Just in from STG/MacBaren/Sutliff

[rakovsky]

That's very fitting for a personal blend made for a Catholic priest. Was it old enough to use Syrian Latakia? I've heard that often smelled like incense

Kramer's closed in 2017. The mylar packet that I got didn't say the year of production.

Syrian Latakia stopped being made around 2012-2014, with the Syrian Civil War in the background.
From what I've described smoking when discussing blends that I tried with people, they've told me that the smells that I describe as common in English blends that I've tried are likely from Cyprus Latakia rather than Syrian Latakia.

That is, I've had around 15 Lat-containing blends. Out of them, about 1/3 have a barnstall smell like Star of the East and another 1/3 have an old leather smell like Squadron Leader. Then the last 1/3 don't have either (potentially "stinky") smell, like Petersen's Standard Mixture. I'm hesitant to say "stinky" because people have different perceptions. But I'm doing my best to convey the specifics of this smell note. The few other pipe smokers I talked with said that all the blends that I named to them were using Cyprus Latakia.

They also made it sound as if that the smells that I was describing (barnstall and old leather) were the kind of thing to be expected from Cyprus Latakia. They said that Syrian Latakia was drastically more mild, mellow than Cyprus Latakia, which was stronger in smell. By comparison, "3 Oaks Syrian" is perhaps the blend that is most often described as incense-like. And indeed it has "Syrian" in the name. So that connection makes sense.

Regarding Kramer's Fr. Dempsey, here is my own short summary: "It had a bit musty side like a horse barn stall, but also a delicate side that reminded me maybe of Catholic incense."
To expand on this, personally I don't like the barnstall smell that is common in about 1/3 of Lats, and Fr. Dempsey did include that smell, so it leans me toward thinking that it wasn't Syrian. At least, if it was Syrian, then Syrian doesn't seem drastically different than Cyprus Latakia in that way.

But besides the barnstall smell there was also a delicate smell that reminded me of Lavender. It was a bit hard to describe, secondary, and it's possible that I am mentally misassociating it with Lavender and incense due to the priestly name of the blend.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Syrian Latakia stopped being made around 2012-2014,

Everything I've read says production stopped in the 1980s.

 

[samuelgawith01]

While this is bad news for you lot (Americans) it's not bad news for everyone. I just remembered that i've got 2 tins of limited edition HH Old Dark Fired Plug Cut in the cellar. They've gotta be worth a grand each. Easy! More probably.

I'm off to that Tinbids to make my fortune. That's generational wealth where I come from, lads.



View attachment 360287

I have a one pound brick,so there!

 

[samuelgawith01]

Smoking Samuel Gawith Brown No. 4 twist in this Former Oversized Apple.Finally found my pipe for smoking rope tobacco.

 

[RexHiemis]

For those that do not want to purchase from STG, I can understand the frustration, but in the grand scheme of things; do you think that's best for the industry you love? If the majority of pipe smokers had the same belief, and did the same thing, then what would the future hold for STG? Do you really want one of the largest suppliers of pipe tobacco to take a massive hit, and potentially do what other tobacco manufacturer's have had to do... close up shop. That would be devastating for the industry and our hobby. It's bad enough we've lost several manufacturer's already, we don't need to lose anymore. Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

Now, I know as well as others on this forum that realize; the percentage of pipe smokers that use online forums, and that are upset about STG, will not hurt their bottom line. The vast majority of pipe smokers typically stick to a few blends, and don't have 200 different blends in their tobacco cellars. Heck, most pipe smokers don't even have tobacco cellars; they just buy tobacco as they smoke through it. With that said, does it really make sense for a company the size of STG to carry 600 blends of tobacco when they only really sell 100 blends with regularity. It's not a smart business decision to have 500 other blends that don't really sell just to appease a very small percentage of pipe smokers. Down-sizing is a normal thing when companies are bought out buy other companies. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but boycotting a company because of such decision is absurd to me. Again, my opinion.

Something to remember as well, there are many blends on the market that are duplicates, and just branded under a different label. So while you enjoyed Sutliff brand X, you might find the same tobacco under STG brand Y. Also, the letter from STG at the beginning of this thread is for the American Market. There is still the possibility that your favorite tobacco will still be available in the European Market. If that's the case you might still be able to acquire said blend via a European B&M shop or online supplier. Sure, it might be more money, but I've seen many people paying $100+ dollars for a tin of tobacco off secondary sites. So, if you really need to have said blend or really want to try said blend, then you might still be able to; just at a higher price point and longer shipping time. I get that's not what we all want, but all is not lost. There are still a vast variety of tobacco blends on the market, and this may be the perfect time to go find that new favorite blend.

Your comment felt like a healing balm from Gilead, thank you.

 

[samuelgawith01]

Smoking Samuel Gawith Brown No. 4 twist in this Former Oversized Apple.Finally found my pipe for smoking rope tobacco.
View attachment 360982

Sorry,wrong thread!

 

[Beers 'N Briars]

Everything I've read says production stopped in the 1980s.

That matches my understanding. That production started slowing in the 70’s and basically came to a halt by the late 80’s. But stockpiles meant it was still in blends through some of the 90’s. I remember being able to find blends that still had it then, but I don’t remember it still being available by the early 2000’s.

 

[Peter Turbo]

This is a great read on Syrian Latakia

warehouse fire | Dutch Pipe Smoker

dutchpipesmoker.com

 

[sablebrush52]

Everything I've read says production stopped in the 1980s.

Actually, the early 2000's. There have been several bans. The "final" one was in 2009. I'm putting quotes on it because tobacco is currently being grown in Syria, though not for the making of Latakia.

 

[Speak Easy]

This is a great read on Syrian Latakia

warehouse fire | Dutch Pipe Smoker

dutchpipesmoker.com

Thanks, that was a good read.

 

[Homer]

I contacted one B&M shop in Germany and they said that they don’t have any official info about discontinuation of almost all MacBaren blends.
It’s weird that customers in USA know things that retailers in EU don’t know.

 

[Zamora]

Everything I've read says production stopped in the 1980s.

I've seen contradicting reports but if it was the 80s there must've been a massive stockpile that lasted into the 2000s. I know GLP used to have a few blends that had Syrian Lat, then there's Frog Morton Across The Pond which was discontinued years before McC closed because it was no longer available making it the ultimate Unobtanium Tobacco

Actually, the early 2000's. There have been several bans. The "final" one was in 2009. I'm putting quotes on it because tobacco is currently being grown in Syria, though not for the making of Latakia.

Thought so. There's been a lot of wishful thinking that the ouster of Assad might result in it making a comeback, but it's just not possible anymore. I'm sure most of the Syrian tobacco is going to become cigarettes, but we some if it might trickle down to pipe tobacco and there could be some interesting developments. I'm just grateful we have Cyprian Latakia.

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

For those that do not want to purchase from STG, I can understand the frustration, but in the grand scheme of things; do you think that's best for the industry you love? If the majority of pipe smokers had the same belief, and did the same thing, then what would the future hold for STG? Do you really want one of the largest suppliers of pipe tobacco to take a massive hit, and potentially do what other tobacco manufacturer's have had to do... close up shop. That would be devastating for the industry and our hobby. It's bad enough we've lost several manufacturer's already, we don't need to lose anymore. Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

Now, I know as well as others on this forum that realize; the percentage of pipe smokers that use online forums, and that are upset about STG, will not hurt their bottom line. The vast majority of pipe smokers typically stick to a few blends, and don't have 200 different blends in their tobacco cellars. Heck, most pipe smokers don't even have tobacco cellars; they just buy tobacco as they smoke through it. With that said, does it really make sense for a company the size of STG to carry 600 blends of tobacco when they only really sell 100 blends with regularity. It's not a smart business decision to have 500 other blends that don't really sell just to appease a very small percentage of pipe smokers. Down-sizing is a normal thing when companies are bought out buy other companies. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but boycotting a company because of such decision is absurd to me. Again, my opinion.

Something to remember as well, there are many blends on the market that are duplicates, and just branded under a different label. So while you enjoyed Sutliff brand X, you might find the same tobacco under STG brand Y. Also, the letter from STG at the beginning of this thread is for the American Market. There is still the possibility that your favorite tobacco will still be available in the European Market. If that's the case you might still be able to acquire said blend via a European B&M shop or online supplier. Sure, it might be more money, but I've seen many people paying $100+ dollars for a tin of tobacco off secondary sites. So, if you really need to have said blend or really want to try said blend, then you might still be able to; just at a higher price point and longer shipping time. I get that's not what we all want, but all is not lost. There are still a vast variety of tobacco blends on the market, and this may be the perfect time to go find that new favorite blend.

This ^^

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

Yet, I have been told that Barens HH line or other Barens tinned are only for export not seen in Sweden or Denmark, and as of now, in Finland there is only one of the Barens remaining ,the infamous Vanilla cream , not long ago,distributer announced discontinuation of importing all sorts of Amphoras,

 

[sablebrush52]

I've seen contradicting reports but if it was the 80s there must've been a massive stockpile that lasted into the 2000s. I know GLP used to have a few blends that had Syrian Lat, then there's Frog Morton Across The Pond which was discontinued years before McC closed because it was no longer available making it the ultimate Unobtanium Tobacco

Thought so. There's been a lot of wishful thinking that the ouster of Assad might result in it making a comeback, but it's just not possible anymore. I'm sure most of the Syrian tobacco is going to become cigarettes, but we some if it might trickle down to pipe tobacco and there could be some interesting developments. I'm just grateful we have Cyprian Latakia.

Evidently, some outstanding Latakia is being made in Uganda. I just received a private club mixture of Orange Virginias, orientals, and this Latakia and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

People will find sources for tobaccos in unexpected places and use them to create blends, while others will bemoan the loss of their usual sources and struggle.

There's painful change, but there are also possibilities.

 

[sablebrush52]

Evidently, some outstanding Latakia is being made in Uganda. I just received a private club mixture of Orange Virginias, orientals, and this Latakia and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

People will find sources for tobaccos in unexpected places and use them to create blends, while others will bemoan the loss of their usual sources and struggle.

There's painful change, but there are also possibilities.

I should add that none of this is sourced from STG.

 

[lordofthepiperings]

For those that do not want to purchase from STG, I can understand the frustration, but in the grand scheme of things; do you think that's best for the industry you love? If the majority of pipe smokers had the same belief, and did the same thing, then what would the future hold for STG? Do you really want one of the largest suppliers of pipe tobacco to take a massive hit, and potentially do what other tobacco manufacturer's have had to do... close up shop. That would be devastating for the industry and our hobby. It's bad enough we've lost several manufacturer's already, we don't need to lose anymore. Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

Personally I don’t care what happens to STG as a result of this. I’m only buying C&D/Pease blends going forward. If STG closes down pipe tobacco production or goes bankrupt I’ll still be able to get C&D/Pease blends.

I’m sure STG won’t miss my 30-50 tins a year I purchased of Escudo, Capstan, and Three Nuns just like I won’t miss those blends once I’ve depleted my cellar of them.

 

[Zamora]

Evidently, some outstanding Latakia is being made in Uganda. I just received a private club mixture of Orange Virginias, orientals, and this Latakia and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

People will find sources for tobaccos in unexpected places and use them to create blends, while others will bemoan the loss of their usual sources and struggle.

There's painful change, but there are also possibilities.

Wow that's a fascinating development. That might be very different from the others and be a genuine alternative and not a substitute. East Africa has been producing Virginias and Burleys for a long time mostly for cigarettes but also pipes so it's not surprising they'd diversify.

Personally I think Nicaragua has a lot of potential, they completely revolutionized cigars and while the skills in production are very different I'm sure on the growing side it would be easy to adapt. Even if they just grew burley and VA I'm sure the terroir would give it a different profile. Then there's the Dominican Republic, historically it was a pipe culture and they have a variety that's very rare now. I've heard the current Dominican produced PA is a shadow of past iterations but at least it gives precedence and I'm sure the drop in quality is because of corner cutting which is why it moved in the first place.

I contacted one B&M shop in Germany and they said that they don’t have any official info about discontinuation of almost all MacBaren blends.
It’s weird that customers in USA know things that retailers in EU don’t know.

I believe the announcement only covers what's produced in the US factories. From what I understand they intend for the Danish Mac B factory to close its doors in 2027, but that doesn't mean there won't be stuff discontinued in the years leading up to it.

I should add that none of this is sourced from STG.

I know STG does have some operations in Africa but I certainly wouldn't expect them to do that sort of innovation.

 

[WirelessSmoke]

Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

In this particular case the whole boycott thing doesn't make sense to me either. The retailers I buy from are not likely to boycott STG, so why should I? Small B&M blenders will surely be disrupted but I don't think they'll be pulling 1Q from their lineup anytime soon either. If one really feels that passionate about the situation, then why stop at just boycotting STG products? Why not boycott the retailers that keep doing business with them as well? It just doesn't make sense to me. If STG were to fail tomorrow many retailers that profit off of their products might end up failing in the end too. Having even less retailers to buy from would make things worse in my opinion. Just my take on a lousy situation.

 

[Zamora]

In this particular case the whole boycott thing doesn't make sense to me either. The retailers I buy from are not likely to boycott STG, so why should I? Small B&M blenders will surely be disrupted but I don't think they'll be pulling 1Q from their lineup anytime soon either. If one really feels that passionate about the situation, then why stop at just boycotting STG products? Why not boycott the retailers that keep doing business with them as well? It just doesn't make sense to me. If STG were to fail tomorrow many retailers that profit off of their products might end up failing in the end too. Having even less retailers to buy from would make things worse in my opinion. Just my take on a lousy situation.

I never thought about it that way but you're right. The B&Ms they screwed over will continue to business with them, so why shouldn't we? I haven't seen anybody say they want to boycott K&K even though they use STG components, I'd be very upset if Rattray's folded because I love Marlin Flake and intend to try more from them. If STG decides to sponsor pipe events like Sutliff would people boycott those events? Why stop there? Why not boycott anybody involved? We'd have nothing left