type of stuff, just as I would enjoy listening to engineers talk about balancing the new exhaust systm to the HP of the engine, or discussing calculating horsepower in general. Just as a car nut would enjoy this, pipe smokers would (I would think by the OP) enjoy listening to these engineering calculations being made. What is their goal? Is it flow, resistance, what is it? Enquiring minds....
Now, we can say that sure physics is involved. I don't doubt that. We can just calling people names for not just taking the experts at their word. But, ultimately, the question is not answered.
Pipes are amazing things. Simple, yet amazing. But, I know that there is much consideration put into these tools. I am not putting down pipemakers. I am just asking what is the difference between an engineered pipe to one built on tradition and attention to detail? What is the calculations being made, and could you explain how the calculations differ from a long pipe to a nosewarmer, and show me the evidence.
Sure, sure, discount the questioner as disingenuous, but before we all take your word on it, explain to us how engineering affects one pipe design differently from another.

 

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
10
With setting a fence post, you have to use leverage fulcrum to make sure that the hole is wide enough to whatever weight the concrete supplies, but I am not calculating this. I know that two feet deep is sufficient, more than. I have to use the same laws and principles when removing a bolt from an engine, but instead of calculating the amount of pressure I need to apply to the wrench, I just push or pull till it budges. Also, the bernoulli law is effecting my washing may car with the hose, but I am not calculating anything.
Ok, so, let me get this straight. You're saying that objective facts exist despite anyone's subjective perception of the issue? :P

 
Cap'n, your going to have to pen your question a little better than that. I am not sure what you are asking me in relation to what you've quoted me on.
To further explain on my end... two feet with an 12" diameter hole is sufficient for securing a pole of ten feet in height. Yet, if I dig every hole for a wooden fence going up a hill, where some poles are cut to six feet, some eight feet, and some ten feet, to account for keeping the line of the fence even, and I am digging all of them at 2 feet deep 12" wide, I am sort of using the laws of physics the same way I see pipes that are 7" long and 4" long using the same diameter draft hole.

There is a law being followed, but calculations are not being made to make each hole efficient for the task. Thus, a pipemaker that uses the same draft size no matter the stem length, shaft length or over all length is doing about the same amount of engineering I am using to dig holes for a fence.

 

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
10
great, so I have engineered a fence, ummm... an artistic fence. But, I thought that I had to believe something to be postmodern.
Maybe it's not a fence. Maybe that's just your "truth". Maybe it's an oppressive territorial patriarchal scheme to oppress poor people by not letting them share your resources.
Thank man, think.

 
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