Just in from STG/MacBaren/Sutliff

[Chasing Embers]

good business

There's really no good business, just business. It's always a financial risk for the company, employees, and customers. Placing all eggs in one basket for any of the three is highly risky especially in a market as volatile and unpredictable as tobacco.

 

[BriarBrook]

N/a

 

[MisterBadger]

Greedy bastards, I hope karma is real.

It is.
And there is a special pit in Hell reserved for company directors who listen only to accountants, value only big numbers on spreadsheets, buoyant share values, and big dividends plus salary bonuses.
Selah.

 

[MisterBadger]

There's really no good business, just business. It's always a financial risk for the company, employees, and customers. Placing all eggs in one basket for any of the three is highly risky especially in a market as volatile and unpredictable as tobacco.

I've seen good business work. I ran one. And I've seen bad business work too, with bad feeling. The latter, believe me, is optional. It's all down to what you value in life.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Japan is going to take it in the shorts. A lot of their blends are made by MacBaren. Goodbye Momoyama.

Wasn’t the list posted only relating to blends distributed to US? So Momoyama may live on, just made by STG. Oh wait…yea, goodbye Momoyama

 

[lazar]

So no more "questions for Leonard"? Curious why both those threads got shut down.

 

[LeafErikson]

Wow STG sucks. I'm just switching to GL Pease.

My initial reaction was to say “I am no longer purchasing from STG” once I heard about the potential destruction of equipment at the Sutliff/Mac Baren facilities, that is quite possibly irreplaceable, just to ensure others wouldn’t have access to said equipment.

After some thought though, how would that help the situation? Cutting off the largest pipe tobacco company at the knees would likely have catastrophic ramifications for all other pipe tobacco companies, blenders, and farmers across the globe. Cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face as it were. I will continue to purchase products from STG and will just smoke what I enjoy. I won’t try to convince you of how to spend your hard earned money, but I think refusing to purchase from STG, especially if they already make blends you actually enjoy, could have negative ramifications on such a tenuous marketplace. I will continue smoking my SWR Aromatic and Orlik Golden Sliced, both made by STG.

 

[woodsroad]

So no more "questions for Leonard"? Curious why both those threads got shut down.

Really?
Because those threads turned into a shitshow of wild-assed whining by uninformed luddites, that's why.
If this post offends you, then yes, I'm talking about you.

Jesus Christ in a chicken basket, folks, it's only pipe tobacco. If (inevitable) change negatively effects you so deeply, then you really need to seek some qualified counseling. You deserve to be happy in life, you really do.

 

[rakovsky]

That doesn't surprise me. I was recently thinking it's funny people hate how the current batch of STG tastes like vinegar but really miss that McC vinegar note. I'm almost tempted to go out and buy a pouch to taste for myself. I've noticed people are a lot nicer to Lakelands lately too and I think it's because they aren't under STG.

The best thing for me about Sutliff was how available they made basic leaf and discontinued blends in the form of MATCHes.

Pipers smoke lots of blends with Latakia in it, but how many pipe smokers have ever tried pure Latakia? I only did on two occasions: Once I picked all the black specks out of an English house blend that used Latakia. Another time a pipe maker gave me a bowl sample from his bag of pure Sutliff Latakia.

I also got a desire to try two famous blends: Edgeworth RR and Revelation. The US or a US diplomat gifted Stalin or the USSR Edgeworth RR. Plus, the Linkman company used to pre-smoke their Dr. Grabow pipes with Edgeworth RR. Einstein's favorite blend was Revelation. But both these blends in their original form were discontinued. Sutliff made a MATCH for both, and it was a nice experience trying both Sutliff MATCHes. Reviewers said that Sutliff's RR MATCH was very close to Larus Brothers' original, about as close as Lane's later "Edgeworth RR" version that Lane's meant to be a continuance of Edgeworth RR.

Another famous blend that Sutliff made a MATCH for was "Walnut", named after Walnut Street in Philadelphia. It's one of the iconic longstanding blends that went back to the 19th century.

 

[LeafErikson]

Really?
Because those threads turned into a shitshow of wild-assed whining by uninformed luddites, that's why.
If this post offends you, then yes, I'm talking about you.

Jesus Christ in a chicken basket, folks, it's only pipe tobacco. If (inevitable) change negatively effects you so deeply, then you really need to seek some qualified counseling. You deserve to be happy in life, you really do.

But I want access to 800 blends! And I want to only smoke one bowl a day and each day I want a different blend! Meaning I’ll smoke 1 oz of each blend out of the 800 every 20 years! This isn’t fair!

 

[K.E. Powell]

So no more "questions for Leonard"? Curious why both those threads got shut down.

If I had to hazard a guess, it is because there are already a handful of threads where Leonard is being asked questions, and has been replying to a good deal of them. Likewise, if one wants to ask him a question, they can just send him a PM. Finally, some of the threads focused on the Sutliff ordeal quickly get derailed or even become outright vitriolic.

But more than that? This is a done deal, folks. What more could be answered? Sutliff/MacBaren had a portfolio of nearly 988 different blends, and roughly a dozen or so will survive. We know which ones, and we know production on the others is ending immediately.

"Things without remedy / Should be without regard --- what's done is done."

 

[jpberg]

So no more "questions for Leonard"? Curious why both those threads got shut down.

If you’re wondering why those threads got shut down, well, shit, there’s other problems that need to be addressed first.

 

[damacene]

My initial reaction was to say “I am no longer purchasing from STG” once I heard about the potential destruction of equipment at the Sutliff/Mac Baren facilities, that is quite possibly irreplaceable, just to ensure others wouldn’t have access to said equipment.

After some thought though, how would that help the situation? Cutting off the largest pipe tobacco company at the knees would likely have catastrophic ramifications for all other pipe tobacco companies, blenders, and farmers across the globe. Cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face as it were. I will continue to purchase products from STG and will just smoke what I enjoy. I won’t try to convince you of how to spend your hard earned money, but I think refusing to purchase from STG, especially if they already make blends you actually enjoy, could have negative ramifications on such a tenuous marketplace. I will continue smoking my SWR Aromatic and Orlik Golden Sliced, both made by STG.

That's a fair take, but since I heard the news I've acquired enough Match 965, Seattle Evening, Hood Canal, and Potlatch to last me several decades of smoking. If I do buy any blends going forward it will be Gaslight and Charing Cross. Probably Carolina red flake with Perique too when that comes out. I used to love Dunhill/Peterson 965 but honestly I have no interest in supporting STG any more. They suck, and I'd rather give my money to the Italians and Greg Pease.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

For those that do not want to purchase from STG, I can understand the frustration, but in the grand scheme of things; do you think that's best for the industry you love? If the majority of pipe smokers had the same belief, and did the same thing, then what would the future hold for STG? Do you really want one of the largest suppliers of pipe tobacco to take a massive hit, and potentially do what other tobacco manufacturer's have had to do... close up shop. That would be devastating for the industry and our hobby. It's bad enough we've lost several manufacturer's already, we don't need to lose anymore. Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

Now, I know as well as others on this forum that realize; the percentage of pipe smokers that use online forums, and that are upset about STG, will not hurt their bottom line. The vast majority of pipe smokers typically stick to a few blends, and don't have 200 different blends in their tobacco cellars. Heck, most pipe smokers don't even have tobacco cellars; they just buy tobacco as they smoke through it. With that said, does it really make sense for a company the size of STG to carry 600 blends of tobacco when they only really sell 100 blends with regularity. It's not a smart business decision to have 500 other blends that don't really sell just to appease a very small percentage of pipe smokers. Down-sizing is a normal thing when companies are bought out buy other companies. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but boycotting a company because of such decision is absurd to me. Again, my opinion.

Something to remember as well, there are many blends on the market that are duplicates, and just branded under a different label. So while you enjoyed Sutliff brand X, you might find the same tobacco under STG brand Y. Also, the letter from STG at the beginning of this thread is for the American Market. There is still the possibility that your favorite tobacco will still be available in the European Market. If that's the case you might still be able to acquire said blend via a European B&M shop or online supplier. Sure, it might be more money, but I've seen many people paying $100+ dollars for a tin of tobacco off secondary sites. So, if you really need to have said blend or really want to try said blend, then you might still be able to; just at a higher price point and longer shipping time. I get that's not what we all want, but all is not lost. There are still a vast variety of tobacco blends on the market, and this may be the perfect time to go find that new favorite blend.

 

[didimauw]

Christ the loss of the HH line is awful

Old dark fired, and burley flake were some of my favorites. But they were already pushing the price limit for me anyways.

 

[Scottmi]

Only 71% ! Here in Washington state we get 100% excise taxes on pipe tobacco. What I wouldn’t give for 71%

...and we still have it 'good' compared to Canada, Hawaii, and our antipodean friends.

 

[Zamora]

The best thing for me about Sutliff was how available they made basic leaf and discontinued blends in the form of MATCHes.

Pipers smoke lots of blends with Latakia in it, but how many pipe smokers have ever tried pure Latakia? I only did on two occasions: Once I picked all the black specks out of an English house blend that used Latakia. Another time a pipe maker gave me a bowl sample from his bag of pure Sutliff Latakia.

I also got a desire to try two famous blends: Edgeworth RR and Revelation. The US or a US diplomat gifted Stalin or the USSR Edgeworth RR. Plus, the Linkman company used to pre-smoke their Dr. Grabow pipes with Edgeworth RR. Einstein's favorite blend was Revelation. But both these blends in their original form were discontinued. Sutliff made a MATCH for both, and it was a nice experience trying both Sutliff MATCHes. Reviewers said that Sutliff's RR MATCH was very close to Larus Brothers' original, about as close as Lane's later "Edgeworth RR" version that Lane's meant to be a continuance of Edgeworth RR.

Another famous blend that Sutliff made a MATCH for was "Walnut", named after Walnut Street in Philadelphia. It's one of the iconic longstanding blends that went back to the 19th century.

Yep and Walnut was Oppenheimer's favorite. The loss of all the match blends is one of the biggest tragedies, STG clearly cares nothing about preserving anything. Sutliff was able to keep the Kramer's house blends alive for years after Kramer's closed their doors, now they're going away for good. Also Hearth & Home's whole thing was recreating classic blends, ironic how Fusilier's Ration was made to be a Bengal Slices replica now both are gone.

 

[Scottmi]

Is Wessex hit by this Sutliff/Mac Baren debacle??

some already made by STG, and other by Kopp, and others in "germany" (Planta?/MB) so... hopefully we will see MORE of at least some of their blends with all the new unpurposed leaf the world will be swimming in, eh?

 

[Zamora]

For those that do not want to purchase from STG, I can understand the frustration, but in the grand scheme of things; do you think that's best for the industry you love? If the majority of pipe smokers had the same belief, and did the same thing, then what would the future hold for STG? Do you really want one of the largest suppliers of pipe tobacco to take a massive hit, and potentially do what other tobacco manufacturer's have had to do... close up shop. That would be devastating for the industry and our hobby. It's bad enough we've lost several manufacturer's already, we don't need to lose anymore. Boycotting a business because you're upset at a business decision they made seems absurd to me. My opinion of course.

Now, I know as well as others on this forum that realize; the percentage of pipe smokers that use online forums, and that are upset about STG, will not hurt their bottom line. The vast majority of pipe smokers typically stick to a few blends, and don't have 200 different blends in their tobacco cellars. Heck, most pipe smokers don't even have tobacco cellars; they just buy tobacco as they smoke through it. With that said, does it really make sense for a company the size of STG to carry 600 blends of tobacco when they only really sell 100 blends with regularity. It's not a smart business decision to have 500 other blends that don't really sell just to appease a very small percentage of pipe smokers. Down-sizing is a normal thing when companies are bought out buy other companies. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but boycotting a company because of such decision is absurd to me. Again, my opinion.

Something to remember as well, there are many blends on the market that are duplicates, and just branded under a different label. So while you enjoyed Sutliff brand X, you might find the same tobacco under STG brand Y. Also, the letter from STG at the beginning of this thread is for the American Market. There is still the possibility that your favorite tobacco will still be available in the European Market. If that's the case you might still be able to acquire said blend via a European B&M shop or online supplier. Sure, it might be more money, but I've seen many people paying $100+ dollars for a tin of tobacco off secondary sites. So, if you really need to have said blend or really want to try said blend, then you might still be able to; just at a higher price point and longer shipping time. I get that's not what we all want, but all is not lost. There are still a vast variety of tobacco blends on the market, and this may be the perfect time to go find that new favorite blend.

Yeah I have no intention of boycotting STG, sure they're now at the bottom of my priority for things to try but I'll continue buying the stuff I know I enjoy from them. I think their business decisions are shitty but I still sometimes drink Coca Cola products despite them doing cartoonishly evil shit like hiring cartels for union busting. The way I see the only thing boycotting STG could possibly do is make them discontinue even more blends and possibly cost more people their jobs, it's not like they had no idea there would be backlash to them shutting down Sutliff and MacB.

...and we still have it 'good' compared to Canada, Hawaii, and our antipodean friends.

Exactly, and our situation with cigars is actually really good with a tax cap at 65 cents a stick and legal online sales. Yet despite that and our astronomical pipe tobacco taxes you still get more bang for your buck with pipe tobacco.

 

[Scottmi]

It's interesting that Wessex Curly Block is produced by STG. That is also clear from the uncut coin format. It is essentially the same form (not blend) as Escudo or Navy Rolls before being sliced. STG is the only factory with the equipment to make that size roll. The Mac Baren roll cakes were smaller.

But it also raises the question--if STG could make a small batch of Wessex Curly Block on a contact basis why not other contract blends? The answer might be that the Wessex is indeed the same as some other tinned blend and we just haven't figured it out.

Does anybody know what's going on with Per Jensen? Sutliff was so good to him but I can't imagine in a million years STG would dream of authorizing something like Birds of a Feather let alone Pipe Force

good interview with Per re this.. english/interview starts at 10 min in..