Just one guy's opinion
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:rofl: FNG here don't get all the argument started with a cheapy briar,like 7 bucks no name at the B&M smoked it, liked it...started getting bad smokes, did some research discovered "oh gotta do rotations and such" bought a doc grabow from cvs the savoy model it's one of my favorites for after work. started using the pipes instead of nails, stated getting really rough smokes with alot of bite and wet by the end of the day, did some more research, oh if you smoke 5 pipes a day from the same briar it will hate you by the end of the day, cobs don't need to rest as much. in three months I'm up to 6 briars that I like for my morning/evening smokes while I'm having coffee or a nice rum and coke, a grab bag of smokeable MM seconds for work and running around(since they can smoke more times with less rest than my briars before goin crazy on me, a morning blend I like, and evening blend I like, and three or for blends to load into my pouch for while I'm running around. A seven dollar pipe from the B&M and one ounce of their three dollar an ounce house Aro blends...it really doesn't matter where you start from if you like the path you'll find the guides to help you stay on it :
: keep on smoking
oh and as far as the derailment thread runs thanks for the service guys from a former Air Force EW tech
: keep on smokingoh and as far as the derailment thread runs thanks for the service guys from a former Air Force EW tech
I've got 14 Country Gentlemen cobs and in my opinion it was money better spent than if I had to get just two "quality" briars at around $60 apiece, and certainly it is better value to me than one $120 pipe...
I prefer their look and performance over all other Missouri Meerschaums. In general, though, I have found cobs to be reliable performers which provide plenty of good smoking experiences and that is exactly what I seek from a pipe.
Personally, I don't think that one does a beginner a disservice by recommending corn cobs, because I think that they offer a great introduction to the pipe smoking experience; it may not be the same as smoking a briar, but as far as affordability and versatility and durability go, they are tough to beat.
I think the guitar analogy is slightly off base and that it is not helpful to think of cobs and briars and meerschaums as being the same "instrument". Yes, they are all pipes, but their "sound" and construction is so different that it is hard to mistake one for the other. It's like somebody slamming a banjo or mandolin or dulcimer because it doesn't sound like a guitar. They may be stringed instruments which play music, but is it fair to say one is worse than the other when they are so fundamentally different?
If I had to drop $80-100 on a pipe, I never would've started. I began with 2-3 different makes of cob, abused them during the learning process, chucked them out since I deemed they were beyond repair, and I've stuck with the Country Gentleman ever since...
I think that cobs do require a slight break in period, contrary to popular opinion, but it is quite short if you make a habit of smoking the same one for awhile. Their performance will increase.
I also think that tobacco selection is more important to a beginner than pipe selection; as long as you are smoking a halfway decent briar/meerschaum/cob, then you can enjoy pipe smoking - but if your tobacco is garbage to start out with, or a style you just plain dislike, then your smoke isn't going to amount to much either. A beginner needs variety so they can get an idea of their own tastes.
I see where cigrmaster is coming from and I respect that point of view but I don't accept it. I think that most people can determine where they stand on pipe smoking with an MM cob or Grabow. It may not be the pinnacle of their smoking experience, but I think it is a good honest start. I think the days of people just casually picking up pipe smoking are over - people usually have a reason, and it often begins with the internet so people getting into it today who are INTERESTED will be more aware of the pros and cons of each type...
Regarding the charges of reverse snobbery, well I think that is rubbish for most of us here. We all have our preferences and I don't see too many people jamming them down the throats of others. bigvan/philobeddoe, I do not see eye to eye with you gents on this matter at all because you tear down cobs since they don't suit your applications. Cobs suit mine better than the few briars I have tried, and I couldn't be happier with them - on a similar note, I couldn't care less what other people smoke so long as they enjoy the experience.
When my finances allow, I plan to get a high end meerschaum (because my reading on the matter has convinced me to go big or go home) and I also plan to get one or two good quality briars in the $100 range so I personally don't see myself as some hayseed reverse snob.
I am, however, somebody who thinks we place too much importance on pipe makers and hype and resultant high prices when it comes to pipes when actual smoker mechanics, user experience, and tobacco quality all have a greater total impact IMO.
(I know this is NOT what Harris was saying; in general, though, I think people get too stuck on the big names and they can often let it cloud their judgment when they have good/bad smokes.)
Pipe smoking is such an individual experience that there are no guarantees - one man's trash is another man's treasure!
I prefer their look and performance over all other Missouri Meerschaums. In general, though, I have found cobs to be reliable performers which provide plenty of good smoking experiences and that is exactly what I seek from a pipe.
Personally, I don't think that one does a beginner a disservice by recommending corn cobs, because I think that they offer a great introduction to the pipe smoking experience; it may not be the same as smoking a briar, but as far as affordability and versatility and durability go, they are tough to beat.
I think the guitar analogy is slightly off base and that it is not helpful to think of cobs and briars and meerschaums as being the same "instrument". Yes, they are all pipes, but their "sound" and construction is so different that it is hard to mistake one for the other. It's like somebody slamming a banjo or mandolin or dulcimer because it doesn't sound like a guitar. They may be stringed instruments which play music, but is it fair to say one is worse than the other when they are so fundamentally different?
If I had to drop $80-100 on a pipe, I never would've started. I began with 2-3 different makes of cob, abused them during the learning process, chucked them out since I deemed they were beyond repair, and I've stuck with the Country Gentleman ever since...
I think that cobs do require a slight break in period, contrary to popular opinion, but it is quite short if you make a habit of smoking the same one for awhile. Their performance will increase.
I also think that tobacco selection is more important to a beginner than pipe selection; as long as you are smoking a halfway decent briar/meerschaum/cob, then you can enjoy pipe smoking - but if your tobacco is garbage to start out with, or a style you just plain dislike, then your smoke isn't going to amount to much either. A beginner needs variety so they can get an idea of their own tastes.
I see where cigrmaster is coming from and I respect that point of view but I don't accept it. I think that most people can determine where they stand on pipe smoking with an MM cob or Grabow. It may not be the pinnacle of their smoking experience, but I think it is a good honest start. I think the days of people just casually picking up pipe smoking are over - people usually have a reason, and it often begins with the internet so people getting into it today who are INTERESTED will be more aware of the pros and cons of each type...
Regarding the charges of reverse snobbery, well I think that is rubbish for most of us here. We all have our preferences and I don't see too many people jamming them down the throats of others. bigvan/philobeddoe, I do not see eye to eye with you gents on this matter at all because you tear down cobs since they don't suit your applications. Cobs suit mine better than the few briars I have tried, and I couldn't be happier with them - on a similar note, I couldn't care less what other people smoke so long as they enjoy the experience.
When my finances allow, I plan to get a high end meerschaum (because my reading on the matter has convinced me to go big or go home) and I also plan to get one or two good quality briars in the $100 range so I personally don't see myself as some hayseed reverse snob.
I am, however, somebody who thinks we place too much importance on pipe makers and hype and resultant high prices when it comes to pipes when actual smoker mechanics, user experience, and tobacco quality all have a greater total impact IMO.
(I know this is NOT what Harris was saying; in general, though, I think people get too stuck on the big names and they can often let it cloud their judgment when they have good/bad smokes.)
Pipe smoking is such an individual experience that there are no guarantees - one man's trash is another man's treasure!
This is also a valid point. There are some folks who just won't start if they can't do it for $20 for pipe,tobacco, and cleaners at the drugstore (or wherever). They may well later move beyond that.
+1
This all comes down to the basic premise, "Smoke the best pipes and tobacco you can afford." If you are on a limited income, in a situation where it will be difficult to save money, then by all means start with less expensive pipes - but don't start with bad 'baccy!
A very intersting thread, that upon reading the title, I knew would elicit some passionate responses.
I'm in the "smoke the best pipe you can afford" group and for me, refurbished estates were that vehicle. A pipe has to appeal to me visually for me to embrace and enjoy smoking it. Case in point was my recent Rad Davis purchase. Rad is one of the premier pipe makers in the world and his creations are universally loved and championed by folks who spend a lot of money (to me) on a pipe. While the pipe was crafted magnificently, and smoked wonderfully, I was never drawn to it and it left my collection in a few weeks. Fortunately, I bought it cheap and the proceeds from that sale allowed me to get a British pipe with the classic styling that I love. I suppose that while I could financially make a $400 pipe investment I don't think that I ever would. There are too many other good, sub-$100 estate pipes out there to squander that money on one pipe.
GBD is a marque have has earned a number of spots on my rack. Pre-Cadogan era pipes are cheap on Ebay and with a little work, look and smoke wonderfully (equal to that Rad Davis). My average price on the 10 or so GBD's I own is around $40, with some as low as $25. They appeal to me on the rack and deliver on the smoke. To be able to acquire a $25 GBD that smokes like a $400 Rad Davis always makes me smile when I light one up.
I'm in the "smoke the best pipe you can afford" group and for me, refurbished estates were that vehicle. A pipe has to appeal to me visually for me to embrace and enjoy smoking it. Case in point was my recent Rad Davis purchase. Rad is one of the premier pipe makers in the world and his creations are universally loved and championed by folks who spend a lot of money (to me) on a pipe. While the pipe was crafted magnificently, and smoked wonderfully, I was never drawn to it and it left my collection in a few weeks. Fortunately, I bought it cheap and the proceeds from that sale allowed me to get a British pipe with the classic styling that I love. I suppose that while I could financially make a $400 pipe investment I don't think that I ever would. There are too many other good, sub-$100 estate pipes out there to squander that money on one pipe.
GBD is a marque have has earned a number of spots on my rack. Pre-Cadogan era pipes are cheap on Ebay and with a little work, look and smoke wonderfully (equal to that Rad Davis). My average price on the 10 or so GBD's I own is around $40, with some as low as $25. They appeal to me on the rack and deliver on the smoke. To be able to acquire a $25 GBD that smokes like a $400 Rad Davis always makes me smile when I light one up.
Maybe I agree with Harris on this one . . . maybe. I was just thinking back ten years ago, I bought a half-way decent briar (4-dot Brigham Sportsman) that I subsequently tried and didn't get into. Yet, I kept the pipe and the filters, lugging them all over the world, but not smoking it. Fast-forward to this year, I decided to try my briar once more. Had it been a cheap cob, maybe I would have thrown it out years ago and never had the impetus to try again (that's an alternate reality we cannot explore). In August of this year I smoked cheap Amphora because my corner store/head shop only had that. Although I smoked it and it was not good stuff, I enjoyed the experience anyway and I love the pipe, so I looked for better tobacco.
I have no idea what my point is. I just think that perhaps there is some truth to what Harris is saying. Maybe I made a kind of emotional bond with my briar through the years, I don't know.
I have no idea what my point is. I just think that perhaps there is some truth to what Harris is saying. Maybe I made a kind of emotional bond with my briar through the years, I don't know.
After all this discussion, I honestly think both arguments have their merits. So much depends on the person who is just getting started.
Did they smoke before? If yes, then odds are good they will stick with this hobby and should invest in a good briar.
Is $50 a lot of money to them? If yes, and they're anxious to get started, start with a cob.
When I started out, my finances had taken a serious hit due to our home being flooded. And when I first saw pipes running in the $70 range I was really taken aback. I had no idea they cost that much (now I laugh when I realize that $70 is considered entry level!)
I had serious second thoughts of even trying this hobby. The only reason I did invest in a briar was because I was a smoker off and on all of my life and so was reasonably sure I'd stick with it (had my first cigarette at age 10, smoking is in my blood).
But to each his own - a lot depends on the person getting started and their situation.
Did they smoke before? If yes, then odds are good they will stick with this hobby and should invest in a good briar.
Is $50 a lot of money to them? If yes, and they're anxious to get started, start with a cob.
When I started out, my finances had taken a serious hit due to our home being flooded. And when I first saw pipes running in the $70 range I was really taken aback. I had no idea they cost that much (now I laugh when I realize that $70 is considered entry level!)
I had serious second thoughts of even trying this hobby. The only reason I did invest in a briar was because I was a smoker off and on all of my life and so was reasonably sure I'd stick with it (had my first cigarette at age 10, smoking is in my blood).
But to each his own - a lot depends on the person getting started and their situation.
I agree with numbersix. The few times I've talked to newcomers I mention that they should buy a decent pipe that they can afford and wont feel bad about spending money on if they realize pipe smoking isn't for them. Then concentrate on tobacco. Theres simply no point in buying a $500 Dunhill or even a $100 Savinelli without even knowing what tobaccos you enjoy or if you even enjoy pipe smoking! Once you get a nice collection of tobacco then you can think about buying some high end pipes.
Someone earlier mentioned an analogy using guitars and I agree. About 15 years ago I used to hang out at a music store that a friend of mine owned. I can't even count how many kids would show up wanting to buy a Gibson Les Paul and a Marshall stack and didn't even know how to play. Thats stupid. My buddy would always recommend starting with something like a Fender Squire and a practice amp. If they enjoyed it and found they liked playing, then move up to the expensive stuff. I view pipes the same way.
Someone earlier mentioned an analogy using guitars and I agree. About 15 years ago I used to hang out at a music store that a friend of mine owned. I can't even count how many kids would show up wanting to buy a Gibson Les Paul and a Marshall stack and didn't even know how to play. Thats stupid. My buddy would always recommend starting with something like a Fender Squire and a practice amp. If they enjoyed it and found they liked playing, then move up to the expensive stuff. I view pipes the same way.
Smoke what you want, buy what you want, let the hair go with the hide,fantastic group of men, and women on this forum, Kevin I am not a suckholer, but thank you for a venue that has brought much enjoyment to me and others. The old cajun
There are several posts here that mention "high end pipes".
Harris suggested a $50 pipe.
FYI - that's not a "high end pipe" - not by any definition, even if you live in a cardboard box on the sidewalk.
Harris suggested a $50 pipe.
FYI - that's not a "high end pipe" - not by any definition, even if you live in a cardboard box on the sidewalk.
I totally disagree, cobs do not smoke hot or wet at all, I do have a quality briar, have had a couple of them and I like the cobs way more, plus they are not disposible pipes like you seem to make us believe, they have been known to last 30 years or longer! Not sure how it could be a disservice to a smoker, I am not new and 90% of my smoking for the last 2 years has been with cobs, even though I have had quality briars the entire time. I think they smoke better because they are very very open in the draw, much more than a briar can offer, if you pack it the right way, it is pure heaven, if they smoke hot or wet, your just plain doing it wrong. Corn cobs to me smoke cooler and drier, plus ones like the general or freehand just look plain cool.
I will continue to recomend them to all smokers as a pipe they should buy, they are not so expensive that it makes it so they can't afford briars, and I do not think it is a pipe just for new smokers or for more experianced ones going on trips (although definatley handy for that).
I will continue to recomend them to all smokers as a pipe they should buy, they are not so expensive that it makes it so they can't afford briars, and I do not think it is a pipe just for new smokers or for more experianced ones going on trips (although definatley handy for that).
All of those that are so very concerned with our new smoking brethren and the strength of this hobby should be praised! We should have a new signup sheet for new smokers so those that care so much about them can buy and send them the correct pipe they should be smoking $50.00 minimum of course.
I have to say, after reading all the responses and thinking over my own experiences, my opinion pretty much agrees with Harris 100%. It's certainly not a matter on snobbery by any means. I know lots of guys that enjoy cobs and I say more power to them for it. I personally, have never found them to be aesthetically pleasing or enjoyable to smoke and completely agree that had I started with them, I probably would have just given up and stuck with cigars only.
I've had the good fortune of introducing people to the hobby. I worked at a B&M part time in college and set quite a few guys up with their first pipe. Of course back then I didn't know as much as I do now but I think I gave them pretty sound advice and allowed them to make the decision on how much they were comfortable investing in. I was an hourly employee that had my dream job of working around tobacco so I didn't stand to make more money upselling a more expensive pipe to someone. Most opted for briar basket pipes that we typically had for $25-30 and majority of those guys (and a handful of ladies) didn't take long to come back in the door a few weeks later asking about Savinelli's or Petersons as an upgrade. I saw quite a few start with cobs as well and I can honestly, given my experience there, say that fewer of them ever came back. Maybe they stuck with the hobby and took their business online? I don't know for sure. I knew a few that moved on to briar and several even stuck with the cobs and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
Fast forward to today. I have several friends who have become intersted in pipes, one of whom smokes with me a few nights a week. His experience has been great and I got him started on a basic Savinelli. Like anyone else on a budget, he had concerns about spending too much but now has no regrets and is already itching to pick up his next briar. When we discussed options for a good first pipe, one of the things to consider is that a halfway decent briar is very easy to sell off as an estate with a little cleanup and you recover a percentage of the investment there should you choose not to stick with it. That might not be an option for everyone, some may not want to deal with reselling, but it minimizes the financial hit if someone decides the pipe is not for them.
Overall, I see valid points to both sides of the debate with this one. Cobs are very highly regarded by those who enjoy them and I see that as a great thing. On the flip side, I'm in the camp of those who just don't. Part of the experience of pipe smoking for me is the shape and feel of a nice briar. I don't get that at all from a cob. When someone asks me about pipe smoking and what I enjoy and if I think it's for them, I want to share that experience with them and hope they come to enjoy it as well. Based on my past experiences and interactions with new pipe smokers, while I know is only very very small sampling of the overall number of people out there trying pipes for the first time, I've seen more people starting out with briar sticking with the hobby and truly enjoying it over those who first experience the pipe with a cob.
Just another guys opinion.
I've had the good fortune of introducing people to the hobby. I worked at a B&M part time in college and set quite a few guys up with their first pipe. Of course back then I didn't know as much as I do now but I think I gave them pretty sound advice and allowed them to make the decision on how much they were comfortable investing in. I was an hourly employee that had my dream job of working around tobacco so I didn't stand to make more money upselling a more expensive pipe to someone. Most opted for briar basket pipes that we typically had for $25-30 and majority of those guys (and a handful of ladies) didn't take long to come back in the door a few weeks later asking about Savinelli's or Petersons as an upgrade. I saw quite a few start with cobs as well and I can honestly, given my experience there, say that fewer of them ever came back. Maybe they stuck with the hobby and took their business online? I don't know for sure. I knew a few that moved on to briar and several even stuck with the cobs and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
Fast forward to today. I have several friends who have become intersted in pipes, one of whom smokes with me a few nights a week. His experience has been great and I got him started on a basic Savinelli. Like anyone else on a budget, he had concerns about spending too much but now has no regrets and is already itching to pick up his next briar. When we discussed options for a good first pipe, one of the things to consider is that a halfway decent briar is very easy to sell off as an estate with a little cleanup and you recover a percentage of the investment there should you choose not to stick with it. That might not be an option for everyone, some may not want to deal with reselling, but it minimizes the financial hit if someone decides the pipe is not for them.
Overall, I see valid points to both sides of the debate with this one. Cobs are very highly regarded by those who enjoy them and I see that as a great thing. On the flip side, I'm in the camp of those who just don't. Part of the experience of pipe smoking for me is the shape and feel of a nice briar. I don't get that at all from a cob. When someone asks me about pipe smoking and what I enjoy and if I think it's for them, I want to share that experience with them and hope they come to enjoy it as well. Based on my past experiences and interactions with new pipe smokers, while I know is only very very small sampling of the overall number of people out there trying pipes for the first time, I've seen more people starting out with briar sticking with the hobby and truly enjoying it over those who first experience the pipe with a cob.
Just another guys opinion.
I am a newbie. When I started researching pipes (I think my generation tends to google/youtube/metacritic everything before we make our first purchase) I always wanted to know DIFFERENT peoples opinions. I was equally happy to read opposing view points. I'm a big boy. I can make up my own mind.
While I never posted a "Hey I'm new, what do I smoke?" thread (nothing wrong with those, but I tend to lurk) I read a ton of them. I think its great that different opinions can be expressed for the new people to decide. I wouldn't have kept coming back to the site if different points of view weren't able to be expressed politely.
This is a fantastic hobby where you can get entry level access with hours of enjoyment for very little investment. Further, it builds on itself. Every pipe, every tin, every puff, every tamp, you learn as you go.
I'm all for differing opinions. Especially when I ask for them.
While I never posted a "Hey I'm new, what do I smoke?" thread (nothing wrong with those, but I tend to lurk) I read a ton of them. I think its great that different opinions can be expressed for the new people to decide. I wouldn't have kept coming back to the site if different points of view weren't able to be expressed politely.
This is a fantastic hobby where you can get entry level access with hours of enjoyment for very little investment. Further, it builds on itself. Every pipe, every tin, every puff, every tamp, you learn as you go.
I'm all for differing opinions. Especially when I ask for them.
What cigrmaster was trying to do was lookout for the best interest of new pipe smokers, in order that they have the best possible experience smoking and therefore stay with pipe smoking. He was subsequently attacked for his efforts as some kind of briar snob. Myself and others have defended his opinions as valid, but were then lumped in as snobs. Here is my take on the difference between briar and cob....When I was a young boy and men still walked the streets smoking pipes, these men were generally well dressed and always smoking a briar, the only time I ever saw a corn cob pipe was on Hee Haw. The very idea of a corn cob pipe was seen as a marker of a yokel, all my life on television, if you wanted to brand someone as a yokel you dressed them in bib overalls, put a corn cob in they're mouth and a banjo in they're hands. As a young piper I wanted to be seen as debonair and stately so I picked up a briar Dr. Grabow at the local drug store, learned how to smoke it and never looked back. I'm not saying cobs are bad or unfit , but they are not now, nor have they ever been, the equal of the briar.
Smoke what you want, and feel free to disagree, this is a freeish county, but please don't attack someone who was only looking out for the best interests of new smokers.
Smoke what you want, and feel free to disagree, this is a freeish county, but please don't attack someone who was only looking out for the best interests of new smokers.
I love this discussion, lol. One thing I find is missing, however, is that no-one has mentioned pairing a newbie up with a good pipe and tobacco match. I like a burley, such as the Edgeworth Ready Rubbed Match, and an old M&M Washington that I got in a trade. Great smoke, in my opinion. If I were going to recommend a starter pipe, I would recommend a tobacco that would go well in it. Recommending Hamborger Veermaster and a new cob might not be the way to go. Just saying! I know a fellow who started with a moist vanilla cavendish and a corncob, and burned his mouth so bad that he never wanted a pipe again. I know another fellow who got a Peterson Churchwarden as a gift, and a pouch of Sterling tobacco's bargain blend, and hasn't put either down in a month. Mentoring is more than just recommending a pipe.
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